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Author Topic: Shock & Awe Layout  (Read 2929 times)

MegaMav

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Shock & Awe Layout
« on: November 24, 2006, 08:24:19 AM »
Help me out here...

im not really familiar with the vanguard core, but i have seen it in action, and i was very impressed.

My stats:
PAP: 4 3/4" over 3/8" up
Revs: Medium
Axis: ~20° to ~50°

I was thinking Pin to PAP 4 3/4" under bridge, MB out 45°

I've been wanting to try this layout on Brunswick Asymmetrics.
But ive heard the Shock & Awe is a completely different animal.

I have 2 absolute infernos in my profile layed out leverage, in 2 different ways.

I'd like a different look out of the Shock & Awe, an earlier even arc look.

The Absolute I use right now is the first one in my profile, it gets through the heads, hits the midlane, rolls up and arcs hard.

The Shock & Awe, I'd like to play a little deeper but not over react off the dry.

Deep for me is about inbetween 4th and 3rd arrow.
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USBC Certified Bowler
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Edited on 11/24/2006 5:20 PM
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BallsDeep

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2006, 10:01:57 AM »
Thats not a bad idea.  Remember though that the Vanguard is extremely strong, and will pick up a roll quickly.  Drilled the same as a Vapor, a S&A will be earlier, more angular and more overall hook.  I've also noticed that the Zone Asym series creates alot of midlane and a even rolling breakpoint.  The S&A has a tendency to face up a bit more than that at the breakpoint.  Definatly for playing inside, I much prefer the vanguard, due to this different backend motion.
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MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2006, 01:47:56 PM »
got it in today, im going to go with the layout in my original post.

thanks go out to Keith Spear @ bowlingball.com

I got everything I asked for, 16.1 Lbs. | 2.25" Pin | 2.5 Oz. Top Weight.

$35 shipped, I feel like im stealing.
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BallsDeep

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2006, 01:59:01 PM »
I figure that that layout may work well for you due to the lower pin position.  Some people shy from it on Vanguard balls because the Vanguard is so strong, but especially for their pearl releases, its nt that bad of a way to cut it.  You certainly should expect more backend than anything you've seen with the Asym series though.
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MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 02:08:23 PM »
I figured, why not give it a shot @ $35 shipped.

I've been wanting a Vapor Zone since it came out.

I love my absolute inferno, and the activator+ coverstock.

Based on what you're saying, its a Vapor Zone + 1 step in sharpness.

With the layout, I figured that with the Pin position, I could cut down the flare a bit, keeping out of "roll out" danger and smoothing it out a touch, yet keep a strong reaction on the backend with the MB.

I plan on playing a 17 to 10 swing with this ball.

Edited on 11/27/2006 3:00 PM
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SlowHand

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 02:18:45 PM »
MegaMav,

You might want to go to Mo's site (Morich) and run your stats through their website and let them suggest a layout for you. I hear it's quite good for that.

I am basing my response to this because I hear drilling these (Vanguard core) is an art. Then see how their recommendation checks with your desire and go from there. I'd hate to see you drill it and not get what your wanting it to do...you know what I mean? As in a $35 door stop. Hey 35 isn't much but it's still a ball, and a good one at that from what I hear. Don't mess it up by risking a bad drilling... Just my 2 cents worth.
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Edited on 11/27/2006 3:10 PM
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MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 04:24:12 PM »
i submitted my request to morichbowling.com
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MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 04:49:20 PM »
I got a response, but there is no way in hell im putting the pin IN the bridge.


Hi Eric,

Thanks for taking the time to visit our web site and for the question!

Based on the information that you have provided, we would suggest the following layout
for a Shock & Awe, with regards to what the ball was designed to do:

Pin to PAP distance = 4 1/2"
Mass Bias to PAP distance = 4 7/8"
Pin height above the midline of the grip = 2 1/2"

Best Regards,
Technical Services Department
MoRich Enterprises, Inc.
P: 1-877-530-0324
F: 1-804-550-3693

*******************************************************************************
DD_Ball: Shock And Awe
Middle_Finger_Span: 5
Ring_Finger_Span: 4 15/16
RB_ArcLength: 4
RB_InitAxis: 2
RB_Speed: 3
RB_Oil: 3
RB_Blend: 2
RB_CarryDown: 2
RB_Flare: 5

Question_Contents:

4 Step Approach Bowler
Stroker style but good revs, like to play straighter.
PAP 4 3/4" Over 3/8" Up

Looking for a comma type of reaction out of this ball, I was thinking 4 3/4" Pin to PAP (under bridge) with MB at 45° to achieve this.

Anticipating this ball to be a "go-to" ball for medium house shot or tournament christmas tree patterns.

usually my ball speed is around 15-16 MPH at the deck.

Ball reaction could be described as above average, revs/speed match well. Im a versitle player, comfort area is between releasing at boards 7-17 and break point at boards 5-12.

I can also modify my axis rotation from 20° to about 50°, to smooth or sharpen my breakpoint.

"Parker Bohn III" type of bowler.

Thanks.
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Slick300

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 09:38:56 PM »
Hello Mega Mav,

     I have had some experiences with Morich balls and if thats what the tech staff has suggested go with it they are very knowledgeable and are excellent in tuning reactions for their equipment based on the specs of the bowler. My friend just this evening used his shock and awe for the first time he throws it harder than you thus the shorter pin to pap distance but it was a 3 1/2 by 5 1/2 with a pin height of 2 1/2 this put the pin just above the ring it allowed him to get away from the toast into the wet and roll and turn over it was very contolled and continuous in the pocket to the tune of 289. this layout gave him room left and right. Some thing that he didn`t have until changing balls. He also has and is drilling more Morich products as will I and he uses one of Mo`s reps to aid him in layouts and surfaces in building his aresenal and he has yet to steer us wrong. His name is Traumabill he has posted here before If you have any questions you can pm him or put a post he monitors the site.
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Ray Lathrop
Bsuproshops.com
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Raymond Lathrop
Better Bowling Concepts

MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2006, 10:08:16 PM »
thanks for the input, if you look, my span is 5", so 2.5" above the midline for me is apparently much different than your friend's.

i appreciate you insight, i think im going to weigh all my options before this thing gets drilled.
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Slick300

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 10:36:06 PM »
Hello Mega Mav,
   I just layed out the layout on a ball here at home that they gave you on the web site. It puts the pin in a posistion where you would be drilling out part of the pin if you are comfortable with the suggested layout shape you can either raise the pin above the fingers to have a shorter transistion more angular or below the fingers longer transistion and a slightly earlier roll. In degree teminology the layout they suggested is a 60 degree layout give or take a degree.
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Ray Lathrop
Bsuproshops.com
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Raymond Lathrop
Better Bowling Concepts

MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 10:47:36 PM »
Funny you say that, I was just moving lines around as well.

I got 60 degrees as well, with the Pin at 4 1/2" to PAP

what is the difference in reaction from:

60 degrees to 45 degrees?

or

4 3/4" MB to PAP and 3 1/2" MB to PAP?

thanks for taking the time, you're very helpful, and your efforts are appreciated.
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Slick300

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2006, 05:35:42 AM »
Mega Mav the 45 will be strong of the breakpoint and my not give you the ability to stay with the ball long as the condition breaks down. The 60 allows you to get the more rolling continuous finsh and predictibily. Picture a ball you may have layed out in a 75 and a similiar ball you layed out in a 45. And funny as it sounds 60 is somewhere in the middle I am not able to see what those reactions are without seeing you bowl but you will be able to get an idea. This layout will give you a smoother reaction off the breakpoint and the ball from my experiences watching it last night will hit and like I said it gave my friend some room on the lane.
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Ray Lathrop
Bsuproshops.com
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Raymond Lathrop
Better Bowling Concepts

MegaMav

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2006, 09:40:50 AM »
great!

thanks for your help!
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Traumabill

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Re: Shock & Awe Layout
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2006, 10:45:59 AM »
Hey Mav,

Ray was pretty much dead on except for my pin is 3.5 above the midline on the S & A. The 45 degree you suggest will definitely be too strong off the breakpoint. A 60 degree will give you more of what you're looking for.  75 degree might not be early enough.  Another option would be to put your pin beside ring, giving you the same pin height, and leave the MB/PAP the same.  Probably end up being a 4 - 4 1/4 x 4 7/8mb x 2.1/2.  It's been my experience with Mo's stuff that PIN/PAP distance has some wiggle room (not as sensitive) from 3 3/8 to 4.5 as compared to MB/PAP distance.  ANY of the three options would be fine.    
I'm pretty sure Fred Carroll was the one who responded to your request.  He's very good.  Ray and I go see Mike Luongo (Mo's East Coast rep) for coaching and layouts.  Fred and Mike are top notch with regards to Mo's equipment/core knowledge.

Hope this helps and doesn't muddy things....


Bill Daley
Bowling Services Unlimited
www.bsuproshops.com
Vise Inserts Staff
www.viseinserts.com

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