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Author Topic: Super Symettrical Layout?  (Read 2501 times)

Dyno-Joe

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Super Symettrical Layout?
« on: October 08, 2005, 01:35:39 PM »
I was told of the S.S. layout at a local pro shop. I can't remember exactly the layout, but what the guy said is that I might want to look into using that layout. My specs are PAP: 4 7/8 right, 1 1/2 up, RPM: 420. I was wanting this maybe for league because how the guy explained it to me is it may be a little less forgiving on a sport condition. I have a TA in the shop, going to order a Sahara and TSA. Just wanting to learn more about this layout.
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2005, 10:02:52 AM »
quote:
And....about the smart A-$-$ thing,  Hmmm, for some reason I am not offended.  
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Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"


good...I forgot the or ...I don't talk to you all the time Jason so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on your comment to charlest ....it seemed with the BOLD comments you were indeed being a smarta-$-$ but I wasn't totally sure......
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JEFF
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anotherwindup

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2005, 10:19:37 AM »
HMB = High Mass Bias
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Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"
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Nollster

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2005, 10:33:05 AM »
DW has a WMB (I think!) on eBay with what he called the super symmetrical layout.  Had the pin below/right of ring and the MB below the thumb, I believe.....Sorry -- don't have the link.....
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Nollster

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Jeffrevs

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2005, 12:07:10 PM »
quote:
HMB = High Mass Bias
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Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"


depending on the amount of asymetry in the core ...

a strong mass bias ball has a fourth migration to the core that a symetrical ball doesn't have which makes it do the things it does,...flare differnently,etc....and which does NOT make it...."hookatyourtoe,..veryweakcoreposition"....blah blah, etc, etc.....

I'll have King of the Mill come on here to clarify more....be ready to get your notebook out. he's full of info.....and YES, the info above is from him translated by me,.....so don't ask .....he's working now and may log on later to "clarify" .....hope it helps in the mean time
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
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DP3

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2005, 01:47:22 PM »
I have a friend who is a student of Mo's and when I saw one of his Weapons with the "Super Symmetrical Layout" it had the pin about 1" above the midline below the ring with the MB under and kicked a bit away from the thumb with a large weighthole near the MB.

I remember when the Original Apex came out and people were trying to figure out how to calm down the reaction of it because it revved up and flared to early.  Ebonite came out with another drilling similar to it with a large weighthole near the MB, and the thumb close to the MB so it gave the effect of "drilling out the MB" of the core (see pic: http://123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=24 ) This was supposed to give it more of a Symmetrical look, and if I remember correctly, the pin to PAP position didn't really matter, just that it had to be within a certain distance above the midline(no more than 2" I think), to allow you enough thumb weight to drill out that large hole on or near the MB.

I think this theory is still relative with this drilling.
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2005, 01:50:16 PM »
I'm not too sure DP ......balance hole and target weighting holes are involved w/ Mo's drills..depends on the bowler and the exact reaction...

I'm going to sit tight until KOTM can kick in
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JEFF
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2005, 02:02:03 PM »
quote:

I'm not sold on Mo, when you go see the "guru" himself and the ball doesn't turn out very well for you game.  It makes me scratch my head and say...hmmmm


It sure does....it makes you think....hmmmmm..I guess that ball/drill/lane combo doesn't fit my game! That's what it should say......

Bad match-ups exsist...all the time!  It's when people call balls POS, duds,...etc....
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JEFF
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Dyno-Joe

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2005, 02:19:13 PM »
Thanks for the info. I think I'll try it. What other different layouts that Mo created that would work good for a cranker? I'm thinking about drilling the TSA with the pin 5" away with the MB to the right of the thumb hole a tiny bit. Or is there some other kind of layout I can use for the TSA because that is going to be my long pattern ball. What should I do with the Sahara? I was thinking maybe I would use it on something like a 35ft to 40ft sport because of how strong the core is and how much I do put on the ball. Or I could use some advice from you guys. Well thanks for your time.
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Next Level PS

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2005, 11:48:27 PM »
Make sure you place the MB under the thumb and drill the hole 3" deep...and they say these cores are not versitile..
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Next Level Proshop
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2005, 07:05:34 AM »
quote:
Ok Jiffy Jeff who knows it all...

I don't know who you are....or better yet, who the hell you 'think' you are, but ....I don't recall saying or implying ANYWHERE on this forum or anywhere else on Ballreviews that I know it all!  As a matter of fact....if you pay attention to the post ..... I specifically said..see below to refresh your memory:
quote:
I'll have King of the Mill come on here to clarify more....be ready to get your notebook out.  he's full of info.....and YES, the info above is from him translated by me,.....so don't ask .....he's working now and may log on later to "clarify" .....hope it helps in the mean time

I also said...
quote:
........as I said...let me get a "simple" explanation and I'll report back.


So you see, Saw the Hack, that I clearly don't know it all because if I did...I wouldn't have to go to my driller for an explanation, or tell people NOT to ask me because I can't explain it!  So...as far as your "know it all" comment goes....I just proved it's simply not true! I'll be the first to tell you I don't know it all ...or...I would never be here !

quote:
Man pays to see Mo in person...Because Mo is all wise and know it all bowling pro shop guru.  Man pays to have ball drilled by Mo, layed out by Mo, and fine tunned by Mo for the shot that is put out at the bowling center Mo came to visit.
 Man not match up!  Sorry to hear you had a bad experience!  

My driller is a student of Mo's and has drilled up 5 balls that Mo has designed either in total, or just the core...and they've all worked very nicely.

quote:
Ball is done up, paid for and rolls like crap.
Again...sorry to hear that,...sounds like a bad match up.

quote:
Would you be happy?  Hell F in NO.   I don't care who this Mr. Mo Bot O is.  All I know is he is all smoke and mirrors when it comes to layouts.  He might design a good ball thats about it.
See the bold...who are you Phil Cardinale ?!?! Jeeeez!  See above....my driller is a student of Mo....I've never heard a complaint from his customers....Mo didn't lay out my ball.  However,...he did re-check my pap measurements from my driller, ...confirmed them and saw me throw 2 shots...he yelled into King of the Mill in the pro-shop about my ring finger pitch.....and he nodded....I asked KOTM what he said, and he said..."he just noticed that you're ring finger pitch should be changed so you come out of the ball cleaner and move your track a little further away from your holes" (I'm a high tracker) ....he was right....my track has moved and I'm coming out cleaner!  Mind you....he watched me throw 2 balls!

quote:
Get off his sack, he isn't as good as you all make him out to believe


Get off his sack?!  Hmmm, that's a true sign of intelligence! Nice!  And..oh by the way, idiot box,...re-read the post again....and show me where I've praised Mo ?!?  Do I like his stuff, ....YES!  Do I like my control drill Hercules,...YES!  Where am I ...."on his sack" ??  I don't see this? I look forward to your response!
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."




Edited on 10/13/2005 8:48 AM
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2005, 07:07:08 AM »
quote:
All I know is, never let that guy fit your hand. He underspans you rediculously. Doesnt feel good at all, me or other people i know.


Felt weird to me too (Mo didn't fit my hand) King of the Mill did....but still,...probably means you've been fitted with a span that's a little too long for you.  Depends on the driller and their "fitting" philosophy.  All I know is I now have NO finger pain at all,...my hand never gets tired, and you can't tell I'm a bowler from looking at my thumb
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
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mrh57

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Re: Super Symettrical Layout?
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2005, 12:32:04 AM »
Having a 1 to 3 inch pin makes the ball roll early no matter if is symmetrical or asymmetrical.  Now if you put the MB closer to your track or in your track this makes the ball rev up a little later. A strong asymmetrical ball you will see a greater effect of this.  I would not go past 90 degrees or 6 3/4 on the new super high mias bias differential bowling balls.

You will see a smoother reaction which will make it similar to a smoother symmetrical core.  If you want a smooth reaction you should buy a smooth ball instead of trying to drill a flippy ball smooth because you will make the ball real condition specific.

Depending on your axis tilt(track diameter) and axis rotation you may not like those pin positions.  You only have you RPM, ball speed, and PAP in your profile.
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