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Author Topic: Forza GT no disappointment here  (Read 12157 times)

machine189

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Forza GT no disappointment here
« on: July 06, 2016, 09:33:22 AM »
Every once and a while a ball company develops a ball that just shines. It increases you mistake room and just seems to carry those less than perfect hits. It’s easy to read and you always know what it’s going to do. That time when a bowler and a ball create a bond that no pin can stop them from achieving greatness. Ladies and gentlemen MOTIV has done just that with the FORZA GT. I am beyond impressed with this balls versatility on THS, USBC Blue, Kegel Winding road. If the Venom Shock is to MOTIV what the HYROAD is to Storm, Then the FORZA GT is what the GAMEBREAKER was to EBONITE. Diamond in the rough here!  ;D
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lefty50

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2016, 11:03:40 AM »
I still completely agree with luv. Looks to me like the rest of you are missing the point. The review itself was worthless other than the humor value in "bond between man and ball". My point remains. Anyone who can count that as a valid post, and not something we all haven't seen on here a thousand useless times, really DOES think Clinton's innocent. No one else is that stupid.
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charlest

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2016, 11:38:42 AM »
That’s why writing a true review is a LOT of freaking work.

You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces.

Not only does the actual testing take a lot of work, the writing and the analysis take even more time and work. This is why I stopped doing them – it’s a full time job and no one pays a red cent.

Show me 2 people who do that regularly and I'll tell you they work for BTM and BJI.
I did 2 of them about 10 years ago and and stopped.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 12:21:24 PM by charlest »
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

machine189

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2016, 11:45:30 AM »
Quote from: lefty50 on July 07, 2016, 11:03:40 AM
I still completely agree with luv. Looks to me like the rest of you are missing the point. The review itself was worthless other than the humor value in "bond between man and ball". My point remains. Anyone who can count that as a valid post, and not something we all haven't seen on here a thousand useless times, really DOES think Clinton's innocent. No one else is that stupid.

Well until balls are no longer round most review like you claim will be useless now if what your looking for is negative reviews then I can throw some balls under the bus (forza redline, Storm Lock, GB2 Gold). I'm not sell this expensive 15lb of $20 resin materials Lighten up. Just an opinion
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LyalC52

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2016, 12:04:28 PM »
thanks for the review Machine189
I like to see what non-staffers are saying about gear, even if it short and to the point

so far, I've like everything I've gotten for my self and daughters from Motiv and am looking heavy at the GT
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luv2C10falll

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2016, 12:33:16 PM »
I personally think the best thing to do is watch a ball on the lane from different styles. I know that's hard to do some times and also takes time to see.Also try to see "Said ball" on something other than a house shot, probably even harder to see. Patience may save you some money
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Steven

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2016, 03:15:55 PM »
Quote from: luv2C10falll on July 07, 2016, 12:33:16 PM
I personally think the best thing to do is watch a ball on the lane from different styles. I know that's hard to do some times and also takes time to see. Also try to see "Said ball" on something other than a house shot, probably even harder to see. Patience may save you some money

 
To expand on the above statement, it's very telling to see what's being used at professional level tournaments. I bowled in three of the PBA50/USBC tournaments last month, which included hundreds of bowlers. Two of those tournaments had squads of fresh, burn and double burn. If there was an opportunity to use a Forza (any model), there was definitely a condition to pull it out of a bag. When I wasn't bowling, I was watching, and I didn't see one Forza being used. It didn't mean that someone didn't throw one, but it would have been almost non-existent at best.
 
I'm not trying to pick on the Forza. There are a lot of balls that get tons of great press on THS settings that are MIA on PBA/Sport conditions. That's because a skilled bowler can make almost anything work on a THS. House shots largely mask the differences between balls, and it's largely the reason you'll see everything from dull oil monsters to skid/flip pearls being successfully used.
 
Keep this in perspective when evaluating equipment.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 03:23:47 PM by Steven »
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luv2C10falll

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2016, 03:44:12 PM »
Thank you for that expansion Steven
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spmcgivern

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2016, 04:19:32 PM »
Quote from: Steven on July 07, 2016, 03:15:55 PM
Quote from: luv2C10falll on July 07, 2016, 12:33:16 PM
I personally think the best thing to do is watch a ball on the lane from different styles. I know that's hard to do some times and also takes time to see. Also try to see "Said ball" on something other than a house shot, probably even harder to see. Patience may save you some money

 
To expand on the above statement, it's very telling to see what's being used at professional level tournaments. I bowled in three of the PBA50/USBC tournaments last month, which included hundreds of bowlers. Two of those tournaments had squads of fresh, burn and double burn. If there was an opportunity to use a Forza (any model), there was definitely a condition to pull it out of a bag. When I wasn't bowling, I was watching, and I didn't see one Forza being used. It didn't mean that someone didn't throw one, but it would have been almost non-existent at best.
 
I'm not trying to pick on the Forza. There are a lot of balls that get tons of great press on THS settings that are MIA on PBA/Sport conditions. That's because a skilled bowler can make almost anything work on a THS. House shots largely mask the differences between balls, and it's largely the reason you'll see everything from dull oil monsters to skid/flip pearls being successfully used.
 
Keep this in perspective when evaluating equipment.
And what do you perceive the reason a ball like the Forza wasn't being used?  Are you insinuating it performs poorly on shots you bowled on?  Regional preferences are still prevalent in a lot of areas.  Just because you don't see a ball being used doesn't mean it isn't a good ball.  After all, the original Forza has a televised 300 under its belt.

And this is where sites like this become valuable.  It exposes bowlers to equipment they may not see in their area for whatever reason.  Most pro shops are staffers with the 3 major companies (Storm, Brunswick, EBI) so those balls are pushed more at those locations.  Some even are restricted on what they can have on the shelf from other manufacturers. 

I can also see value in having just THS conditions used for evaluating some balls.  A majority of bowlers don't bowl on sport conditions or at tournaments with difficult conditions.  So seeing a ball used on 52 foot sport or 32 foot sport patterns won't do them any good.  Even seeing the ball on sport shots with lengths equal to their THS won't be as helpful.

Just realize there is value in those reviews only on THS.  May not be as valuable to you or a lot of bowlers on this site, but there is value.
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Steven

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2016, 05:10:32 PM »

"And what do you perceive the reason a ball like the Forza wasn't being used?  Are you insinuating it performs poorly on shots you bowled on?  Regional preferences are still prevalent in a lot of areas. Just because you don't see a ball being used doesn't mean it isn't a good ball. "
 

The three tournaments I referenced were the Senior US Open, the Super Senior Classic, and the Senior Masters -- all hosted in Las Vegas. Participants where from all over the US, and also included several international players from Europe, Asia and South America. From a laboratory perspective, this was as diverse a bowler base as you'll see in any set of tournaments. "Regional preferences" definitely didn't come into play.
 
As I said, I have nothing against Motiv or the Forza. One of the balls I brought was a Venom Strike because of it's predictability and even rolling characteristics. Overall, I throw different company equipment that I thinks works -- I'm not a staffer.
 
I simply stated what I observed. If a certain ball isn't being thrown across fresh, burn and double burn on a flatter 40' pattern, it probably means the vast majority of participants (who have a significant money investment at stake) didn't believe it's the best choice. If you believe different, state your belief and rationalizations.
 
We agree there is value in evaluating a ball just on THS conditions, but acknowledge the limitations of such a review. That's all I'm suggesting.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 05:12:49 PM by Steven »
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HankScorpio

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2016, 05:26:14 PM »
Quote from: Steven on July 07, 2016, 05:10:32 PM

"And what do you perceive the reason a ball like the Forza wasn't being used?  Are you insinuating it performs poorly on shots you bowled on?  Regional preferences are still prevalent in a lot of areas. Just because you don't see a ball being used doesn't mean it isn't a good ball. "
 

The three tournaments I referenced were the Senior US Open, the Super Senior Classic, and the Senior Masters -- all hosted in Las Vegas. Participants where from all over the US, and also included several international players from Europe, Asia and South America. From a laboratory perspective, this was as diverse a bowler base as you'll see in any set of tournaments. "Regional preferences" definitely didn't come into play.
 
As I said, I have nothing against Motiv or the Forza. One of the balls I brought was a Venom Strike because of it's predictability and even rolling characteristics. Overall, I throw different company equipment that I thinks works -- I'm not a staffer.
 
I simply stated what I observed. If a certain ball isn't being thrown across fresh, burn and double burn on a flatter 40' pattern, it probably means the vast majority of participants (who have a significant money investment at stake) didn't believe it's the best choice. If you believe different, state your belief and rationalizations.
 
We agree there is value in evaluating a ball just on THS conditions, but acknowledge the limitations of such a review. That's all I'm suggesting.

I actually largely agree with you, I put some stock into what staffers trust when money is actually on the line. Tournaments are also a great opportunity to get staffers real opinion on a ball.

That said, in this case I think there is a reason that may explain the lack of Forza GTs on the lanes... For us non-staffers, it doesn't come out for another week.
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Steven

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2016, 05:48:46 PM »
Quote from: HankScorpio on July 07, 2016, 05:26:14 PM

I actually largely agree with you, I put some stock into what staffers trust when money is actually on the line. Tournaments are also a great opportunity to get staffers real opinion on a ball.

That said, in this case I think there is a reason that may explain the lack of Forza GTs on the lanes... For us non-staffers, it doesn't come out for another week.

 
I think what you stated is key. Most of the guys participating had up to $2,000 (or more) invested in the Vegas tournaments. Unless you were Norm Duke, Walter Ray Williams, Parker Bohn, and a smattering of other high profile players, you were using what you thought would score best. Most of the Motiv staffers I watched were using Revolts or Shocks, with the majority being Revolts. Given the stakes and actual performance potential, it was hard to argue with the choices.
 
It can't be emphasized enough how much a THS masks specific ball characteristics and overall potential. My two THS honor scores this year have been with a Storm IQ Tour Pearl (1500 grit polished) and a Columbia 300 Swerve (500-2000 grit dull). These two balls are as different as night and day, but all the same, THS successful. Ironically, I didn't bring either to the Vegas tournaments. 
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tkkshop

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2016, 06:14:01 PM »
Some balls are made for sport, some for ths. If 90% of bowlers bowl on ths, why not produce more balls for this? Just look at the Phaze. We saw dozens of complaints here on br because it wasn't your typical Storm motion. But it was a ball made for sport.
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bowlingman817

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2016, 06:28:50 PM »
Well coming from one of the few people who loved the forza redline I will definitely be getting this one next week. I think the motion on the redline is a beautiful even but powerful move throughout the lane. To me Motiv balls fit right in between Storm and Brunswick type motion. Storm being the most skid flip type reactions and Brunswick be more midlane heavy rolling motions.  After having bought the Redline and Shock I am a firm believer in their products and will be ordering more in the near future.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2016, 07:48:12 PM »
 Just as balls have become so technical, so must any reviews of them be technical as well.

 The days of reviews like "This blue hammer is amazing, it outhooks my black hammer by 8 boards" being meaningful went away a loooooooong time ago.

 We've all had balls that were great for us personally that weren't all that popular, and we've all had that "great" ball that just didn't work for us.

 Take them all with a grain of salt. Much like charlest, I havent done a review in a while, and probably won't, because I really just don't feel qualified to do them properly anymore.
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Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

machine189

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Re: Forza GT no disappointment here
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2016, 06:54:30 AM »
Did anyone see "review" in the title? or in the Reviews section? This was basically talking about my excitement guess we can even do that without being technical OR bowl league for its enjoyment. Remind me next time your on telecast or win a regional. To everyone else who enjoy a little read and wants to threw whatever they want kudos!
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