IT'S ALL BELMOS FAULT!!!

I KNEW IT, *&(@ing Two-handers! 

I just found out about this issue today. Coming here to see what the discussions were on the subject, I am dumbfounded by some of what I read. Like others, I have seen comment after comment about the USBC "doing nothing" and "what do I get for my dues" etc., etc., etc.. Now that we see the USBC taking a stand, doing something, enforcing rules of the game....we see more complaints. Unreal! It shows me exactly what I have thought, that people will never be happy with the USBC no matter what they do. One former fishy poster here must be sitting back with a huge smile on his face today over this.

Moving on to the topic. What I see is the real issue is one of quality control at Motiv. I have nothing against that company, I own a few of their balls, but haven't seen them match up well with my game. As a bowler, I want to see as many ball companies out there as possible. First to give me the most options to find equipment that will best suit my game and my needs. Second, to keep competition up to make sure companies are always inventing something new and pushing the technology of the game forward. And lastly, to keep competition up to keep prices in line. My take on this, is that the Jackal line was designed to have a .060 differential. That is at the upper limit. If there is any deviation in manufacturing, the balls have a chance to go over that limit. It could be that the core mold(s) expanded slightly over time and use. It could be a minor change in the materials used (as stated previously), it could a number of other things. The problem is that somehow, this wasn't caught by Motiv prior to the balls leaving the factory. Somehow, somewhere, this is a mistake in their QC process. That needs to be addressed ASAP. Then they can go about correcting the issues.

And while I wish no ill toward Motiv, they need to make sure they reimburse the bowlers for all costs in regards to this issue. That includes the drilling/pro shop charges (for grips, thumb slugs, etc.) associated with getting the new ball ready for use. Maybe this is done by voucher given to the Pro Shop that allows them to get extra or free equipment at a later date, so there isn't an outpouring of cash for Motiv. There should be some mechanism that allows the bowlers to not be out anything for this change, but won't put an overly undue burden on Motiv.

And I feel for any bowler who is effected by this. But, you cannot allow these balls to be used in sanctioned competition after yesterday. I wouldn't have thrown a fit if someone tried to use on in league last night, as I said, I only found out about it today. But I would have informed them that last night would be the last time they could use it legally. As far as the USBC Open in Reno, if someone showed up with just a Jackal or Jackal Carnage in their bag, I would say they weren't prepared to do well anyway. The conditions are challenging, but not static and someone would need other equipment to make a run at cashing. While it may require the purchase of another ball there potentially for the start of team event (and potentially D/S), if they want to make it easier on themselves, it shouldn't force anyone to make a purchase if they truly were there to do their best. They may want to in order to continue to give themselves the best chance to cash, but it would be their choice.

JMHO

Well said Jorge. Well said on each point!

I really like the voucher idea for drilling replacements. No cash outlay and Motiv can send equipment at a later date.

I also didn't think about molds expanding. I wonder if contraction could cause the same issue? If the core molds were not properly cleaned after each use, residue would build up and subsequent cores would be smaller than previous cores produced.

AMF300 - As I said, I would have let you throw it. But if I wasn't, or if someone on my team didn't want that to happen, I would have said something after your first throw with it. It was a bit underhanded to only say something after practice. But as you showed, if you know your equipment well enough, you can make the change and know what moves to make to still score well. Glad it worked out for you and your team.

Wowzers - Thanks. I posted the voucher idea in the other thread too, with a bit more details as I thought through it more. It seems like the best of a bad situation for Motiv, the PSO's, and the bowlers.

I'm only on page 4 so forgive me if this has been covered.

In any competitive industry, all major players buy samples of their competitors products and test them to see what makes them tick.  Whether it's to learn more about them, see what makes them potentially better than yours, or to flat out reverse engineer them.

Ebonite (V2) and Roto (SD-73) got a temporary grandfather clause to keep a product alive past the time the USBC lowered the differential spec.  Whether the spec means anything in the real world is irrelevant.  Now if you're over 0.06, it's illegal pure and simple.  Is it a little low class to anonymously (if that's what really happened) send a package to the USBC  Probably.  Were they just to bring it to the attention of the USBC?  Absolutely.

Whether it's because someone felt they were at a disadvantage because the Motiv balls were better because of the high differential or if they just wanted to take a bite out of a competitor doesn't really matter.  A rule is a rule and the balls needed to be banned.  As Aloarjr810 said - why are we mad that the USBC actually enforced their own rules?

Motiv made a (hopefully honest) mistake and now has to correct it.  Instead of feeling sorry for Motiv, I'd feel bad for the bowlers that now have a ball or two they can't use.  Maybe it affects their Reno plans.  Maybe a big local tournament.  You're still going to have to wait a while before you get a replacement and shell out another $50 for drilling unless your pro shop covers that.  It's bad enough when balls crack with minimal usage, but it stinks for the average Joe (not the many of us who buy/drill a ton of balls fairly often) to be out addition money for something completely out of his control.

Quote from: Impending Doom on March 16, 2016, 11:46:17 AM

IT'S ALL BELMOS FAULT!!!

I think it was Rash's fault....his damn water bottle did it again.

Best comment I saw on facebook was, "Thanks Obama!"

I'm hearing chirps about who the mole is. Not hard to believe considering the whole "spin me" arrogance. Hopefully this come to light soon.

Are you suggesting something RADICAL? 

The Jackal has been out since 2014....what took till 2016 for the usbc to "discover" this? Oh lets go travel the country and do field tests on the Jackals....But they dont have money for a plastic key chain? If they went around field tested other companies balls all equally and then found this....thats one thing BUT it appears they did not do this. Motiv was targeted and plain and simple.

Targeted by whom, USBC? Again, another accusation with zero evidence to support it. Nobody here knows how this got started and why. We have a bunch of conspiracy theorists claiming that it must have been because some Motiv balls looked good on TV shows. Well, there have been tons of hot balls on TV over the years, and we haven't seen this happen before. I watched the shows in question, and while the Carnage looked good, it didn't look like anything out of the ordinary. Again, somehow USBC got wind that something was up, so they tested the balls, and they found them to be dirty. As such, they had to be pulled. Until or unless Chad Murphy or someone else WITH FACTUAL INFORMATION to tell us how everything went down, we're all doing nothing but speculating.

Lastly, 12, you mentioned USBC basically screwing over Open Chanpionships bowlers who were already there ready to use those balls. My first response is how is that USBC's problem? That is a MOTIV problem. In my world, Motiv should've contacted the people running their booth and told them to swap out the Jackals and/or Carnages for anything they had on site, and if the bowler didn't want another Motiv piece, they should've paid to let that bowler replace the Jackal or Carnage with anything that bowler wanted (of comparable value) from any other booth there. I can't imagine there were 100 bowlers there with this problem. As such, you really only had to get through a couple of days. After that, word should be out in plenty of time for bowlers to make other arrangements. Still though, that is a Motiv problem, not a USBC issue.

But hey, why let a complete and total lack of factual support stop you from hurling allegations at people and USBC as a whole. What's next? Is USBC secretly working with ISIS? Are they in cahoots with the Trump campaign? Just keep letting the crap fly, and we'll see if any of it sticks.