Author Topic: Motiv Future (Read 42987 times)

nadertime78 · « **on:** March 15, 2016, 11:38:58 PM »

I didn't see this in the Jackal post, but my question is can Motiv survive this financially?

Been using just Motiv for over a year now and seeing any sort downward trend in the products or change in ownership would suck.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #31 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:05:16 PM »

I agree that we will just have to agree to disagree and move on. Fair enough.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:25:17 PM »

I posted this in the other thread as well, but it seems to fit here as well.

I agree with Wowzers, Motiv should reimburse the bowlers for drilling the replacement balls. This is much different than a warranty claim, IMO. There are great pro shops out there, like Mr. Helton here, who are going to give their customers free drilling. But, then they are out the money. If you sold 50, 100, 200 of these balls, how much time is going to take to drill the replacements? That's a lot of time given away for free. How many PSO's can afford to really do that? The solution, I feel, is a voucher system. Each bowler is given a voucher with the replacement ball. Give that voucher to the PSO to get drilling for free, including grips, slugs, etc.. So all the bowler is out is a little bit of time it takes to get the drilling done. Those vouchers can they be turned into the PSO's distributors for free Motiv equipment in the future, the distributors turn it back into Motiv for free equipment in the future. This way there is no cash coming out of Motiv now, it is exchanged for product which gets more Motiv balls out into the market and the hit can be spread across multiple quarters (hopefully) as the vouchers come in from Motiv's standpoint making the financial hit a little easier to swallow. It is the best of a bad situation for Motiv, and it keeps the PSO's in business and happy and it keeps the bowlers happy as they did not have to spend any additional dollars getting their illegal balls replaced.

I will admit I have not figured out the actual details on the voucher, I feel there should be a cap on the amount it is worth, say at $50 or $60. The PSO's may not get full price for their work, but it is better then having to eat the time for free, especially for those that may have sold a lot of these balls. The real answers would have to be worked through by Motiv and their finance department.

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:29:16 PM »

The whole situation for Motiv and the customers is unfortunate, but these types of things happen with manufactured products (my last car was recalled 5 times in 5 years with no reimbursement for time waiting at the dealer or taking days off to be without the car, we have had to throw away food (both human and pet) due to recalls with no reimbursement...stuff happens.)

I am way more interested in the story behind this...if the mysterious "spin me" story is actually true...is there some sort of clandestine mission in the bowling industry surrounding this, etc. Motiv will survive this. If this had happened during their infancy, it would be a different story.

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:40:41 PM »

Quote from: Jorge300 on March 16, 2016, 12:25:17 PM

I posted this in the other thread as well, but it seems to fit here as well.

I agree with Wowzers, Motiv should reimburse the bowlers for drilling the replacement balls. This is much different than a warranty claim, IMO. There are great pro shops out there, like Mr. Helton here, who are going to give their customers free drilling. But, then they are out the money. If you sold 50, 100, 200 of these balls, how much time is going to take to drill the replacements? That's a lot of time given away for free. How many PSO's can afford to really do that? The solution, I feel, is a voucher system. Each bowler is given a voucher with the replacement ball. Give that voucher to the PSO to get drilling for free, including grips, slugs, etc.. So all the bowler is out is a little bit of time it takes to get the drilling done. Those vouchers can they be turned into the PSO's distributors for free Motiv equipment in the future, the distributors turn it back into Motiv for free equipment in the future. This way there is no cash coming out of Motiv now, it is exchanged for product which gets more Motiv balls out into the market and the hit can be spread across multiple quarters (hopefully) as the vouchers come in from Motiv's standpoint making the financial hit a little easier to swallow. It is the best of a bad situation for Motiv, and it keeps the PSO's in business and happy and it keeps the bowlers happy as they did not have to spend any additional dollars getting their illegal balls replaced.

I will admit I have not figured out the actual details on the voucher, I feel there should be a cap on the amount it is worth, say at $50 or $60. The PSO's may not get full price for their work, but it is better then having to eat the time for free, especially for those that may have sold a lot of these balls. The real answers would have to be worked through by Motiv and their finance department.

Here is a hypothetical...what if Motiv decided to reimburse for drilling with the requirement that the new ball be drilled with the same exact layout as the previous ball? This would, in essence, give Motiv the opportunity to say they replaced the ball one for one. We acknowledge that drilling is an essential component of product use and you received a new ball with the same layout as the old one.

If the customer wants a different layout it as at their expense since the end product wouldn't necessarily be a true one for one replacement.

Pro shops would take a picture of the old ball's layout, send that along with a picture of the new ball's layout. If they match the drilling cost is reimbursed by Motiv. If they are different, Motiv reserves the right to deny drilling reimbursement.

Just throwing it out there...

WOWZERS · « **Reply #35 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:43:42 PM »

Every food recall I saw we were either reimbursed the cost of the food or a voucher was sent for a replacement product.

I understand the no reimbursement of waiting at the dealer, but charging to drill the replacement ball is like you being charged labor at the dealer to make the change for the recall. How would you feel if on top of taking time off to go to the dealer, the dealer then hands you a bill to replace/change something? And says you have to pay before you get your car back? I don't know of a single PSO that sads hey take the ball and pay in a few weeks. You have to pay before you get your ball.

That is what Motiv is doing here. They are leaving the consumer or the PSO (right now at least) holding the bag on this. You are not going to get reimbursed for the time you spend in the shop waiting for the replacement ball to be drilled, but no way should you be charged on the labor to make the issue right.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #36 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:45:19 PM »

I like that idea, the problem is depending on the replacement ball, if the tech specs are completely different (think someone says he/she will take a Venom Shock as the replacement) I would wager to say the drill would be different or need to be different.

Tough to cover EVERY variable, but your thought is good as well.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:47:54 PM »

Bowler19525,
See, that is what I like about the voucher system, it takes something like that out of the mix. Because the new ball will actually be within USBC guideline, the old layout may not work on it. Depending if they allow replacement with any ball in their current or future line-up or not, the old layout may not even be close to what is needed on the new ball. Restricting it like that is asking for more trouble. The voucher system is a win for the bowler (no outlay of cash, just a little time), a win for the PSO (not giving away free time to fix Motiv's mistake, while still keeping their customer's happy), and a win for Motiv (the voucher, even at a $50/$60 limit for free equipment is costing them less than giving out cash, they don't create a cash flow issue for the company, it helps in the PR game by showing they are going above and beyond to correct their mistake, and it is trackable so they are only paying for replacement ball drilling - something that would be extremely hard to track if giving away cash).

tkkshop · « **Reply #38 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:54:17 PM »

Quote from: WOWZERS on March 16, 2016, 12:43:42 PM

Every food recall I saw we were either reimbursed the cost of the food or a voucher was sent for a replacement product.

I understand the no reimbursement of waiting at the dealer, but charging to drill the replacement ball is like you being charged labor at the dealer to make the change for the recall. How would you feel if on top of taking time off to go to the dealer, the dealer then hands you a bill to replace/change something? And says you have to pay before you get your car back? I don't know of a single PSO that sads hey take the ball and pay in a few weeks. You have to pay before you get your ball.

That is what Motiv is doing here. They are leaving the consumer or the PSO (right now at least) holding the bag on this. You are not going to get reimbursed for the time you spend in the shop waiting for the replacement ball to be drilled, but no way should you be charged on the labor to make the issue right.

Did they comp you your gas for driving to the store?

WOWZERS · « **Reply #39 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:54:41 PM »

Jorge

You are on to it. I would call Motiv or something because I know I already fired off an email concerning drilling reimbursement last night. I am sure they are deluged right now, but they need to hear the thought at least.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #40 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:55:52 PM »

Nope but they didn't charge me labor to fix a mistake that was theirs, not mine. PSO is charging me labor to drill a new ball that was their (Motiv's) mistake, but advertised on their box the product came in that it met certain specs which the ball did not.

Motiv sold a faulty product before it ever touched a consumer's hands.

ITZPS · « **Reply #41 on:** March 16, 2016, 12:59:09 PM »

I don't agree that Motiv should also be responsible for the drilling . . and I manage a pro shop. All Motiv should be responsible for is their product. Even staffers when making a warranty claim on a ball just get sent a ball from their company, they don't also get sent grips, slug, and a drilling voucher. How many people could use this to scam the company? How many people have access to a drill press and get drilling virtually for free and will still claim a drilling cost from Motiv anyway to make an extra $60-70 at their expense? This is just an unfortunate occurrence, and if someone has bought the ball at my shop, I'm going to do the same I do for all warranty work and comp the drilling. They patronize my shop, the way I see it that earns them some favor when something like this comes up. I just don't feel like it's fair for Motiv to have to reimburse or comp something they have nothing to do with. That would be like Motiv making pro shops comp customers the replacement balls because that's where they were purchased. Doesn't make any sense.

JamminJD · « **Reply #42 on:** March 16, 2016, 01:06:47 PM »

Quote from: ITZPS on March 16, 2016, 12:59:09 PM

I don't agree that Motiv should also be responsible for the drilling . . and I manage a pro shop. All Motiv should be responsible for is their product. Even staffers when making a warranty claim on a ball just get sent a ball from their company, they don't also get sent grips, slug, and a drilling voucher. How many people could use this to scam the company? How many people have access to a drill press and get drilling virtually for free and will still claim a drilling cost from Motiv anyway to make an extra $60-70 at their expense? This is just an unfortunate occurrence, and if someone has bought the ball at my shop, I'm going to do the same I do for all warranty work and comp the drilling. They patronize my shop, the way I see it that earns them some favor when something like this comes up. I just don't feel like it's fair for Motiv to have to reimburse or comp something they have nothing to do with. That would be like Motiv making pro shops comp customers the replacement balls because that's where they were purchased. Doesn't make any sense.

Agreed

ITZPS · « **Reply #43 on:** March 16, 2016, 01:14:37 PM »

So let me get this straight . . Motiv is replacing EVERY Jackal/Jackal Carnage regardless of manufacture date. The Jackal came out 9/14. Ball has been out a year and a half and Motiv isn't limiting it to purchases within the last 6 months or anything, they're replacing everything right down to the first ball that was poured a YEAR AND A HALF AGO. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have the OG Jackal already in their basement or closet, retired and done with, who will suddenly now drag them back out pining for every single penny they can milk out of the company. What happens when a ball cracks? They replace the ball and you pay to get the new one drilled. Except in this case you still have a ball you can use for anything non sanctioned. It's just banned by USBC, and unless specifically mentioned in rules for unsanctioned or otherwise sanctioned leagues/tournaments, it's still in play.

Only a bowler could find something wrong with the way Motiv is handling the situation. They're doing the right thing, and pro shops should step up. This is the time of the year when things are slowing down anyway, I find myself spending a couple hours a day just cleaning stuff or watching bowling on youtube or catching up on articles. 10-15 minutes to drill a ball when the original was purchased in my shop to begin with is just part of a warranty and good customer service. Maybe pro shops "shouldn't" be responsible, but it's just part of the deal or part of being in the business. Sometimes these things happen, period. I'm not going to cry about it, and I feel like my customers have earned it. Those who bought the ball online because it was "cheaper," well . . this is why you patronize a pro shop. For some reason people are acting like Motiv did this intentionally or was trying to scam or cheat. So the core molds expanded with use a little, the overage amounts to the thickness of a sheet of paper or two, Motiv is a stand up company and anyone looking to stick it to them loses my respect.

J_w73 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 16, 2016, 01:15:07 PM »

Quote from: WOWZERS on March 16, 2016, 10:40:54 AM

I did read the box. Box says USBC approved because it meets ALL USBC regulations. Ball was found to not meet said regulations as advertised on box. Ball was supposed to meet USBC specs before I put holes in the ball. Ball did not.

Ok, so get Motiv for false or misleading advertisement? I drilled the ball based on assurance from the company the ball was approved for all sanctioned competition. Period. Why would I want a ball in my arsenal that when I go to league/state/nationals I could not use? Thus, if I knew going in the ball would not be USBC certified, I would not have purchased the product.

I think you have a very good argument. I bet you would win if you took them to small claims court. I think the statement in your post is enough for you to win the case right there. Nothing else needs to be said. Is it worth $50 or so, probably not. I would write Motiv a nice letter stating exactly your point of view and see what they do about it. They probably aren't going to give $50 to every one that bought the ball (unless they are made to by a court) , but they might make good on an individual unsatisfied customer that took the time to sit down and write them a letter.

JamminJD · « **Reply #45 on:** March 16, 2016, 01:18:06 PM »

Quote from: ITZPS on March 16, 2016, 01:14:37 PM

So let me get this straight . . Motiv is replacing EVERY Jackal/Jackal Carnage regardless of manufacture date. The Jackal came out 9/14. Ball has been out a year and a half and Motiv isn't limiting it to purchases within the last 6 months or anything, they're replacing everything right down to the first ball that was poured a YEAR AND A HALF AGO. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have the OG Jackal already in their basement or closet, retired and done with, who will suddenly now drag them back out pining for every single penny they can milk out of the company. What happens when a ball cracks? They replace the ball and you pay to get the new one drilled. Except in this case you still have a ball you can use for anything non sanctioned. It's just banned by USBC, and unless specifically mentioned in rules for unsanctioned or otherwise sanctioned leagues/tournaments, it's still in play.

Only a bowler could find something wrong with the way Motiv is handling the situation. They're doing the right thing, and pro shops should step up. This is the time of the year when things are slowing down anyway, I find myself spending a couple hours a day just cleaning stuff or watching bowling on youtube or catching up on articles. 10-15 minutes to drill a ball when the original was purchased in my shop to begin with is just part of a warranty and good customer service. Maybe pro shops "shouldn't" be responsible, but it's just part of the deal or part of being in the business. Sometimes these things happen, period. I'm not going to cry about it, and I feel like my customers have earned it. Those who bought the ball online because it was "cheaper," well . . this is why you patronize a pro shop. For some reason people are acting like Motiv did this intentionally or was trying to scam or cheat. So the core molds expanded with use a little, the overage amounts to the thickness of a sheet of paper or two, Motiv is a stand up company and anyone looking to stick it to them loses my respect.

Well put and I agree again.

Author Topic: Motiv Future (Read 42987 times)

nadertime78

Motiv Future

WOWZERS

Re: Motiv Future

Jorge300

Re: Motiv Future

Bowler19525

Re: Motiv Future

Bowler19525

Re: Motiv Future

WOWZERS

Re: Motiv Future

WOWZERS

Re: Motiv Future

Jorge300

Re: Motiv Future

tkkshop

Re: Motiv Future

WOWZERS

Re: Motiv Future

WOWZERS

Re: Motiv Future

ITZPS

Re: Motiv Future

JamminJD

Re: Motiv Future

ITZPS

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J_w73

Re: Motiv Future

JamminJD

Re: Motiv Future