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Author Topic: Motiv Future  (Read 43000 times)

nadertime78

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Motiv Future
« on: March 15, 2016, 11:38:58 PM »
I didn't see this in the Jackal post, but my question is can Motiv survive this financially?

Been using just Motiv for over a year now and seeing any sort downward trend in the products or change in ownership would suck.



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tkkshop

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #76 on: March 17, 2016, 09:19:06 AM »
You humor me. You really do. I have noticed that this post has to be seen your way or everyone else is wrong. Those of us that understand what is going on are trying to explain to you what is going to happen and why. You can like it or not.

As far as Radical, I asked numerous questions that were never answered. And I found it hard to believe that Phil did not know that 500/4000 would yield an ending result much lower than 4k. Someone as diverse as Phil has been, especially with coverstocks, should know that the ending result would be around 2k depending on time and pressure spent with each pad. Then that the coever changes grit as soon as the first ball is thrown. Jayhawk made a video about this in 2012. So now that you're trying to discredit me to build your argument, try again.

The balls will be replaced, the drilling will not. I do not have a need for a ball as strong as the Jackal or Carnage so I am not out anything with this whole debacle. We will drill the balls for free for our loyal customers, charging them $7 for their inserts and slug combined. So they will be out about $10 for a BRAND NEW ball. My customers are more than happy with this and that satisfies me. Good luck on your free drilling. MAil me your ball and I'll treat you the same. But after postage, you'd probably have $40-$50 wrapped in the new ball.
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BowlingforSoup

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #77 on: March 17, 2016, 09:58:02 AM »
Funny how everybody assumes what Motiv is going to do.Why not wait till they say.Then go from there.I am sure they will replace the balls.I am willing to bet they will make it right with everyone even if it means paying for drilling or a coupon for a bag,shirt or something..I am sure everyone is going to find out Motiv is a top notch company.I think everyone needs to step back take a deep breath and wait and see.Motiv has came a long way to let this ruin there reputation.
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WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #78 on: March 17, 2016, 10:00:54 AM »
Bowling...I need to find it but on another website a Pro Shop posted that Motiv is NOT going to pay for drilling.

I will see if I can find it and post it here.
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themagician

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2016, 10:01:09 AM »
Quote from: BowlingforSoup on March 17, 2016, 09:58:02 AM
Funny how everybody assumes what Motiv is going to do.Why not wait till they say.Then go from there.I am sure they will replace the balls.I am willing to bet they will make it right with everyone even if it means paying for drilling or a coupon for a bag,shirt or something..I am sure everyone is going to find out Motiv is a top notch company.I think everyone needs to step back take a deep breath and wait and see.Motiv has came a long way to let this ruin there reputation.

No benefit of the doubt is being given. I don't think many people realize Motiv wasn't given any advanced notice, they found out when everyone else did with the USBC announcement.

Motiv will do what they can, in these days of social media and instant gratification everyone reacts (and overreacts) so fast.
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-Mike
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WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2016, 10:04:13 AM »
Bowlingforsoup

I went to the other bowling website, found the item, and when I clicked on it, the message changed. There is now no response as to replacing drilling fees whereas before there was a quick line stating no fees would be refunded.
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milorafferty

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2016, 10:10:59 AM »
Quote from: themagician on March 17, 2016, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: BowlingforSoup on March 17, 2016, 09:58:02 AM
Funny how everybody assumes what Motiv is going to do.Why not wait till they say.Then go from there.I am sure they will replace the balls.I am willing to bet they will make it right with everyone even if it means paying for drilling or a coupon for a bag,shirt or something..I am sure everyone is going to find out Motiv is a top notch company.I think everyone needs to step back take a deep breath and wait and see.Motiv has came a long way to let this ruin there reputation.

No benefit of the doubt is being given. I don't think many people realize Motiv wasn't given any advanced notice, they found out when everyone else did with the USBC announcement.

Motiv will do what they can, in these days of social media and instant gratification everyone reacts (and overreacts) so fast.

We don't know that for sure though. Motiv and USBC may have already had some conversations we aren't aware of.

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is why the penalty is so harsh when just a couple of years ago, USBC allowed Ebonite to sell another run of the original Gamebreaker, which is well out of the USBC specifications.
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CoorZero

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2016, 10:13:21 AM »
Quote from: WOWZERS on March 17, 2016, 10:04:13 AM
Bowlingforsoup

I went to the other bowling website, found the item, and when I clicked on it, the message changed. There is now no response as to replacing drilling fees whereas before there was a quick line stating no fees would be refunded.

Yeah, the article on Motiv's site doesn't have the reference to drilling fees anymore. Either their stance may be changing or they realize having it out there in writing is a bad look. Will be interesting to see what ends up being the case.
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bambalam

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2016, 10:44:13 AM »
Quote from: milorafferty on March 17, 2016, 10:10:59 AM

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is why the penalty is so harsh when just a couple of years ago, USBC allowed Ebonite to sell another run of the original Gamebreaker, which is well out of the USBC specifications.

When the USBC changed the minimum RG spec back then, it made many balls that were previously legal fall outside the new spec. These balls already approved  remained legal, but no new balls could be approved. Since this affected business plans, forecasts, etc, the USBC allowed the companies to manufacture and sell these balls for a given time frame, somewhere between 6 months and a year after the spec change if I recall correctly. Ebonite made one last run of the Gamebreaker as it was originally approved in this window, then production had to stop. No special allowance or permission was given to Ebonite. it was well over a couple of years ago, it was back when the specs changed.

The obvious difference is that the balls affected back then were legal under the rules when they were produced, then the rules changed. The current situation, the balls in question are not legal under the rules when they were produced.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 10:48:31 AM by bambalam »
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milorafferty

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2016, 10:46:57 AM »
Quote from: bambalam on March 17, 2016, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: milorafferty on March 17, 2016, 10:10:59 AM

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is why the penalty is so harsh when just a couple of years ago, USBC allowed Ebonite to sell another run of the original Gamebreaker, which is well out of the USBC specifications.

When the USBC changed the minimum RG spec back then, it made many balls that were previously legal fall outside the new spec. These balls already approved  remained legal, but no new balls could be approved. Since this affected business plans, forecasts, etc, the USBC allowed the companies to manufacture and sell these balls for a given time frame, somewhere between 6 months and a year after the spec change if I recall correctly. Ebonite made one last run of the Gamebreaker as it was originally approved in this window, then production had to stop. No special allowance or permission was given to Ebonite. it was well over a couple of years ago, it was back when the specs changed.

That's not how I remember it, but then my memory ain't that great.  ;D
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Bowlaholic

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2016, 11:09:05 AM »
Everyone take a deep breath and exhale slowing while counting to ten........OK GO!
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WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2016, 11:41:02 AM »
Milo

I do not know about the Gamebreaker, but I do know for a fact that when the new Diff rules were announced, Visionary did nothing but produce Immortals for a long time because they wanted to stock pile a ball with a diff of almost .080 that they could not produce in X number of months. The ball was already approved, was grandfathered, and the companies were allowed to produce any grandfathered ball until X date. I don't doubt Ebo did the same with the Gamebreaker.
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AMF300bowler

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2016, 11:57:04 AM »
>> But a mistake is a mistake and the entire mistake must be fixed.

The mistake was the bowling ball, not they way the bowling ball was drilled. Therefore, you just refuted your own argument for Motiv to pay for your drilling fees.
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psycaz

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2016, 12:28:55 PM »
I think there are several points that need to be addressed by the USBC and made public that might help folks deal with this situation.

First, how much notice was Motiv given before the USBC released their findings/determination publicly.

It makes a difference if you think about it. We are presuming that Motiv found out just like everyone else, when the USBC released their findings. If that is the case, I commend Motiv for doing the best they could in that case. They had to make some kind of a statement. Replacing the balls was a no brainier, but they may not have had time to formulate a plan to deal with the the drilling costs. Easier to say your not covering them, then changing to covering once you find a viable solution, than the reverse. Until they actually put their action plan into effect and it goes live, they have time to adjust as they need and see fit.

My son has a Jackal that will need to be replaced, would have taken it to tournaments he's bowling in this coming weekend. But he does have other balls to make do with.

I'm willing to hold judgement until their plan to deal with this goes live.

I would consider no notice a misstep for the USBC, they should have given Motiv a notice that it was coming. Notice was not going to change what they did, but give Motiv a chance to prepare a response.

If Motiv had several hours to coordinate a response, then it's on Motiv for what was released.

The other thing (that I would like to see) is them release the data that they've accrued on the balls in question. Initial testing results when certified and number of balls tested, as well as the current findings and number of balls tested.

Just to settle the lingering questions of this being a hit job. It does matter to some folks out there.
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ITZPS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2016, 12:38:04 PM »
Motiv found out at the same time the rest of us did, USBC gave them no warning.  USBC in my opinion also should have either given them warning, or let them know early on in the process that they had batches coming out that were out of tolerance.  This to me seems like there were some rather dirty and underhanded things going on.  Motiv has responded incredibly well given the circumstances. 

Quote from: psycaz on March 17, 2016, 12:28:55 PM
I think there are several points that need to be addressed by the USBC and made public that might help folks deal with this situation.

First, how much notice was Motiv given before the USBC released their findings/determination publicly.

It makes a difference if you think about it. We are presuming that Motiv found out just like everyone else, when the USBC released their findings. If that is the case, I commend Motiv for doing the best they could in that case. They had to make some kind of a statement. Replacing the balls was a no brainier, but they may not have had time to formulate a plan to deal with the the drilling costs. Easier to say your not covering them, then changing to covering once you find a viable solution, than the reverse. Until they actually put their action plan into effect and it goes live, they have time to adjust as they need and see fit.

My son has a Jackal that will need to be replaced, would have taken it to tournaments he's bowling in this coming weekend. But he does have other balls to make do with.

I'm willing to hold judgement until their plan to deal with this goes live.

I would consider no notice a misstep for the USBC, they should have given Motiv a notice that it was coming. Notice was not going to change what they did, but give Motiv a chance to prepare a response.

If Motiv had several hours to coordinate a response, then it's on Motiv for what was released.

The other thing (that I would like to see) is them release the data that they've accrued on the balls in question. Initial testing results when certified and number of balls tested, as well as the current findings and number of balls tested.

Just to settle the lingering questions of this being a hit job. It does matter to some folks out there.
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Storm Amateur Staff
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WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2016, 01:06:14 PM »
AMF...how did I refute my own argument? I have said on NUMEROUS occasions that I would have never bought the ball prior to drilling if it was deemed illegal. If it was deemed illegal in my hands but not yet drilled, I would not have drilled it. But, Motiv sold a ball that was supposed to be legal, we paid to drill it as if it was legal, and now it is not and there is NO FAULT by the customer. The customer did not drill it wrong, shop did not drill it wrong, but we can no longer use the product because of Motiv manufacturing a ball out of spec when they said it was within spec.

So once again, the manufacturing of the ball was the mistake BEFORE it was ever drilled.




Quote from: AMF300bowler on March 17, 2016, 11:57:04 AM
>> But a mistake is a mistake and the entire mistake must be fixed.

The mistake was the bowling ball, not they way the bowling ball was drilled. Therefore, you just refuted your own argument for Motiv to pay for your drilling fees.

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