BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Motiv => Topic started by: Coach Bonesaw on July 06, 2012, 11:08:05 AM
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After reading through many ball reviews posted by MOTIV staffers, it's painfully obvious that the "opinions" are coming straight from Muskegon, MI. Each review, which can be found on numerous websites, all follow a distinct pattern, akin to a company's advertising of said ball. While a very small minority of MOTIV staff members form unique reviews, too many of them focus more on copypasting all over the Internet, rather than honestly informing potential customers.
I'm not the only one noticing this trend. Other companies are guilty, but nowhere near as incriminating as MOTIV. Please, put some more effort into your review.
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Amen Coach. It seems that Motiv provides their staffers with a template for each ball on what they want said about the ball.
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Amen Coach. It seems that Motiv provides their staffers with a template for each ball on what they want said about the ball.
A big Plus 1 .....
Motiv makes great equipment that doesn't need the protection of "staffer templates". Give honest reviews with the perspective of individual staffer pros/cons.
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On any company wait for nonstaffers to start posting reviews or vids and go from there. Im a huge Brunswick fan but every company has its hits and misses, no staff member on a new release is going to post a reviews saying the ball is a miss and they don't care for it.
Now saying that vs saying some actual insightful information are not the same things, but I'd imagine most feel obligated to stay with the bottom line of product sales so they can keep their position.
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Talk to the rep in your area. Pay no attention to a lot of the reviews as a lot of them are guys with ungodly rev rates, throw their arms out on a dry ths to make the ball look good. Speaking from Motiv's perspective, I appreciate Justin Wi's reviews because he drills the equipment to show what type of reaction the average bowler can expect. Its not just "his" favorite layouts and "his" favorite line to play. He's also very open to the public. If you dont want to talk to him, my experience is to talk to the rep in your area and he will give you the appropriate suggestion of the balls reaction in your hands.
As far as video reviews go, i think we need to understand that its their job to move equipment. And if it makes your job easier to retread the same thing ball companies are already saying, why not do it. I dont like it either, but i think we have take what we can from the videos and do a little research because this is becoming the future. Its time consuming to make a video as im finding out the hard way, lol! Just my .02.
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Not to hijack the thread but if you look at Storm and Rigg's reviews, he has his own opinions and will also indicate what surface changes he's made or what works best for the conditions he would use them on.
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Exactly right. I pretty much use Rigg's as the standard of how it should be done. He will say if a ball doesn't match up well for him. Or what he had to do to make it work for a specific condition etc.
It just gives the review more credibility when the person doing the review doesn't gush with praise over every ball they write up.
Not to hijack the thread but if you look at Storm and Rigg's reviews, he has his own opinions and will also indicate what surface changes he's made or what works best for the conditions he would use them on.
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I love my MOTIV Raptor P7, but I didn't necessarily decide to shell out 200 bucks on the merit of this site's reviews.
No matter what, I always ask my local pro in the shop what she thinks.
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Unfortunately, not all pro shops know all the line ups for all companies. You have some pro shop staffers which will only carry or push that companies product. From what i have seen, they will order a ball for you but they usually go off of that companies information they received from their distributors which leads to the type of reviews as the oiginal poster stated.
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I can assure you that there is no company template. I was never told what to write or how to write it. I can only guess that a certain review form has been duplicated based on previous staffers.
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Motiv is not the only company who's staff reviews are that way. Look at Storm's (besides Riggs) and they all pretty much say the same thing as the website says
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Coach, I see where you are coming from, you can't put a price on a knowledgeable Pro Shop. I think reading, watching ball reviews by various staffers is for entertainment purposes only (my opinion). Everyone is going to be biased one way or another. What works for them might not work for you or me. I sure WISH I could throw it like wleto for example. Besides, they are PROS or accomplished amateurs, they're going to make every ball look like gold on the right condition.
I've always gotten the best advise from teammates who know my game and my ball driller who knows how I bowl and the houses I bowl at so I can agree with you on that point.
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Have you ever seen a video of a ball not striking ? Matter of fact, sometimes it looks like the same shot repeated 5 or 6 times. Like already said, staffers are not going to write bad reviews about the equipment that they get for free.
DO NOT buy equipment based on these videos and reviews. This information is useless. Its just advertisment.
I like the BTM reviews. I took a few balls that I have used for a while and compared them to the BTM reviews on them. I compared my findings to theirs. Based on my results and my game and lane conditions, I think I have a better understanding on what their reviews mean to me personally. I am not sure how else you can use a ball review but my method works for me.
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Coach, I see where you are coming from, you can't put a price on a knowledgeable Pro Shop. I think reading, watching ball reviews by various staffers is for entertainment purposes only (my opinion). Everyone is going to be biased one way or another. What works for them might not work for you or me. I sure WISH I could throw it like wleto for example. Besides, they are PROS or accomplished amateurs, they're going to make every ball look like gold on the right condition.
I've always gotten the best advise from teammates who know my game and my ball driller who knows how I bowl and the houses I bowl at so I can agree with you on that point.
Thanks for the compliment joeschmoe....
As far as seeing only strikes, the reason I do videos is for others to see how a particular ball goes through the pins at different angles. Deflection, angular etc... rest assured, I will never repeat a shot in my video either. Does anyone want to see a ball go through the face and leave a 3-6 just so they know the ball is real? No. Look at the motion of the ball and how it penetrates when you watch videos. try to find someone that has your style and see what layouts you like best based on ball movement.
Motiv did very well with the 2011 BTM reviews....
1st place most versatile (Sigma Tour)
1st place Upper-Mid (Primal TV4)
1st place Mid (QZ2 Backdraft)
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Knowing Rob L. aka Kegeler51 (Waukesha, WI) and his technique and bowling stats. I can get a very good and fair idea what a particular Motiv ball will do for me. He is very close to my stats.
riggs would be the same as I know how Jeff bowls (same town Madison,WI) and gives me an idea what a Storm piece might do. He was exactly right on in his opinion of the Frantic.
Boomers that are 400+ proliferate staffs really don't give me an idea of what a particular ball will do.
My biggest pet peeve is staffers that don't list the ball layout nor their stats nor condition. Some may do condition and layout but no stats.
I do agree videos are a sales tool for the most part. But a video along with a concise review is better than just some blah-blah. The reviewer/staffer jumped thru some hoops and did some work to give us a video.
I will say that Motiv has put more into their seed ball/staffers than just about any manufacturer that I can think of.
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I had never thrown a Motiv before today, got to the throw some at the USBC demo days in Dallas. Regardless of how the equipment performed, (I will be buying some very soon) The guys that were representing Motiv, were more friendly and spent more time with me and my buddies, than just about all the other manufacturers there combined. Big thumbs up on the customer service. I know this is not the right forum, but the people representing Brunswick, also treated us like they actually wanted us there.
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I am going to apologize now for a slight hijack of this topic, but I will get back to it by the end, I promise. ;)
Stan, I used to think the BTM reviews were very good, until the Ransom Demand came out. There reviews had this as one of the most hooking balls they reviewed that year. When I spoke to others who have thrown it, and to my Pro Shop, no one considered this ball to be a "heavy oil, hooking" ball. After that I watched the reviews more closely and have seen a few others that seem to overrate the hooking potential of some new balls. Maybe it's the styles of the testers, the lanes, or something else. I'm not sure, but I take the BTm reviews with a grain of salt now.
On the OP, I agree that staffers should honestly review each ball. Some may not work for them, and they need to tell us that, and why. If you have a 450+ Rev rate and a ball doesn't work, it may work for average bowlers with lower Rev rates and that needs to be said too. I agree that Riggs has a good model to follow, not every ball is a huge winner for him and he tells it like it is. I think that is all we can ask for in a staff review. While no one wants to "badmouth" their company or a new ball, I think it is fair to say that it didn't match up to your game as well as another ball in the lineup and give examples of what you did to make it more useable, as others may run into the same thing and can take some wisdom from such posts.
As far as videos, I understand what wleto says about showing the ball entering the pins and it's motion. But as a consumer what I want to see, aside from that, is good comparisons between balls. And there is where I don't want to see all strikes. I would like to see the comparison ball thrown on the same line, same speed as the reviewed ball. Show me that the old ball doesn't hook as much, or that it hooks too much (depending on what the reviewed ball is supposed to do). For example, if doing a video for the Raptor Attack, show the Raptor on the same line going brooklyn or hitting the head pin flush. Then not only show, but tell (whether in graphics or voice-over) what move(s) you had to make to get the Raptor into the pocket to strike (i.e moved feet 10 left, target 5 left, breakpoint 3 left, etc). And then do multiple comparisons, to some older (even if they may be discontinued) balls, as many consumers that may be looking at this product might have these older balls, and the comparisons would show them how the new product compares, in both shape and amount of hook and continuation through the pins. Again show the old ball(s) on the same line that the reviewed ball was striking on, and then the moves needed to make the old ball strike. These would help sell the new balls plus give consumers a way to know where the new ball fits in their bag.