I bought milorafferty's Octane. It was pretty much what I expected. It loves dry and hates oil. The ball will squirt and not move on any significant oil and will react to any dry. This causes some over under and inconsistent motion with the ball. The ball is super clean in the front oil and pretty long, longer than my hy-road. I did put a MOtion hole in the Octane and the ball is crazy strong and continuous on the backend and off of friction. BTM rates it a 52 hook. I would say on the right condition it would be a 52 hook, but if there isn't defined dry then there are many other balls that will out hook this ball. I don't have the Primal Rage but from what I have seen the ball is sooner than the Octane and pretty strong on the backend.