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Author Topic: Problem with a Havoc  (Read 8097 times)

lefty50

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Problem with a Havoc
« on: April 01, 2016, 12:13:06 PM »
I just purchased a Havoc. Ball fits my specs and type of game.... Expecting good things from it... waaaay disappointed at the moment.

I am 225-250 revs, lefty, PAP 4-3/4 x 3/4 up. Ball speed 13.2 on the Brunswick system used at our house. Pin is 1/2 inch above and just left of ring, with Cg stacked (4 inch pin). Weight hole on PAP.

On a league shot, my Optimus solid (1500) hooks much more, but taps 7 all night. Havoc is prepared and laid out identically right now...

It's a clear step down at this point, but I of course expected a step up...
Think it's burning up? I'm not sure. If I really slow down, I can get it to turn at about 40 feet, so I don't think it is. I can move into the oil and pitch it out and see a little bit better reaction, but that's really just a little bump off the dry outside on the THS shot....

Thoughts?
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SVstar34

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 12:20:34 PM »
What if you move into the oil and don't pitch it out? I love mine but the cover is strong/early and for me it works best when I move inside and just let it get to the oil line
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milorafferty

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 01:46:40 PM »
I love, love, love the Havoc. It hits like a Freight T...er, like a Mack Tr...er, really hard.  ;D ;D


Your expectations might not be realistic. Mine doesn't hook the entire lane, but it's very strong overall. It hooks early, but it doesn't have that explosive down lane finish.
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todvan

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 04:08:34 PM »
I would guess that it is not seeing enough oil early, killing all of the energy before it gets to the breakpoint...
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tommyboy74

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 07:42:05 PM »
One of the differences with the Motiv covers I noticed is that they tend to be a little smoother overall.  I had to make some adjustments with how I used my original Revolt initially with tweaking layout and surface.  But, those adjustments did pay off.   
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lefty50

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 09:57:53 PM »
To my untrained eye, I'm thinking the covers are weaker, at least weaker than I thought.... I think I'll tweak it a bit more, and prolly end up trying a pin down layout.... One thing still freaks me out though... In the past, pin down always meant "turns earlier"... Now I hear pin down is later.. Ever read the book "1984"? Sometimes in today's bowling world, I swear I'm living 1984.....
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mm7759

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 10:46:26 PM »
As others have commented, I bet it is just burning up too early.  They do need oil.  I don't have a Havoc, but have the Covert and that thing is really strong at my center.  However going to other centers, I have been able to play a bit more direct.  In fact last night in league I was struggling and had a major over/under issue playing near the track.  I ended up balling up and moving much deeper (for me....15ish as I'm a lower speed/rev player), and I had a pretty good look there.  It is great as it allows someone like me to move left and it still recovers and kicks out the corners.  I do also realize the Havoc is a different animal.  May be in the same family, but seems much earlier.  Hard to know without seeing.  I have seen people use polished Havocs and have had good success with that.
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SVstar34

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2016, 12:26:50 AM »
Quote from: lefty50 on April 02, 2016, 09:57:53 PM
To my untrained eye, I'm thinking the covers are weaker, at least weaker than I thought.... I think I'll tweak it a bit more, and prolly end up trying a pin down layout.... One thing still freaks me out though... In the past, pin down always meant "turns earlier"... Now I hear pin down is later.. Ever read the book "1984"? Sometimes in today's bowling world, I swear I'm living 1984.....

You're thinking way too much and over-analyzing. Your slow ball speed with lower rev rate plus strong cover on the Havoc probably doesn't match up well for you on your current house shot
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lefty50

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2016, 12:51:53 AM »
Possibly true, but when my OOB Yeti is a step down from my Optimus Solid, and then the Havoc is also a step down... Could be true. I'm not sure I'd agree with over analyzing though. Shame on me if I DON'T try to figure it out.
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SVstar34

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2016, 01:15:55 AM »
Sorry my reply wasn't split up well. Over thinking applies to the 1984 comment.

Before you consider redrilling you should put some polish on the Havoc.
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lefty50

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2016, 11:45:32 AM »
I definitely will try some polish, thanks for the feedback.
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Big Jake

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2016, 12:25:20 AM »
I would wait on the polish, I mean that is a good is idea but, the Havoc comes at "3000 Grit LSS", thats MOTIV talk for 2K grit matt. Which means it is a dull ball and not polished.

A polished ball will turn hard coming off the oil when hitting the dry where a matt ball will just turn as it starts its turn very soon as opposed to a sheen/polished ball.

My suggestion would be to change it from OOB condition to 4K abralon with no polish and then try it at OOB with a small coat of polish. Good luck as we all have been there! I didnt like my (1st generation) Jackal whereas it seemed everyone loved theirs.   
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lefty50

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2016, 02:42:12 PM »
Just got back from practicing with it again... Yeti Uncaged was below the Optimus Solid, just as planned. Havoc went long and turned weak even when throwing it down the middle. WEird thing was... It sounded like a rock when I throw it compared to the others... I don't know... Something's wrong here. Going to 4K next.....
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Big Jake

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 02:47:19 PM »
Quote
Pin is 1/2 inch above and just left of ring, with Cg stacked (4 inch pin). Weight hole on PAP

So are you saying that the pin is 4" from your PAP??
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lefty50

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Re: Problem with a Havoc
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016, 03:21:52 PM »
Between 3.5 - 4, yes. I realize it's set strong. I'm in the camp of "drill them the same and let the ball/surface dictate the rest..." Pretty much all drilled the same.
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