BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Motiv => Topic started by: buildinazuk on December 16, 2009, 11:58:10 PM
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Bought the SR2. This will probably be the only motiv product I buy. The ball has very little reaction. Totally disappointed. I basically have to play right along side of the gutter to hit the pocket. Had my pro shop sand it down to 1000. It rolled sweet for about 5 or 6 frames. After soaking in oil the back end reaction just stopped. Dont listen to all the hype. The same people are pimping these balls all over the internet. Should have known, but it's what I get for trying to support Local Michigan products. This ball isnt half the ball to my storm second dimension.
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Before we go off the deep end here, please provide some information.
What is your speed and rev rate?
What is your axis point and track diameter?
What is the layout of the ball?
What condition and surface are you using it on?
There is hype for a good reason, but admittedly not everyone is going to nail it the first time around. If you provide some info, let's see what we can figure out.
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I second what " Inverted 1 " said. I have bought many a ball that just don't roll for me. More often than not a cover or drill change just doesn't work. I am selling 3 or 4 balls right now that just don't work for me.
"One mans junk is another mans treasure."
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http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/im4x4nut/?start=all
As with all things, this is my opinion. And we all know, opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
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On a medium condition with relatively clean back-ends this ball is a monster. Sorry to hear yours doesn't match with you or your lane condition. Mine is a blast to bounce off of the dry.
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Lots of good input here.
Keep in mind that a slight drilling change can make a huge difference. Case in point - a Rattler I had went from a spare ball (rolled almost like plasticto get it into the pocket I had to do what you did with your SR2-move all the way right) to a ball that has a lot of bite simply by plugging the fingers and moving them one inch to the left (4 inch pin to PAP instead of 5 - it also changed the location of the balance hole). It amazes me how such a small change can make such a big difference, but it does. Going from 2000 grit with polish to 1000 grit without it would also tame down the backend reaction a fair amount. Without that extra snap that polish provides, it could give you trouble getting to the pocket.
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JustinWi asked all the questions I would.
I'm also sorry to hear yours isn't working out for you. Mine is unbelievable. Before I'd write Motiv off the map for your arsenal can you give us details on how it was drilled, what's your PAP and the details of how you bowl like he asked?
I'm not saying it's the drilling, but in my path of learning what my game needs I've gone through at least 3 or 4 balls that should've been beasts (black widow bite, Seek & Destroy, NVS) that all wound up being duds because the drilling was incorrect for my game.
I've been fortunate enough to own the GT1, SX1, TX1, SR2 & QZ1 and I've had great success with all of them.
Best of luck to you with whatever equipment you throw.
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The pin is right above my my right ring finger. I am a tweaner. I throw around 15mph and have a medium rev rate. Any ideas to make this ball work for me. I went to bowl a few practice games today and just cannot get this ball to do anything. I am trying but I have not ever had to work this hard to make ANY ball work. My AVG in league is a 196. I have been bowling for only a year and a half so I have alot to learn and alot of room to still improve. Anyone have any ideas to get this ball to work. Should I polish it up? I am looking for more back end so dulling it down was probably the wrong thing to do.
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I bowl on brand new synthetic lanes. I dont know enough about drilling balls to be able to tell you axis point and track diameter. I asked my proshop to drill to flip late. Another thing I noticed it how close the pin is to my finger hole. Should it be so close? There is no space between the pin and the hole.
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quote:
The pin is right above my my right ring finger. I am a tweaner. I throw around 15mph and have a medium rev rate. Any ideas to make this ball work for me. I went to bowl a few practice games today and just cannot get this ball to do anything. I am trying but I have not ever had to work this hard to make ANY ball work. My AVG in league is a 196. I have been bowling for only a year and a half so I have alot to learn and alot of room to still improve. Anyone have any ideas to get this ball to work. Should I polish it up? I am looking for more back end so dulling it down was probably the wrong thing to do.
What's the lane condition like? Have you thrown any other balls on the SAME condition and had it work for you?
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Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..
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The condition is a normal house shot. yes I have thrown other balls with success on the same pattern. I also have a dimension second dimension and black widow bite.
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Where is the little CG punch?
If it is near the center of grip, a redrill is in order.
Is there a balance hole?
Is there any way you can get a picture of the ball up somewhere for a complete analysis and suggestion?
Swing the CG out to use drill angles in the 30-55 range to make these balls strong. Use P2 or P3 holes to fire them up even more.
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quote:
The condition is a normal house shot. yes I have thrown other balls with success on the same pattern. I also have a dimension second dimension and black widow bite.
You do know that basically giving no valid information.
What is Normal for you could be abnormal for 99% of all other people. If you don''t tell us what other balls and how they are drilled are working, EXPLICITLY, we can''t help you. You''re just whining here and not giving any real details that people have already asked you for.
Don''t blame you or your driller''s failure on Motiv after one experiment. That is so wrong. There are many people here willing to help you. Please let them, for your own sake.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 12/17/2009 6:19 PM
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Easy gents, he is admittedly newer to the game and not up on the super technical stuff.
A good pic is worth a thousand words, trying to do as much as I can for you. The SR2 is a great ball, and the lack of performance you are seeing is definitely unusual. There is a solution, and I strongly disagree completely writing off MOTIV is it.
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are they drilled similar to these?
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m88/nocarey/motiv/Motivsdrilled112009.jpg
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i'll get a pick up for you guys.
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and its not drilled like those. the pin is right above my right ring finger. He drilled into the pin a Millimeter or two. I apologize for my lack of knowledge on drilling balls. I admit I am not an expert. All I know is I have had three other balls drilled for me and they did exactly what I expected. I also admit I probably jumped the gun on knocking Motiv as a company. I was pretty upset and should have cooled off. Just bare with me I will get some pics posted. Any advice would be nice. Remember I bought this ball to support michigan business I didnt buy the ball to throw money away.
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buildin,
what does your ball track look like? Take one of your other balls and just eyeball the very first line of the track. Does it come close to your fingers and far from your thumb, close to the thumb and far from the fingers, close to both, etc. That can help us get an idea of your axis point. If you are 15 mph and a tweener and put all fingers in the ball (middle, ring, thumb) then you probably are somewhere between 4 1/2 over to 5 1/2 over by 1 or so up or down. That at least gives some idea.
Next, I disagree with the whole cgnomaddah idea, so I'd look at how far to the right the cg mark (punched dot) is from the pin. If you have a high track on the ball then the pin being so close to the fingers is IMO too low for your style of bowling. yes this will get down the lane but it won't have enough energy to make it back.
For example, I'm a 5 1/4 over by 1 up PAP and the best balls for long and strong are pin about an inch to inch and a half above the ring finger and slightly to the right and the cg punch mark almost straight down from the pin. If your pin is that low near your fingers and the cg is kicked way out, then you've made the ball go very long and it will need a lot of friction to flip that core over. You've almost in a sense turned the core sideways which with symmetric equipment can be a negative thing. I bet if you slow WAY down you can get a big flip hook reaction and that would explain a lot.
Anyway, there are little things you can tell us and from there we can give you advice, but as always consult your pro shop with these recommendations before doing anything as we're not physically seeing your game.
Hope this helps!
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quote:
quote:
Where is the little CG punch?
If it is near the center of grip, a redrill is in order.
Is there a balance hole?
Is there any way you can get a picture of the ball up somewhere for a complete analysis and suggestion?
Swing the CG out to use drill angles in the 30-55 range to make these balls strong. Use P2 or P3 holes to fire them up even more.
cgnomaddah
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John "Steven" Parry...The Lane 1 rocket surgeon officially sponsored by Kool-aid and M&Ms....
If the ball doesn't have a MB, the CG does maddah...
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Rainbow Lanes Pro Shop, Clayton, NC
Vise Grip Staff "choice of champions"
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The cg only maddah's for needing a weight hole or not, static weight doesn't have the effect like pin placement and location from pap. All the research that USBC has done and they even will tell you that static weights are minor for ball reaction.
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"Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will "BOWL TO WIN", KEEP ON "TRACK", HIT LIKE A "HAMMER", AND "BOWL THE WORLD OVER" and not turn from it.
Bruce Campbell
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
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The idea that placement of mass in a rotating object has no effect on the resulting roll is completely asinine.
We operate under the set of rules, as such, the CG very much matters.
Abolish static weight limitations and yes, the cg placement will have less of an impact. But until then, the "CgNoMaDaH" folks can go hide under a rock and plan their world takeover. Pinky and the Brain anyone?
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quote:
The idea that placement of mass in a rotating object has no effect on the resulting roll is completely asinine.
We operate under the set of rules, as such, the CG very much matters.
Abolish static weight limitations and yes, the cg placement will have less of an impact. But until then, the "CgNoMaDaH" folks can go hide under a rock and plan their world takeover. Pinky and the Brain anyone?
are we really discussing this again on here?
listen the cg has zero effect on ball reaction, it just effects static weight. HOWEVER every ball has a PSA or MB (where the most mass is toward the cover). and even then it has very little to do with ball reaction.
I just dont understand the first post. the ball rolled really good 5-6 frames THEN it stopped reacting? sounds like something to do with the lanes or your release ATM it happened. no ball dies after that few of shots.
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tournament average: 219
tweener
medium revs
medium speed
currently throwing
rotogrip rogue cell
lanemasters black pearl
storm t-road pearl
visionary ogre ss, gladiator solid
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I agree with icewall that this is neither the time nor place for the "cg-mb matter or not?" debate
I have not drilled any Motiv balls yet but I understand from locals that have had them done that they are quality pieces.
Don't give up on Motiv until you get some more info so we can all help you out more.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")
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I'm going to say this once- The USBC Ball Motion Study indicates that your ball reaction is impacted by static weight by less han 5%. The CG only matters because it dictates, to an extent, the location at which the balance hole must be drilled, which can greatly affect track flare and hence reaction. The location of the CG is otherwise functionally irrelavent.
As far as the OP goes, it has been my experience that some of the Motiv balls aren't always as strong as many of their competitors equivalent products (save for maybe the TR2), however they are still good pieces of equipment.The first problem I get from listening to the OP, though, is that his pin is so close to his finger hole. Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but with most manufacturers that voids the balls warrantee and is unadviseable.
Otherwise, the others are right in asking for the location of your PAP and track and for its relation to the pin. I wouldn't be overly concerned with mass bias location, however, because when one drills a symmetrical ball the mass bias migrates quite a bit. It's more important in an asymmetrical ball, as they maintain their mass bias location much better.
In fact, Storm studies have shown that almost every symmetrical ball sees its MB relocated to LEFT of the thumb hole (and often above) almost regardless of drill pattern. Interesting stuff huh?
Your best coarse of action is to go back to your shop, figure out your PAP and give us its location in relation to the pin and the location of any extra holes in relation to your PAP as well, along with static weights in order for us to better determine the best location for a potential balance hole if we deem one necissary.
If you have any questions you don't want to become your standard internet forum circus, PM me personally and I will answer them.
The thing you have to remember is that you're never "stuck" with a ball reaction. Ball reactions can be changed drastically with only a few minor adjustments. If your ball driller wants to bounce some ideas off of me as well, he can feel free to contact me also. I'll be happy to help as long as he/she is the type that is willing to listen and have intelligent discussion.