Author Topic: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns (Read 9722 times)

walt8398 · « **on:** March 17, 2009, 01:59:21 AM »

Ladies & Gentlemen

This is a topic as a tournament director that I had to start because I think people need to know what it's like from a TD's perspective.

We (VMSBT & 40BBT) run tournaments because we love the game and the spirit of GOOD competition. Neither one of us are trying to pay our mortgages or car payments by running these tournaments. In fact, on occasion we both have paid more than 100% of the prize fund.

The two gripes that I have as a tournament director is the constant complaints about the scores and right/left issue. I know the right/left issue will never die. I've been bowling long enough (30+ years) to know that will go on FOREVER!

Just recently we were told that players with certain games would stop coming to events because they felt they couldn't strike enough. These are players that have won before and had success when the shots are in certain areas of the lane. As a TD we poll the bowlers to hear what type of conditions that you guys would like to see. For the past 2-3 years the choice has been the PBAX patterns. Now, it's no secret that those patterns really catered to the players who play straighter and have lower rev rates. Four out of five of the animal patterns played out and I didn't hear the guys that hook it complain or say they weren't coming to bowl anymore because they couldn't get right/strike enough. Now that the PBA has changed the ratios and length on all of the animal patterns the players that "boom it" are EATING very well. I'm sure the straight players are lighting up the phones in Seattle with complaints and bending the laneman's ear every week. Trust me it happens. I was a PBA member for 16 years and I've seen HOFers complain to lanemen for hours on end.

Here is the difference between the PBA and our local events. WE DON'T TRAVEL AROUND WITH A $30k LANE MACHINE TO SHUT OUT A CERTAIN STYLE OR HAND! When we are fortunate enough to have a center that will allow us to choose a pattern, we ALWAYS choose a pattern that is FAIR. If there is OB, it will be on both sides of the lane. If the gutter is sparking, it will spark on both sides. Sometimes we are at the mercy of the center's house shot. House shot are OK every now and then (as I have stated in other threads) but aren't the norm. These are once a month events run by TDs who also bowl. So we know what it's like to lace 'em up.

Tournament bowling was DEAD in our area from about '98 - '02. We have it good now with 3 tournament organizations. We should support ALL of our local events. 40BBT and VMSBT work very hard promoting there respective annual events. WE DO IT BECAUSE WE WANT TO NOT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO.
--------------------
Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com

Edited on 3/17/2009 10:08 AM

Edited on 3/17/2009 10:09 AM

Mike L · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:31:26 AM »

Tony (of Jeff), if I was in your shoes, I would have stopped months ago. You cannot make bowlers happy. Just doesn't happen, no matter what guys will always complain about something, scoring pace, left/right, lanes breaking down, and so on. The left/right thing, well thats a dead horse, only a few patterns ive ever bowled on has been somewhat fair, Suburban at york back when Alex ran the sport patterns, not the PBA, Winchesters tournament shot, and the USBC patterns are pretty fair even when Lancaster puts them out. All 3 of these have the same thing in common, throw it good and you can score, spray it and your done.

The fact is and ive said this for almost a year now, your tournament bowlers, the 20-30 that bowl alot, want tougher shots, however most of those guys would still bowl on house shots, because they do feel they can strike just as much as anyone else. The key is getting the 210-230 league bowlers to bowl. Once again I still believe these guys want to see their ball boomerang back. Honestly though, even when they are walled up, how many of those guys actually win? Very few, because the good bowlers will always adapt to the pace, whether its local stuff of PBA tournaments, the best usually will always find a way to be competitive.

Does it suck bowling has come to this, of course, but its just the way it is. I bowl this week in Hagerstown in a $50 per team doubles tournament on a dead wall. Fills up with 48 teams every month, they get over 120 singles brds and 40-50 doubles brds. 96 guys bowling every tournament, when is the last time the VA/MD tourneys had that many guys, been a long time. Its a terrible thing but it is what it is! Just my .02
--------------------
"Typical House Bowler"

walt8398 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:44:40 AM »

Mike L

Money Bags was a prime example of that in my opinion. They had the GREAT WALL OF CHINA (blatant 10 to 10) and he had 70+ open division entries I truly believe because the shot was "adult bumper bowling". To further prove your point, Martin Bedford won it going away and not a house bowler in sight. This will last until the house guys realize they cannot beat the regular tournament bowler across the house in a tournament forum. They too will stop putting up their money. Same thing used to happen back in "the day" with pot games. House legends stop coming when they are not getting a sniff of the money.

--------------------
Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com

wabullets · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:52:06 AM »

quote:
96 guys bowling every tournament, when is the last time the VA/MD tourneys had that many guys, been a long time. Its a terrible thing but it is what it is! Just my .02
--------------------
"Typical House Bowler"

Red Eye Classic.....granted it is a once a year event..........but did have 96

Mr Straight Ball · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:00:51 AM »

Another tournament that they wall 'em up and the payout is questionable barring a win.
--------------------
Baker...Why doesn't my ball h

k?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop

Mike L · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:27:07 AM »

I agree Tony, as soon as these guys realize they still are not making money they will stop, however the difference is in the Chambersburg/hagerstown area, entry fees are only $30-$0 so guys don't feel like they are losing that much instead of $90 like at the red-eye. The red-eye is exactly the thing im talking about, 20-25 house guys always bowl that because they feel they can strike on "their" pattern, but whos the last house guy to win that tournament? Bottom line is, if you want Joe Bowler to bowl on a regualr basis, it seems they need to be easy. Look at Jim Smiths quick and cheap, use to get 80-100 total entries when they were easy, started putting out PBA patterns and couldn't get 40 total, hell didn't even bowl one 3rd squad at one of them. Any good bowler will always want them tougher, but on the same hand they will still bowl when they are easy.
--------------------
"Typical House Bowler"

Mr Straight Ball · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:37:30 AM »

Mike,
The key is to get those 190-240 league bowlers to start coming out to boost the entries. Many of us who bowl regularly were one of those bowlers who fit that category and through the years we improved (hopefully). If the scores are low event after event, guess how long it will be before youâ€™re thankful to have 20 entries. If you want to bowl on something demanding every month, we all know where to go and we all know how many entries will be there before arriving. Repeatedly you can hear the bowlers asking, â€œWhere is everyone?â€ If you are looking for those â€œleague bowlerâ€ entries they have been going to Money Bags and I commend them for getting some folks out to bowl that have never had the â€œheartâ€ to do so before. So what the top hat is down, I guess all of the good players cannot strike when the condition is soft.

Running tournaments is a thankless job and I know someone will say, "You're making money!" A great tournament equals us leaving with $200 but you have to put some of that aside to account for the $100 toner you are using up to print standings, side action and flyers (paper is not free) for the next event. 40 Boards has not had an expense line because we are trying to do something for those that want to bowl, so when something goes wrong, we foot the bill out of our money. There are plenty of bowlers who profit more than us at every tournament, thatâ€™s just how it goes.

One thing that folks donâ€™t realize until you sit behind the desk, the biggest complainers are those folks that want to claim they will bowl on anything. â€œThey will bowl on anythingâ€ means if the shot is to my liking, I am happy and the shot is fair. And if those bowlers arenâ€™t happy, they are chirping in your ear and telling you how to run the tournament and how you have shut them out! I am cool with trading places with anyone who would like the headache. Just let me pay my money and bowl while you they do the work. All of the area tournament directors go to work 40+ hours a week, give up some of their free time to organize/run a tournament for you to bowl and then the reward is juggling everyoneâ€™s personal demands.

I am adopting a practice used in Vegas going forward, the addition of a â€œComplaint Jarâ€ on the sign up table. $1 per complaint! Donâ€™t ask if you can pay $2 and make 3 complaints either. LOL
--------------------
Baker...Why doesn't my ball h

k?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop

Phoneman · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:58:05 AM »

Ok Jeff who won this past weekend in Laurel?

ctk4life · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:35:18 PM »

Jeff and Tony do a wonerful job and what the Money Bags tour is doing is incredible. I bowled in college for 3 years with the best that the game provided. I have bowled with some of the best the game has seen. One thing that I have noticed is they bowl!! Complaining does nothing. If you want to bowl on the hardest stuff then be prepared to have 20 entries and see if it is worth your time and energy. Simply put: IT'S NOT! I have traveled across the country bowling for some years now and the complaints are the same everywhere. Right/Left will never die and in my opinion is a case of great conversation. The greatest bowler of all time is Left handed yet the man with the most titles is Right handed. Amount of events or not the thing is in the end it all evens out. Pete Weber once told me that whether it be on a wall greater than china or a pattern tighter than a 3 year old one thing is common, you have to throw the ball. We are so fortunate to have people like Jeff, Tony, and the Money Bags crew. They arrange it so we (locals) have the opportunity to bowl almost 3 weekends a month. One thing I have noticed is that both Jeff and Tony still go to one anothers events and even branch off to bowl. That to me is a sign that sticks which is why I bowl as many of their tournaments as I can. Whether it be on a house shot or the US Open we still get what we want. We get to bowl and have that competitive feeling that for most is what drives us to bowl week in and week out. The nit picking is for those that often seem to have a head larger than their body can hold. In tournament play, no matter which pattern, the best seem to be near if not in the money all the time.

Mike L · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:43:47 PM »

Jeff I completely agree, you guys do not get enough credit and I also agree that who cares if they are easy or not, I feel I can strike just as much as anyone else. Its a no win situation, but thankfully you guys keep trying!
--------------------
"Typical House Bowler"

BackToBasics · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:30:18 PM »

I admire the work that Tony and Jeff are doing because I honestly don't have the patience to deal with all the crying. I admit, I had my fair share of crying but it was always only to the fairness of a shot left/right. I at least want a shot at winning. If you had to play out and straight, then I did it. If I had to get in and boom it, I did. But what amazes me is the amount of crying I hear from seasoned bowlers who have bowled all over and on different shots. They always claim they want them tough...as long as the shot is to their liking (i.e playing straight up 10). If the scoring pace is lower but the boomers are doing well, they cry. If it's strikefest and their ball can't face up to take out the 5...they cry. But yet, they are suppose to be the local seasoned bowlers. I hear more crying from them then I do the local house bowler or once a year bowler.

I guess I have a different perspective now that I have been playing some scratch golf touranments. No complaints from the golfers if it's too windy...or too cold...or the pins are tucked in unfair places. They just go out and play the course and post a score.

I haven't bowled well at all this year so I get to hear a lot of the complaints and Tony and Jeff should both increase their expenses just to listen to them. Just show up, find out the pattern during practice and bowl.
--------------------
Anthony Chapman

Roto Grip Staff 2009
Vise Grips Staff 2009

Mr Straight Ball · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:49:51 PM »

To answer the question presented by "RD" -- Is it the oil or number entries, the answer is neither!

The problem right now are all of us that bowl! To much griping about this and that, we all need to get back to bowling 101. Walk in, bring your 100 balls and line up to score! Thank you Chap, I could not have summarized it better.

To quote "RD", "If program provides excellent marketing, service and product, there are no complaints and everyone is happy." If it were only that easy...
--------------------
Baker...Why doesn't my ball h

k?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop

walt8398 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:03:15 PM »

rd2731

Are you kidding me? Businessmen and marketing? This isn't a fortune 500 company or franchise either one of are starting up! You are missing the point. I'm complaining because as Jeff and I stated before.... WE DON'T HAVE TO RUN TOURNAMENTS AT ALL! Neither one of us are looking at this as BUSINESS as you so stated in your post.

Since you want to talk marketing... Last year I had the first B/W Summer Scratch Classic that paid $3,000 for 1st GUARANTEED. I advertised/MARKETED the event for 5 1/2 months at various events I bowled in NJ/NY/DE/PA/MD/VA/OH/MA. We had 139 entries. Do you know how many local entries I had? Less than 40! You know why? They knew that I wasn't putting out a TOP HAT pattern. Talk to anyone that bowled on last year's BW SSC pattern (which was Kegel's Broadway pattern) and they will tell you that it was VERY PLAYABLE.

The locals will go out of town to bowl. Egos can't get bruised just in case they bowl bad. Nobody there to witness it.

I was able to drum up a $3k GUARANTEED prize fund, balls from Columbia 300 and trophies donated from a trophy company in NJ. Don't know what else to do in order to get the locals out. If it takes the a TOP HAT condition to do it, not going to happen.

40BBT advertises/MARKETS their annual Opposites Attract mixed doubles event a year in advance. As well as they promote this event, it should sell out every year. It doesn't because year one the pattern was TOUGH.. REAL TOUGH. The spray it left/right bowlers left with their "jaws tight". Nothing but complaints.

The effort in advertising/marketing is there but the local participation isn't.

RD2731 - Please put together an event so Jeff and I can participate. After your event is done, I want you to tell us all about your experience.....

--------------------
Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com

Edited on 3/17/2009 2:50 PM

LAStrikesALot · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:48:21 PM »

I don't post on here too much, mostly because I hear enough about bowling in the bowling center, at home, eating dinner, and when I'm hanging out with friends that I don't generally need or want another avenue to address bowling. But I can't help but comment here since 40 Boards & A Ball is my event too.

It's tough sitting behind the desk.

Jeff and I are always open to requests, ideas, and criticisms. We try to keep an open mind concerning everyone's ideas. The thing is, every single person with an "idea" swears that they "know what the bowlers want." You tell me, if person A is saying something different then persons B and C, but all claim to have the "know" on what it is our events need to draw more entries, who is right? How can 3 different people all saying something different all be right?

This is what we put up with month after month with Boards & Balls Tour and year after year with Opposite's Attract. It does get old, it's true.

I'm not saying people should support us just because of our efforts or anything like that. I don't think that is what Jeff or Tony is saying either.

I think the point is that, too many people are disillusioned with their ability, and more importantly, too many people have lost sight of the spirit of competition. No matter what pattern we put down, there will be complainers. They will usually be of the 5 out of 6 people that don't cash, even if they were the same person that was part of the 1 out of 6 that cashed the month or week before.

I want to see bowlers get some heart. No matter what the shot is or isnt, everyone in the field is playing on it. Every event is an opportunity to learn something that can be used to perfect one's game. But bowlers now are just too conditioned to having it handed to them that they don't want to work for it anymore. And you know what, that is fine because there are events, including some of ours, that provide the opportunity to have it "handed" to you in the form of a house shot. And even that isn't good enough, because for the people that want house shots, and we give some % of house shots, they will still complain on the one event they attend that isn't house shot. It's really a no win.

I'm not behind the desk to prove anything or buy my next car. I just want to give people something to bowl. We will never satisfy everyone, but hopefully we can figure out how to satisfy most. I think what Tony and Jeff are getting at though, is that, its unfortunate that so many opportunities exist for local bowlers now to bowl in whatever type of event they want, be it house shot tournament, sport shot tournament, pbax tournament, doubles tournament, marathon tournament, you name it, and still there is always folks whining. Just lace em up and bowl!

/rant
--------------------
Latise Parker
40 Boards & A Ball
www.40boards.com

Edited on 3/17/2009 3:00 PM

Edited on 3/17/2009 3:03 PM

Edited on 3/17/2009 3:05 PM

Current Exempt · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:54:35 PM »

To everyone here,
Until you start calling people out with your complaints by name than none of this has revellance. I don't think any of you realize that there is no answer. The PBA offers the TQR to ANYONE every week the tour is going on. They can't get more than 100 entries on a "tough" shot. That means every regional member and amateur within a 5 hour drive could lace them up. Do they? No! Why? No answer. Make it a "great wall of china" pattern at a local center and you get 30-40 guys on avg.....Why? No answer. The game is gone and it is not coming back. T.Chapman is right with the golf comparison. Bowling will always be like this. If a bowler bowls well and wins there is always a "because" ( he is right/left handed, the shot was outside, he sprayed the ball 10 boards and still struck, he can only score with resin and today's technology)
Bowlers complain,TD's complain, people watching complain. We are all a bunch of whiners. That is how all of us have been brought up in this game.

Author Topic: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns (Read 9722 times)

walt8398

Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Mike L

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

walt8398

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

wabullets

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Mr Straight Ball

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Mike L

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Mr Straight Ball

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Phoneman

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

ctk4life

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Mike L

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

BackToBasics

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Mr Straight Ball

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

walt8398

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

LAStrikesALot

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

Current Exempt

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns