Author Topic: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns (Read 9723 times)

walt8398 · « **on:** March 17, 2009, 01:59:21 AM »

Ladies & Gentlemen

This is a topic as a tournament director that I had to start because I think people need to know what it's like from a TD's perspective.

We (VMSBT & 40BBT) run tournaments because we love the game and the spirit of GOOD competition. Neither one of us are trying to pay our mortgages or car payments by running these tournaments. In fact, on occasion we both have paid more than 100% of the prize fund.

The two gripes that I have as a tournament director is the constant complaints about the scores and right/left issue. I know the right/left issue will never die. I've been bowling long enough (30+ years) to know that will go on FOREVER!

Just recently we were told that players with certain games would stop coming to events because they felt they couldn't strike enough. These are players that have won before and had success when the shots are in certain areas of the lane. As a TD we poll the bowlers to hear what type of conditions that you guys would like to see. For the past 2-3 years the choice has been the PBAX patterns. Now, it's no secret that those patterns really catered to the players who play straighter and have lower rev rates. Four out of five of the animal patterns played out and I didn't hear the guys that hook it complain or say they weren't coming to bowl anymore because they couldn't get right/strike enough. Now that the PBA has changed the ratios and length on all of the animal patterns the players that "boom it" are EATING very well. I'm sure the straight players are lighting up the phones in Seattle with complaints and bending the laneman's ear every week. Trust me it happens. I was a PBA member for 16 years and I've seen HOFers complain to lanemen for hours on end.

Here is the difference between the PBA and our local events. WE DON'T TRAVEL AROUND WITH A $30k LANE MACHINE TO SHUT OUT A CERTAIN STYLE OR HAND! When we are fortunate enough to have a center that will allow us to choose a pattern, we ALWAYS choose a pattern that is FAIR. If there is OB, it will be on both sides of the lane. If the gutter is sparking, it will spark on both sides. Sometimes we are at the mercy of the center's house shot. House shot are OK every now and then (as I have stated in other threads) but aren't the norm. These are once a month events run by TDs who also bowl. So we know what it's like to lace 'em up.

Tournament bowling was DEAD in our area from about '98 - '02. We have it good now with 3 tournament organizations. We should support ALL of our local events. 40BBT and VMSBT work very hard promoting there respective annual events. WE DO IT BECAUSE WE WANT TO NOT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO.
--------------------
Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com

Edited on 3/17/2009 10:08 AM

Edited on 3/17/2009 10:09 AM

LAStrikesALot · « **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:11:54 PM »

Youth bowling is a different beast entirely to adult bowling. How do I know? For one, I used to bowl youth tournaments. But even more, I used to RUN youth tournaments.

We're talking about adults here, who pay for the own tournaments, equipment, league, practice, and the like. Youth bowling tends to have the "handicap mentality" as I call it. Where everyone gets something, and kids are just happy to be bowling. This wouldn't be the first or only example of situations where perhaps adults should take a lesson from the kids.
--------------------
Latise Parker
40 Boards & A Ball
www.40boards.com

dogman666 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:13:25 PM »

Question for all. What is the ratio of MD/VA bowlers? My guess would be about 90/10 MD. Also the 5-8 dollars a board profit is a little steep especially if you're collecting 120 boards. Toner/paper/computers aren't cheap but that turns me off from donating

I like to give all my money to the good bowlers.

CBass1724 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:14:47 PM »

quote:
Random ramblings before I go into a meeting...

Cbass-

Tour Titlists:
Danny Wiseman
Joy Esterson
Kendra (Cameron) Gaines

Regional Champions:
Jim Lewis
Terry Wiley (if I am not mistaken)
Bobby Hall
Kenny Lowe
Chris Blackmore
(I'm very sure I have missed many more sorry guys )

Team USA:
Tony Chapman (National Amateur Champion)
Kendra (Cameron) Gaines
John Gaines
Joy Esterson

I don't think that is the point...

That's why I said "PBA NATIONAL", not regionals, team USA, or the ladies...no disrespect intended to any of them.

But yeah it really wasn't the point. You would think that with as many bowlers as there are in this area that the list of great bowlers and accomplishments would be higher, right?

EDIT:

The point is if you want entries, make them easy. If you want competition to make the bowlers better, make them harder. The reason that list of people with great accomplishments is so short is that not many people want to better themselves on harder shots.

I'd say the ratio of bowlers is heavily weighted towards the MD side. People near me in NOVA are so used to the Bowl America generic house shots that they don't want to bowl on anything but that type of shot.
--------------------
C.J.

Edited on 3/18/2009 12:27 PM

wabullets · « **Reply #34 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:24:59 PM »

quote:
Random ramblings before I go into a meeting...

Cbass-

Tour Titlists:
Danny Wiseman
Joy Esterson
Kendra (Cameron) Gaines

Regional Champions:
Jim Lewis
Terry Wiley (if I am not mistaken)
Bobby Hall
Kenny Lowe
Chris Blackmore
(I'm very sure I have missed many more sorry guys )

While you said it isnt the point.......just trying to give props to a few you left off Mike on the regional level....

Tony Walton, Magic Gray, Mark Glover, Rich Dodge, Rich Wolfe, Greg Goetz, Bruce Hollen, Howard Marshall, Wiseman, Criss (all time leader in the east region), Ray Shackleford, Chris Johnson, John Gaines, Mark Bowers..SR's Donny Carr and Dave Kneas.....and I am sure there are names I may be forgetting and some of the names the "newer" bowlers may not even recognize or have seen them bowl....I dont believe Terry Wiley has won....though I do feel the way he is playing, it will come!

Now back on topic ......

Edited on 3/18/2009 12:26 PM

LAStrikesALot · « **Reply #35 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:34:11 PM »

120 boards?

What tournaments do you go to around here that get 120 boards?
Money bags had 80 entries and only sniffed at 60 boards. A good monthly event for 40B&B is 60 brackets. Whether $5-$8 is a steep amount for bracket cut i'll leave for another debate. But let's be honest, since some want to keep coming back to the "business" of things. $5*60 brackets is $300. Factor in supplies which include web hosting, domain names, computers, software, paper, copies, supplies, etc and then factor in the time we spend doing results, making new flyers, having discussions with whiny people about tournaments, brainstorming, updating web sites, maintaining databases and the list goes on. Trust me, its more profitable for me to go to my day job and work 1 of OT then is to run 1 event that takes up 5 hours of my day total between travel, check-in, bowling, payout and clean up.

That established, i think its clear that we do this for the bowlers, not for our pockets or our egos. And we just want to see the events succeed we want to see the bowlers happy. What I find I can't stomach is when someone complains about something, so we change it, and then they complain about the new implementation, even when/if that new implementation is their idea. There are people that whine for house shot, so we put it down, and then they complain the lefties ran away with it, or that "it didn't play like league." There are people that don't want the scores high, so we put down tournament pattern, and then they complain "that shot played to the boomers" or "man that shot was on the gutter, it wasn't fair."

No win! LOL
--------------------
Latise Parker
40 Boards & A Ball
www.40boards.com

Mr Straight Ball · « **Reply #36 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:49:14 PM »

Now that is funny when you think about...got what you wanted and still complaining. Almost made me spit me tea on my monitor!
--------------------
Baker...Why doesn't my ball h

k?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop

CBass1724 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:53:48 PM »

Latise - my example was to prove a point about running tournaments to make money versus doing it to help the game of bowling. I never said you all run tournaments for the exclusive purpose to make money. The $5 vs $8 debate -- well there is no argument here because any TD can do what they want and I have zero problems with any cut being taken from there. (for example, it's the tourneys who have a $100 entry fee that take the $20 "expense" fee that I would have a problem with, but none of you guys do that)

If I am not mistaken the Red Eye gets well over 120 brackets. It's also on a THS.

--------------------
C.J.

Edited on 3/18/2009 1:11 PM

Edited on 3/18/2009 2:23 PM

dogman666 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:55:33 PM »

Didn't realize all else you put into it. I also was under the impression that some of the tournies were getting 120 entries. I only charge 2 per board but I bowl in the league and I'm out the door with nary a care. Still would like to hear about the MD/VA turn out because the bridge tends to keep people on the other side.

Mr Straight Ball · « **Reply #39 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:30:06 PM »

The Infamous Brige
Why is it that NOVA bowlers cannot cross the bridge but many Maryland bowlers cross it without a thought?

Who knows about the Triangle 66 joke? You will only see those that bowl at Bowl America Chantinlly, Bowl America Manassas and Bowl America Bull Run if there is a tournament in one of those houses.
--------------------
Baker...Why doesn't my ball h

k?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop

LAStrikesALot · « **Reply #40 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:31:52 PM »

CJ my post wasn't directed to you. I do understand what you are saying and suprisingly, i tend to agree with you :-)
--------------------
Latise Parker
40 Boards & A Ball
www.40boards.com

dogman666 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:01:02 PM »

Maybe it's not the bridge. It could be that Maryland has more money bowlers who will go the extra length to pad their pockets. I understand their is an over 50 section in some of your tournaments. Don't know if I have a chance against either but as a gambler I'll give anything a try. Notice I did not use the term bowler

Mr Straight Ball · « **Reply #42 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:16:34 PM »

40 Boards & VMSBT have had a long standing rule that more than 5 women or seniors then a special prize is paid.

In case there are women/seniors reading this thread -- IF we had a strong turn out at a 40 Boards event, then a separate division would be possible. As it stands, the only women you see outside of Money Bags are Joy & Karla. As for the seniors, we usually see Brosius, Chetti, Jones and here and there we see J.R. and WW. This is what we had planned for day one but the support is not there to launch the plan.
--------------------
Baker...Why doesn't my ball h

k?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop

Mike L · « **Reply #43 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:37:02 PM »

Honestly let me tell you why most don't cross the "bridge". Every MD and VA guy will tell you VA has more hook and when VA guys goto MD they complain they are too slick, MD guys come to VA, they hook too much. Once again no winning either way. Bowlers will always complain no matter the condition, center, entry fee, or payouts. Trust me I run a center here and just with league bowlers theres no winning.

Latise,
I bowl in Hagerstown every month on a dead wall, 100+ singles and 40+ doubles brackets every month for over 2 years now. Walton 2 yrs ago use to get 120 every month too. Fact is, shots got more demanding, guys stopped coming and now he gets 40. Gaithersburg was always his biggest draw and its because they were easy. Its a sad fact but its true. Numbers don't lie!
--------------------
"Typical House Bowler"

walt8398 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:38:51 PM »

Jeff

"The Infamous Bridge" has been a problem since the 80s. For years, only Larry O'Neil would venture across the Woodrow Wilson for league or pot games. The TRIANGLE 66 cracked me up!

For years, we NCABA bowlers always wondered why their averages were so much higher until some of us ventured over there to bowl league...... It is then that we too learned how to wall up our lanes.....LMAO
--------------------
Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com

CBass1724 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:40:51 PM »

quote:

Who knows about the Triangle 66 joke? You will only see those that bowl at Bowl America Chantinlly, Bowl America Manassas and Bowl America Bull Run if there is a tournament in one of those houses.

The tendency for those tournaments is to be run on a house shot. I think Jim Smith started to hurt the Manassas Holiday tournaments local following by making it on a sport shot sometimes.

I bowl at 2 of the 3 of those houses (out of convenience), plus Dranesville, and 99.99934% of the bowlers there are content bowling their 2-3 leagues a week and could careless whether anybody runs tournaments or not. Disposable income is just not there as much as it used to be...plus people like myself have different priorities on the weekends that does not involve receiving a beatdown on the lanes. Also, BA Chantilly just finally got out of it's rut in these past few months and are finally having honor scores shot again. Amazing what a Kegel machine will do for a center. That place has been "AMF Chantilly" for the past few years, LOL.

Oh and if some of you out there want to nitpick about people's accomplishments from this area, then don't forget to include Frank McCarthy on your list of PBA regional title holders.
--------------------
C.J.

Author Topic: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns (Read 9723 times)

walt8398

Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

LAStrikesALot

Re: Local bowlers & Oil Patterns

dogman666

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CBass1724

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wabullets

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LAStrikesALot

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Mr Straight Ball

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CBass1724

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dogman666

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Mr Straight Ball

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LAStrikesALot

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dogman666

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Mr Straight Ball

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Mike L

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walt8398

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CBass1724

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