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Author Topic: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12  (Read 2336 times)

Mike L

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My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« on: March 05, 2012, 03:49:12 PM »
First off let me start by saying anyone that knows me on here or that bowls with me knows I would be that last person in the world to whine or complain about anything when it comes to bowling, because to me noone controls anything in bowling except yourself.  If I win $1000 or lose $1000 you will never hear me complaining about anything.

 

I have nothing but respect for the tournament directors that are around the area because theres no way I could deal with all of the complaining. I run a center as well as a pro shop so I know what you guys put up with at every event, however I lost all respect for John Parks yesterday and I told him to his face, but I would like to let all the area bowlers know what happened.

 

First off, he had 2 different flyers out with 2 different starting times, but whatever no big deal.

Get there the format which is below from his OWN post

 

"The format is 5 games of qualifying. Cut the field in half. The remaining bowlers will then bowl 3 games of matchplay. 30 bonus pins for each match won. Depending on entries we will then cut to the top 16 or 8 for single game elimination matches until we have 4 bowlers left. We will then have a top 4 stepladder finals to determine the champion. NOTE: After the first round pins do not carry over. 1st place 1000.00 based on 45 bowlers."

 

Now if I am in the wrong here someone please say so.

 

We are done the 1st game I shot 155 (yay) I asked John hey your are still cutting the field in half?  He says yeah actually taking 14 outta 26 to make it it even.  I asked do any pins carry over at all?  He says no, I said good so I just wanna grind out and just get in for the top 14.

 

I barely make it and everyone comes up and draws a random lane for the match play round which is bowl 3 games with 30 pins bonus, I get lucky and win 1st 2 games, plus 104 i think, but keep in mind I was told pins don't carry over, so the last game, knowing I was in soft because the lanes were brutal, I start throwing different balls in the 3rd game trying to find something better than what I had, because im assuming because I was told pins won't carry over we will just draw random again.  (This maybe my fault for not asking again but John did tell me pins don't carry over).  Shoot 160 or 170 something, once again tryin different stuff.

 

Now all of the sudden he announces who is bowling where???  I asked how was this decided, and I quote "The total from the 3 games in round 2 determined seeding"  WTF????  Where or when did you say that???  He then goes on to explain he thought that was the best way to determine it, I said well you might have wanted to tell people that. 

 

Went to head to head elimination games, so im p*ssed because now after basically throwing away the last game and drew a guy that was getting a better look as the day went on instead of someone that was barely sneaking in, but once again that has nothing to do with my complaint.  Win or lose im ok with it.

 

I lose but I was complaining before I lost, that has no impact on how I felt.  I could have went on to win and still feel the same way I do about it.

 

Now heres another kicker, the < seed out of the 8 he says is guaranteed at least the 5th place check because he felt the leader deserved to at least cash.  So I could have shot 299 and lost my match and he could have shot 99 and he'd be 5th LOL 

 

This reminded me of a certain tourney director that ran tournaments for years in the area and changed the rules as the event went.

 

This will be the last time I ever bowl a John Parks event and will never promote any of his tournaments on this site again and I encourage any other tournament bowlers to do the same.

 

Once again I appreciate and respect all tournament directors, Walton, Baker, Mitchell, and all the guys from the Hagerstown-Chamberburg area.  You guys do a fantastic job and deal with a bunch of headaches, I for one appreciate what you do.

 

Mike Leonard

(P.S. If you have an issue with what I am saying you know where to find me)

 

 

 


 

 

 


"Typical House Bowler"
 
Edited by Mike L on 3/5/2012 at 5:17 PM
 
Edited by Mike L on 3/5/2012 at 5:21 PM

 

Trackboy2009

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 04:01:53 PM »
It sounded like a cluster F..K .

 

Note to self: Get everything in writing and go from there or second thought Tournament Directors go by what is written! I was not there but I know Mike, if he is complaining... somebody screwd up!


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jp300x3

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 02:36:06 AM »
 First off Mike, I respect as well as all the bowlers that support all the local tournaments. Secondly, the tournament was run as designed to run. I will admit that the one game single elimination round didnt work that well in the scheme of the tournament and will be removed from that particular format. Thirdly you answered your own question by what you hi-lighted in your statement above (pins do not carry over after the first round). The single elimination was seeded according to the matchplay round as would be suspected (1vs 8, 2 vs 7 etc.) The matchplay round also determined your seeding in the stepladder round. Msybe this is where it wasnt communicated better to you and a few others. No pins carried over after first round. This was the first time running this tournament and the kinks will be worked out for the next one of this format. I apologize if there any miss comunication to you on my part but the tournament wad run as designed. Also with payout of the fifth spot, we only had money for 5 spots since it wad a 1 in 5 cash ratio. I only could pay one of the losers of the elimination round so thats how it was decided beforehand. This is also why I stated earlier that the elimiation round dodnt fit to well in this format and will be removed.

I hope you will reconsider bowling our events

Thanks


coasterp

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 07:56:22 AM »
While I have no idea where this tournament was, it sounds like a confusing mess. A format that is used in my area that works well and is simple and everyone really seems to like goes like this:

 

Cash ratio is decided up front. Typically it is 1 in 6 bowlers. Cuts are per squad. 30 bowlers on the first squad means 5 make the cut. There are usually two or three sqauds to qualify on.

 

Finals are random draw of all bowlers making the cut. 4 bowlers per pair usually, unless there is an odd number. One or two pairs may have three then. All bowlers bowl one game bowling ONLY aginst the bowlers on that pair. The top two bowlers from each pair move on and re-draw lanes. The bowlers that lost get paid. This continues until you end up with a final pair of 4 bowlers who bowl one game and get paid according to score. There is no carry over. Ties for the cut off a squad are broken by a 9th & 10th frame rolloff. Tournaments run like this usually see in the 100 entry range due to how well they run.



budda

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 08:33:25 AM »
First, since I had the privilege of bowling with Mike all day, you are awesome. You did a great job grinding it out to make the cut to the top 14.

The only problem I had was that 4th game of match play. My understanding was there would be three games of match play with bonus pins and then cut to the top four for step ladder. That extra game of match play threw me for a loop. Since you were paying 5 spots, the 5th place money should have gone to the person in 5th place. Not the top seed if he loses his match. If anything the 4th game of match play should have been a position round and some people could have had the chance to move up a few spaces.

I am one of a few people from the houses I bowl in to go out and bowl tournaments. I would never try to run one cause I to could not deal with the BS of trying to make everyone happy. I give credit to all who put on and promote scratch tournaments in our area. I will continue to bowl any tournament that will put out something other than a house shot cause competition is what it is all about.

I am hoping for less confusion on tournaments you run in the future.


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Mike L

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 02:06:54 PM »
First off thanks, I appreciate the support guys.

 

How did I answer my own question?  Read you statement here

 

Thirdly you answered your own question by what you hi-lighted in your statement above (pins do not carry over after the first round). The single elimination was seeded according to the matchplay round as would be suspected (1vs 8, 2 vs 7 etc.) The matchplay round also determined your seeding in the stepladder round.

 

Your original post says AFTER the first round pins do NOT carry over.  Now maybe im just dumb but to me that means in the 2nd 3rd 4th 72nd round NO PINS WILL CARRY OVER EVER!

 

And the seeding determination was NEVER mentioned at any given time thoughtout the day.  After the first 5 game block we all went up and drew random lanes for the match play, so sorry but to me the obvious assumption is we would be drawing randomly for the next round. 

 

Anyone on here that bowled a Jim Smith tourney knows the quick and cheap and the big one always drew randomly.  Pretty sure theres quite a handful of guys that may have had the highest qualifying score then lost first match and got nothing, it happens and we all know that.  Now if you were going to seed people by the 3 games which includes bonus pins and throw out that first 5 games that should have been stated to begin with.

 

Heres another point about this dumb format...

 

Bowler A minus 100 first 5

Bowler B Plus 200 first 5

 

Bowler A sneaks in shoots 200 200 200 Wins his 3 matches

Bowler B leads shoots 190 190 190 Loses all 3

 

Now your paying 5 but taking the top 4 scores, (which I have no issue with) but also was never mentioned how that would be determined 

 

Both make the head to head elimnation game

Bowler A is #1 seed

Bowler B is #7 seed

 

Bowler A shoots 110 Loses

Bowler B shoots 270 Loses

 

Your logic is bowler A gets the check?????  Are you f*cking kidding me?????

 

If there is anyone that bowls at all that can understand this please tell me and let me know

 

 


"Typical House Bowler"

Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 02:23:55 PM »
Why not just bowl 5 games, make a cut...have the pins carry over.  Bowl 3 more games with the 30 pins bouns also added to the carry over scores.
 
Then take the top 5 to the stepladder.
 
Why does it have to be so difficult for the bowlers to understand??? 



spmcgivern

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 02:28:26 PM »
It does look like there was a lot of confusion in this tournament.  I run small potatoes tournaments so this issue is something I am paying attention to in order to educate myself to things that may come up in my tournaments.

In reference to, "After the first round pins do not carry over." I would interpret this as the pins scored in the first round do not count in the second round.  I would have assumed any pins and bonus pins scored in the second round would be used in any placing further along in the tournament.  Mike, you say you experimented in game 3 of the match play and I understand why.  But how did you think matchplay was going to be determined?  I can't imagine it being by draw.  There had to be something to determine who bowled who, and to me that would have been total pins plus bonus in round two.  I just want to know other bowler's inference of rules for my benefit.

One other thing I don't agree with in this tournament is the paying of fifth place money to high second round score.  I can understand giving high qualifier some money if he/she is eliminated, but you might as well give high qualifier money irregardless of his/her finish.  I agree with Mike on this point.

It is unfortunate something like this happened and it is something I try very hard to establish before my tournament even starts.  I even reiterate the basics of the tournament before practice to make sure everyone understands what will take place.


I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com

spmcgivern

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 02:30:38 PM »
I agree.  When I see tournaments try to invent new ways to make sure everyone is happy bad things happen.  The simpler the format, the fewer questions that are asked and fewer issues arise.
 



Xx 12 X 300 xX wrote on 3/6/2012 1:23 PM:
Why not just bowl 5 games, make a cut...have the pins carry over.  Bowl 3 more games with the 30 pins bouns also added to the carry over scores.

 

Then take the top 5 to the stepladder.

 

Why does it have to be so difficult for the bowlers to understand??? 




I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com

Mike L

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 02:55:53 PM »
I can see your point on the wording.

 

However in this area we have bowled many tournaments in this area that we come up and just draw for a lane and its the luck of the draw just like the previous 3 games of match play was. 

 

I completely get the fact that those scores should have have determined the seeding, I do disagree that the first 5 games got thrown out, but that the fact is HE NEVER SAID THE 3 GAME TOTAL WOULD DETERMINE THE SEEDING FOR THE ELIMINATION GAME!  That and the fact the the #1 seed was guaranteed a check is my issues with this tournament.


"Typical House Bowler"

Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 03:46:54 PM »
Sounds like the bowlers and the tournament director had no idea what  format was to be used.
 
This is a recipe for disaster.
 
There are enough tournaments on the East Coast, pick one and mimic it or at least ask some of the tournament bowlers what they feel are the best formats.
 
Inventing formats always end up a mess. 

 
 
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 3/7/2012 at 9:17 AM

coasterp

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2012, 07:48:36 AM »
Agreed. Please see my post above. It's called the Eliminator format and works very well. I have never heard anyone complain about it. What is really nice about it is that during tournaments that hold multiple qualifying sqauds, bowlers know for a fact at the end of their squad if they have made the cut or not. There is no waiting around all day to find out you just missed. many rebowl if they did not make it. This helps boost entries.
 



Xx 12 X 300 xX wrote on 3/6/2012 2:46 PM:
Sounds like the bowlers and the tournament director had no idea what the format to be used was.

 

This is a recipe for disaster.

 

There are enough tournaments on the East Coast, pick one and mimic it or at least ask some of the tournament bowlers what they feel are the best formats.

 

Inventing formats always end up a mess. 


 

Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 3/6/2012 at 2:47 PM



kennie300

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 12:06:11 PM »
Mike....next time tear up all the brackets. It will make you feel better.lol

the legend lives on....

proform

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Re: My personal rant about John Parks tournament from 3/4/12
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »
mike
why would there be 30 bonus pins for a win if the pins were not going to carry over for seeding. you obviously knew there was cary over pins as you used that in your rant. you are sounding like a whiner.
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