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Author Topic: Tournament Attendance Down  (Read 5299 times)

wildbush300

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Tournament Attendance Down
« on: October 27, 2008, 12:44:02 AM »
Do you think the economy has alot to do with the decline in entries for local tournaments?

Just wanted to talk about this today, with yet another declining day on Wall Street.

Yes we all have regular attendees that participate in the tournaments but have we gotten down to just the core tourney bowlers who are committing funds to tournament play.   That is about 25 bowlers per event and maybe another 10 who trickle in and out?

Are we heading into a recession where those access funds are just to precious to take a chance?  

I dont know for sure, but I see a definite trend right now, what about you?
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wildbush300

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 11:22:53 AM »
Interesting.   30+ views and no replies.
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MAJM

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 11:25:48 AM »
Down here in SWFL there has been a decline in participation. The claim is the economy but we're getting closer to the holidays and around here and entries usually go down.
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Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 11:40:20 AM »
Could be a mixture of things.  Here in Michigan we have a really big tournament series here.  I stopped for a couple reasons.

1) I moved and started college again, so I can't afford to be bowling

2) The lane conditions were super easy and the guys in the series are all stars that can score on anything.  You had to average 233+ just to make the cut, then unless you shot about 800 the next 3 being in the bottom you weren't going anywhere anyways.  It got frustrating, because they were all over Michigan, and the drive wasn't worth it.

Mostly because I'm not that good and don't feel like donating all the time...
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Gazoo

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 08:55:02 AM »
Common sense. 2/3 of tournament bowlers are donaters. When the economy heads south, people feel they have less to donate. Paying the bills always has priority.
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los2003

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 09:15:38 AM »
I agree I'm in mich too and the shots are either very easy or very hard. I think they do it so everyone will feel like they have a chance to win.. but you hav to shoot 750 to 800 most times to win. so if you get tapped a couple times you are doomed.

quote:
Could be a mixture of things.  Here in Michigan we have a really big tournament series here.  I stopped for a couple reasons.

1) I moved and started college again, so I can't afford to be bowling

2) The lane conditions were super easy and the guys in the series are all stars that can score on anything.  You had to average 233+ just to make the cut, then unless you shot about 800 the next 3 being in the bottom you weren't going anywhere anyways.  It got frustrating, because they were all over Michigan, and the drive wasn't worth it.

Mostly because I'm not that good and don't feel like donating all the time...
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Mike L

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 02:53:57 PM »
Heres my .02 on this topic.  I have discussed this with a couple directors too.

I bowl in several different areas in VA, MD, and PA.  In the northern virginia and baltimore area it seems that all the directors there are making the shots more competitive and trust me id much rather have to avg 210 and make money then 250, however most of the so called "donaters" as people call them, are not participating for that reason just as much as the economy.  For example if a guy is paying twice as much for gas then he was, then he looks at ways to save, the first thing he says is well im not making money bowling.  And lets say this guy is a 220 house bowler but particpates alot in tournaments with little success, because the director has put out a PBA pattern, how many times do you think that guy is going to keep coming out and bowling?  However if the shot is close to what he bowls on and feels he can compete, he may still be bowling to try and make a few extra bucks to pay for that increase in gas and everything else.  Several tournaments in that area are WAY down in entries and almost little side action anymore.  And on top of that sometimes it takes rocket science to figure out some of the formats the directors are making for the tournaments.

Now in the Chambersburg area, they have a tournament every sunday at one of the houses in the 20-30 mile area there.  Most are the same format, bowl 6 games cut to top 5 for stepladder.  Entry fee is $30, payout ratio is 1:3 (which I think is way to high 1:6 should be the ratio).  On top of gettting 40-60 people at every tournament, they get anywhere from 40-100 brackets and guess what THEY ARE DEAD WALLED!  Like I said I hate bowling on that stuff but those for now are the places that I can make money at.  

Now I know people are gonna complain that they don't wanna bowl on house shots, but heres the question, do you want 20 guys with 10 brackets with an $60-80 entry fee or 40-60 guys for a $30 entry with lots of side action?  Because I know for a fact that the handful of guys that are still bowling every sunday like myself are going to bowl no matter what anyway, so in my opinion to get the local house guys and the over inflated average guys to participate, the directors are going to have to start making the shots easier.  Guys like myself, Cavey, and the handful of others that always bowl are still going to bowl because its not a hobby to us, its a part time job and we will adapt to the environment.

Make it simple, cheap, and easy and entries will come!


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Edited on 10/28/2008 4:01 PM

baer300

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 08:13:22 AM »
I have to agree with Mike on this. He very true with the Chambersburg area thing, as their entries have not seen the decrease that others have. I enjoy bowling on tougher shots as well, just don't always have the time to make it to alot of the tourneys that I want bowl. I for one know a couple of people who won't bowl on tougher conditions because they need the big area to play. I do not agree with the easy conditions of today but it is  what it is. As Mile said an average Joe that averages 220 on a house shot is typically not going to bowl on a tough shot due to they are usually not that good with making shots.
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wildbush300

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 10:13:56 AM »
Hi Mike,

I will definitely take that into account.  I dont know about a house shot and I usually do USBC patterns, but I definitely thought about that as well.
As for entry fee, lineage is up and unless you have a off peak time any real format costs.  You cant have alot of games and a nice payout with a $50 entry. You just cant do it in these centers.

When I had my tournament on Sats and it was the house shot with variation due to the youth league bowling on it prior to my tournament... entries were pretty big.  I guess in some ways you have to decide what your trying to create as a TD.  My Mens and womens tournaments had 33 & 34 bowlers respectively but most who attended got in everything and therefore the pots & brackets were more than decent for the number of participants.    The shot was competitive and so were the bowlers.

I guess we just have to decide who our intended audience is going to be and live with it.   I prefer not to have a shootout when I am traveling or not and like to feel the people who win or cash have earned it and not just had the better matchup with ball aand Carry.  However, I do agree that maybe some are down due to the patterns as well, especially since the economy is not thriving.
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dpunky

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 01:25:46 PM »
Mike has some good points in his post.  My reason for not entering tournaments after I came back from the USBC Open in Albuquerque has come down to my economic situation and the on going down turn of the economy.  I like bowling tournaments because of the competition and the opportunity to bowl against the best bowlers in the area.  I wasn't the best bowler coming out of my league (didn't average a 200), but wanted better bowlers to bowl against, regardless if I won or loss.  But I just was losing more money entering these tournaments because I was not able to even cash.  I know that I needed more time to work on my game before entering another tournament.  Plus I was making more money passing certification exams, because my company reimburses me for the exam fee, and gives me a sizeable bonus for passing each certification exam.  This bonus is a lot more money than the top prize in a bowling tournament or winning a league.  With some certifications requiring two or more tests, I can make a lot of money in a short amount of time.  

Another reason that I don't enter some tournaments is that my center never advertises them.  They may hide the tournament flyer, or never even put it out.  Plus know one in my league even enters tournaments.  If it wasn't for this website, I would have no clue if a tournament was hapenning in my area.
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Edited on 10/29/2008 1:26 PM

SKIDSNAP

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2008, 01:31:01 PM »
It is the $30 entry fee that draws the bowlers not the lane condition.  You would get decent entries with a $30 fee no matter what pattern you put down.


Mike L

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2008, 02:15:21 PM »
Before the economy, yes, now with the economy, no its not gonna happen.  Your average league bowler is not just gonna give away at least $30 every sunday.  A prime example of this is the tournament that Suburban Bowlerama in York use to run.  Use to be $35 entry fee, bowl 4 games, brackets 2-4 and Alex would max people like me out at 99.  Well word got out that if you shoot 210s across the boards you wacked them, so more and more of the better bowlers started going up there and winning all the money and guess who stopped bowling, all the so called "donaters" and the entry fee was the same and the economy was in better shape then but your local league bowlers are not gonna just keep giving away their money when they feel they have no shot to win.

I just bowled the hagerstown doubles tourney this week on a dead wall, 40 teams, 86 single brackets, 30 team brackets.  Now next month for some reason the guy is going to put down a kegel pattern instead of his house shot, should be real interesting to see how many of their regulars participate.

All im saying is from my point in bowling the last 6 years or so in many different environments and tournaments, it seems to me that the people that are getting the entries are the ones that have these cheap easy tournaments.
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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2008, 03:28:05 PM »
Wildbush300,
Why don't you try something that gives back to the prize fund to attract bowlers?  Maybe something like $2.50 per bracket gets put back into the prize fund if there are lower than 50 entries.  I believe $5 is the noraml take now.  Putting up $65 and 5th paying $75 on 40 entries is just rediculous.  I know the money can only be spread so much around but it's a bad investment to bowl tournaments these days.  The lane conditions do need to be easier to attract entries so the previous post's are correct on that.  As long as you can get the bowlers there a few times with good ideas just maybe they might keep coming back.
You have to spend money to make money.
Just a thought.

Mr Straight Ball

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2008, 03:30:29 PM »
I am going to weigh in on this topic as a bowler and as some who runs tournaments (www.40boards.com). I’ve been having this very talk with Walton (www.vmsbt.com) and some of my friends who bowl any and everything. Before I move forward, let me break down the economics:

•   3-4 $175-220 balls
•   1 $140 bag
•   1 $120 pair of shoes
•   $30-200 tournaments

You do the math! Who wants to spend that kind of dough to shoot 160, 170, 180 games every time they bowl a tournament. We all have egos and we want to stroke them with big scores so that when we are standing around the cooler we can brag about what we bowled. The core group of tournament bowlers keep screaming “MAKE ‘EM TOUGH!” but in the process the occasional tournament bowlers are lost. If you are the cream of the crop, you will find your way to the top regardless of the scoring pace. Some of the very people crying the scores are to high use to roll a lot of high scores too.

So now you are asking, where is the middle of the road scoring pattern? GOOD LUCK! Luck is just what 40 Boards experienced at Opposites Attract this past June when we shortened the house shot a little. The shot allowed folks to wear the pocket out but the scoring pace was reasonable as it took a team average of 413.4 to make the first cut and 428.8 after 14 games to cash. Year one of the doubles tournament, we had something way to hard down and finding a happy bowler was almost impossible to find. When I say hard, there were 72 bowlers and maybe 13 (18% of the field) averaged 200 and the field was talented with some solid amateur talent including: Fero Williams, George Gohagan and now exempt PBA members Edward VanDaniker, Joy Esterson Trisha Reid & Jen Petrick. The field looked a lot happier this year until the air conditioning died. People ask me all of the time, what about the happy median. If putting out something in the middle was so easy, we’d all do it at our tournaments now. The left-right issue is here to stay just like the 500 RPM people against the 250rpm people is here to stay.

I’ll be the first to say, the PBAx patterns are turning into something impossible to duplicate. One time you need a sanded ball to play the Cheetah and the next time you need a white dot at the same center. Did any of you go to VMSBT’s September event? The Scorpion was down – man were people crying the blues when they could not keep up with the scoring pace. The only thing I heard during and after the event was how VMSBT messed up. Did VMSBT lay the pattern down or did the center lay the pattern down? And then people were bumping their gums to those that would listen about how high scoring it was. Peep last December’s stop at the very same Country Club when Rhino Page set the PTQ scoring mark. That surface just matches to the pattern for some reason. There was a tournament in Virginia that went to the Chameleon for their weekly tournament after varying the patterns previously. Man, the middle of the lane was like carpet and the lefties were playing somewhere left of 8 and even scuffing their balls. Of course it held up since there were like 5 in the field of 30. Guess which bowlers benefited from this the most? LOL Some of us are starting to learn that when the house shot is down, it can be unpredictable too as centers aren’t oiling or just running their morning shot on what’s left from the previous day.

Some are speculating that a lower entry fee will bring entries. I’ve heard $500 up top is not worth coming. I’ll do the math this time winning $500 at a tournament that take 3 hours is like having a full-time career paying you $346K a year. Each of us has to decide why we are there. There are bowlers who bowl because they want to improve and realize they need to bowl against stronger bowlers, then there are those bowling for the competition (at least that’s what I hear from the PBA regional supporters) and then of course there are those there for the hustle aka the money.

If you want to know how to bring the entries, take a look at the tournaments that have a lot of entries. To start, they are annual events so they feel special. Oh yeah, the field can strike too. Or there is a big top prize whether based on entries or guaranteed and we all believe we can win!
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Mr Straight Ball

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Re: Tournament Attendance Down
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2008, 03:40:09 PM »
To confirm what someone said earlier, it is hard finding out about tournaments if you aren't in the know. So it's our job as tournament organizations to promote our events.
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