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Author Topic: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?  (Read 8175 times)

Mr Straight Ball

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Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« on: October 10, 2007, 03:55:41 AM »
It boggles my mind when I look at the Greater Baltimore yearbook and see 60 names on the high average page with the last name showing 222. I know the Capital Assn is no different.

So why aren't more high average bowlers out competing against one another?
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Phoneman

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2007, 12:05:50 PM »
As one of those 60 names you are refering to.  Simply put I dont have the time to spend my weekends in a center bowling tournaments.  With 3 kids and all of thier activities it is tough.  Besides that I know of most of those on that list and no I am not afraid of them but I also know that there is only a 50/50 shot at beating them.  Why put up $$$ on a coin flip?

nutsforbowling

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2007, 12:49:47 PM »
As another of those 60 names(being just on it with 222), I work all weekend, and there aren't a lot of scratch tourneys around here anyway. Everything is geared toward the handicap bowler, and I prefer not to give people pins that I know have been sandbagging to get those pins. The only tourneys I bowl in anymore are the nationals and the Petersen in Chicago. I don't even bother with the city or state because they are just carry contests, and the money is pitiful. Oh yeah, I'm just a house hack anyway, only averaging 197 in my PBA league.
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dpunky

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2007, 01:10:39 PM »
In the Arlington/Alexandria/Fairfax area, there are not that many tournaments, let alone scratch tournaments.  I don't see any Scratch Leagues.  Plus alot of the good bowlers don't want to put their inflated averages on the line on a sport or PBA condition.

Most bowlers just bowl competitive leagues during the week and have their weekends free.
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dogman666

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2007, 01:30:54 PM »
I bowl at Burke and we used to have back to back Commercial leagues on Thursday night 20 years ago that filled the house with at least 20 teams.  Now we have one with 8 teams.  The traffic is also an issue especially if you have it anywhere near the Redskins stadium.  Also the Wilson Bridge poses a problem.  Essentially we have a huge area but the Potomac river keeps everyone on each others respective side.  What we ought to do is just do some pot games if we get enough interest.

dogman666

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2007, 01:34:11 PM »
I could provide at least 5-8 people as long as it stayed in VA.  If you bowl at Burke I'll provide the beer!

CHILLX

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 02:09:21 PM »
Come on down to NC in January and bowl in my $5,000 first place scratch tournament. I had alot of bowlers from that area the last 2 years and a couple of guys made the top 16. Its a fair tournament for the amount of the entry fee you pay ($120.00), compared to a regional were you pay $250.00 to $ 275.00 and do not get but $2500.00 must of the time. And a plus you can drink beer at my tournament all you want. And re-enter as many times as you want (5 Squads).
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dogman666

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2007, 02:14:50 PM »
Where in NC

TripFour

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2007, 02:19:07 PM »
quote:
I bowl at Burke and we used to have back to back Commercial leagues on Thursday night 20 years ago that filled the house with at least 20 teams.  Now we have one with 8 teams.  The traffic is also an issue especially if you have it anywhere near the Redskins stadium.  Also the Wilson Bridge poses a problem.  Essentially we have a huge area but the Potomac river keeps everyone on each others respective side.  What we ought to do is just do some pot games if we get enough interest.


Yeah, it's a sad sight at Burke now.  The good old days of a good commercial league have been gone for 10 years or more.  It's a shame too, because the conditions the past two seasons are much better than they have been in years.  

That said, I kinda feel like more scratch bowlers would be interested in tournaments if the conditions were somewhere between a "wall" and a sport shot.  I think the problem a lot of people run into is the conditions are sometimes geared more toward one type of player.  I find those shots challenging, but many people won't bowl, because they don't feel they have a chance to at least cash.

Edited on 10/11/2007 8:34 AM

CHILLX

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2007, 03:08:25 PM »
Dogman, sent info TTT.....
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I_Bowl4Money

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Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 08:32:41 AM »
MSB,

I understand why you are feeling a bit boggled over the participation of scratch bowlers in the area.  There are a few factors that I've seen over the past 15 years of running tournaments that has contributed to the decline in participation.

One huge factor I see now is that none of the tournaments are offering any prize money and the prize ratios are mostly 1:6 and sometimes 1:5 if you're lucky.

Nothing is GUARANTEED anymore, everything is B.O.E. and that is NOT a GUARANTEE!  I'm not sure if you were a part of the Nation's Capital Masters Tournament Club, but when we ran that event we averaged 80+ bowlers and several times maxed out at 120.  Part of that was because we had a prize ratio of 1:4 and we GUARANTEED anywhere from $1200 to $1500 for 1st along with 2nd and 3rd being GUARANTEED as well.

So I ask you this question...would you rather pay $60 or $80 to bowl for $500 or $800 based on 30 Entries?  Or would you like to pay $75-$85 and bowl for $1500, $750, $400 GUARANTEED PRIZE with 1:4 Prize Ratio?

I'm hoping I can make it out to Tony's this weekend and yours in a couple of weeks.  Don't get frustrated, sometimes it gets like this, but you're doing a great job just stay positive.
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    Mr Straight Ball

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    Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
    « Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 12:09:27 PM »
    Bowl4Money - What's up! You are right, we'd all love to bowl for more money but the reality is that the scratch bowlers have to get out & support so that a sponsor is more likely to add to the cause. Hopefully you'll be out and bowling these coming weekends.
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    I saw a response that touched on the what seems the real concern. I don' want to take a chance. Life is about taking chances, how do you know you cannot beat the next bowler until you try.

    For those who say there aren't any tournaments, there are 3 or more tournaments every month to bowl. And no we cannot make 'em all but here are some good examples...
    Superior Mixed Doubles (Cleveland, OH) - 25% or more of the field is from MD/VA/DC
    Bacardi Classic (Cleveland. OH) - Plenty of local bowlers are there in Feb that have some reason they can never make a tournament at home
    Rhodman - I cannot tell you how many people I see there bowling their one tournament a year against seasoned bowlers.
    York - Last week, 27 entries and maybe 7-10 people tops were not GBBA or NCABA members.

    Our area bowlers travel here and there but when it's down the street it's like we are afraid to let someone see us bowl bad. I am glad to see some area bowlers chimed in as it gave some input as to why quote on scratch bowlers aren't bowling outside of their house.
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    CHILLX

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    Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
    « Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 02:57:26 PM »
    I depend on the out of house bowlers to come and bowl my tournament. Its funny we have about 25 scratch bowlers in our house and only 5 or 6 come and bowl in my scratch tournament in January. Again for the amount of money you put in and all the scratch brackets that are run you cant beat  it. I had some guys last year walk away with $1,000 to $1,500.00 just in brackets bowled not counting there prize money. And with last cash spot
    paying $450.00 its a great turn around on your money. And I forgot you get to drink beer thats a plus........

    Later, see ya ball reviewers in January......
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    wabullets

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    Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
    « Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 03:13:46 PM »
    MSB,

    It is a double edge sword. You are right, local bowlers NEED to support the local tournament scene on the other hand, folks that run it need to give them a reason to support the tournament. Just because someone is taking they are taking time to run a tournament doesnt mean it is worthy of support. I know I can be called part of the problem because I do not support the local tournament scene much anymore. I have an easier time finding a reason to drive 4-5 hours to Long Island, NY or Bradford, PA or Waverly, NY or Catskill, NY to compete in the Eastern Region than I do a local tournament. Some of the reasons..

    1. Gurantees. Which were mentioned in someone elses post. I know I am bowling for atleast 12.5 times my entry for 1st. $400 guaranteed for cashing 33% of the field. When you cash or even when you win, you have a sense of achievment and pride that you did something good. By and large you competed against some of the best the east coast has to offer which often includes at least 5 expempt players or more.

    2. Conditions. There are no surprises. You know what you are getting generally a fair and competitive shot whether you are right or left handed. Lanes are done by a "professional" lanesman with a machine that is kept up to spec. Local tourney you will either get a house shot or if they try to put something down, lord knows what you will end up with most the time.

    3. Operation of the tournment. A 12pm start is a 12pm start not a 12:20 start because someone is lost or stuck in traffic. It is better to make 1 bowler mad than the 40 who did show up on time.

    4. Start times. In the VMSBT case, my opinion, Noon is a terrible start time. This tournament should be starting at 10am.

    5. Promotion of the tournament. Some tournaments get higher number of bowlers. Why? Why does the girl who runs the tournament at Greenway in August get more entries, double or even triple the entries of other tournaments? Better promotion? More popular? All the bowlers are friends and family? What is she doing better?

    6. If tournaments are going to have websites, they should be updated in a timely manner. Displaying results of the just complete tourament and promoting the next tournament. It is good that you and VMSBT are cross promoting and that you are promotiong other tournaments on your site. It can only help.

    7. Sense of achievment. When bowlers when that local tournament, do they feel like the achieved some? Accomplished a goal? Or just meant they won more bracket money today? My guess would be the third. I am not sure how you put the sense of achievment or accomplishment back in to local bowling.

    There is a lot to do to fix the local tournament scene. A big undertaking for whomever wants to attempt it. It can be done,I am sure and if done right, it wouldnt even so much depend on the local bowler right. Your doubles tourney proved that with atleast 6 states represented.

    Bowl4money, your dad ran a top notch tournament organization. The best this area has seen in my opinion. The end of his club was the end of good scratch bowling in this area in my opinion. It was run like a professional event by a no nonsense guy. I think people running tournaments can look back upon when they competed in The Masters and take the good from it and combine it with what they are trying to do to make a more succesful business model for their tournaments.

    In closing, sorry for being so long winded.  

    willie makeit

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    Re: Where are the scratch bowlers in MD/DC/VA?
    « Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 11:26:17 PM »
    It's called house bowlers and the fact they are really not as good as they think they are. Can you imagine......someone with over a 220 average saying they won't bowl in tournaments because they can't beat the other people. What does that tell you? I know plenty of high average bowlers that would never venture out of 2-3 houses at most. Want a real laugh? Ask them to bowl on any type of pattern other than with a bumper.