Post by: Nicanor on September 18, 2007, 01:05:12 AM
I really can't find any information (well, very little) on the website and what little information it does have has write over on the information that is there on Balls: The Break.
They should take the website down until at least they can fix the small amount of information that is there.
I realize they are a newly formed manufactuer, but even more so that they would have a professional website if they were to have one at all.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/18/2007 9:05 AM
Edited on 9/18/2007 9:06 AM
Edited on 9/18/2007 9:07 AM
Edited on 9/18/2007 9:07 AM
Post by: REVerse on September 18, 2007, 09:10:58 AM
quote:
I don't know if its my computer or that the 900 Global website looks terribe.
I really can't find any information (well, very little) on the website and what little information it does have has write over on the information that is there on Balls: The Break.
They should take the website down until at least they can fix the small amount of information that is there.
I realize they are a newly formed manufactuer, but even more so that they would have a professional website if they were to have one at all.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
It is somewhat lame compared to others.
--------------------
Ray
"SUPPORT PRO SHOPS"
Edited on 9/18/2007 9:11 AM
Post by: Bar5003 on September 18, 2007, 09:22:01 AM
--------------------
~Britton~Owner and Operator of
www.videoballreviews.com
VISE inserts The OFFICAL grip of videoballreviews.com
www.viseinserts.com
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on September 18, 2007, 09:29:37 AM
Post by: scotts33 on September 18, 2007, 09:32:39 AM
bamaster aka Tony M. did Dyno-Thane's for Phil I believe maybe he will do Global 900's.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: splendorlex on September 18, 2007, 09:34:17 AM
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...
Post by: EricThomas on September 18, 2007, 09:47:47 AM
--------------------
900 Global/AMF Sales Manager
Post by: shelley on September 18, 2007, 10:26:47 AM
quote:
Eric...look at the Lanemasters web site. http://www.lanemastersbowling.com/ It's top notch. Very professional with lots of information. I wouldn't say copy it exactly, but it can give you some ideas of what a ball manufacturer's web site can be with a little effort.
Flashturbation is not professional, top-notch, or any other adjective you would use to describe a good website. It sucks.
It's not indexable, you can't search it. Screen readers don't understand it. You can't copy and paste text.
You can't link to anything but the front page. Why should I have to go through "Loading....1%....2%...." to find the factory finish on a ball that came out three years ago? Why can't I save a link to the factory finishes page?
It doesn't properly obey things like scroll wheels. It's frickin' 2007, you can't even buy a mouse without a scroll wheel without trying really, really hard. Why should I have to click on the four pixels on a flash-based scroll bar to scroll the text? This isn't 1991, it's 2007 (frickin' 2007, even).
It's CPU-inefficient, I have machines that go 100% CPU usage on any flash site, whether there's fancy animation or not. Not old machines, either.
You can't resize the text, Flash completely ignores the user's text size and font preferences. How many hundreds of Flash sites use light-colored text on a light background with a small font that looks hip, slick, cool, or unique (like every other lame-ash Flash site that does the same thing)?
I go to the Lanemasters website to find information on the balls. I don't go to be wowed by how totally awesome some jackhole is with Dreamweaver.
"Oh, but I need Flash to show this movie of Fred Borden." No, you don't. Quicktime was doing it (better, and on more platforms) long before Flash was given unholy life by the Prince of Darkness.
You could do away with Flash altogether and the quality of the collective Internet would double.
SH
Edited on 9/18/2007 10:27 AM
Post by: tekneek on September 18, 2007, 10:31:58 AM
--------------------
Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
512-755-2947
Visit www.leadingedgeproshop.com
http://stores.ebay.com/Leading-Edge-Pro-Shop
Paypal address : tekneek@wildblue.net
Post by: Dan Belcher on September 18, 2007, 10:32:25 AM
Post by: newguy on September 18, 2007, 10:36:34 AM
Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel
We should as Eric mentioned have a decent site that is informative. We are not in the entertainment business, we are information providers.
Post by: shelley on September 18, 2007, 10:38:06 AM
quote:
say what you feel Shelley...J/K...I agree with you, nothing worse than waiting on a site when you have a simple question.
The Internet is supposed to be platform neutral, collaborative, and accessible to everyone. I spend a lot of time on "alternative" platforms that aren't Windows XP with Internet Explorer. I use OS X on Macs, a dozen flavors of Linux, old Windows computers, Solaris on Suns, Firefox, Camino, Safari, Mozilla, Netscape. Given that all of those systems agree to support a very large feature set that place very little restrictions on what the user and developer can do, it seems silly to choose the lamest, least useful "solution" you can find.
SH
Post by: splendorlex on September 18, 2007, 10:40:18 AM
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...
Post by: Nicanor on September 18, 2007, 04:44:06 PM
The website should just say, this website temporaily not in service, we are currently building an outstanding website that all can enjoy or something similar.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/18/2007 4:52 PM
Post by: tenpin on September 18, 2007, 05:26:52 PM
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global: The world is ours
www.900global.com
Post by: KingCranker on September 18, 2007, 10:44:24 PM
quote:
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global: The world is ours
www.900global.com
of course your going to agree with Eric...lol
but really I also believe Eric,the site will be top notch and atleast they do have a site to let you know they are trying.
Paco
--------------------
Bowling,where Striking Out is a good thing!
my Email and PayPal Crazy.Hoops5@verizon.net
Post by: MI 2 AZ on September 18, 2007, 11:44:39 PM
quote:
You could do away with Flash altogether and the quality of the collective Internet would double.
I agree with Shelley.
I am also seeing the double or writeover on text like Nicanor is.
I tried to do a copy and paste of the text so someone else could see how I am seeing it but I am unable to copy it.
Ok, a little experimenting - I am able to view it fine using Firefox. Only with IE do I have a problem. What browser is Nicanor using?
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: shelley on September 18, 2007, 11:55:10 PM
quote:
I guess I don't understand the whole reason coming on here bashing a web site for things that your computer is doing.
But it isn't just what his computer is doing. Computers are (supposedly) deterministic; feed them the same input and you should get the same result both times.
And for that matter, it does the same thing on my machine. Mac OS X with the Camino browser (a Firefox derivative, so not just an IE/Windows problem).
When your website fails to convey information, you lose. It's not bashing the website; I applaud them for having a simple, plain design compared to some other companies.
SH
Post by: Nicanor on September 19, 2007, 12:20:03 AM
The reason I bought this up was because my Break didn't come with a drill/info sheet. So I wanted to look on linbe at 900 Globals website to see if they had their drill sheets on their websites and a little mor conversation about the bowling balls they have on the market.
It can't be that hard to put out a little more info and a copy of their drill sheets on the website.
With bowling balls coming out with "drill similar to this" (Beat'n, No Mercy and Ebonite's "The One" don't drill like this. Well a new company starts to sell their bowling balls after a lot of R&D and we the consumer don't know much about the ball, core strength, MB strength coverstock prep and a lot of other information that could easily be added to a website.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: newguy on September 19, 2007, 10:09:27 AM
Post by: shelley on September 19, 2007, 10:17:30 AM
quote:
Shouldn't your pro shop be able to help you will drill patterns. They are the experts. Most normal asymmetrical drillings are the same as are normal symmetrical drilling are the same.
Most are, but every now and then you run into one that isn't. The No Mercy, which was mentioned in this thread, has unusual drill instruction. "Spin spot right, left, under thumb" is fine, except the spin spot on the NM isn't marked like it is on most asymetrics.
He just wanted to make sure there weren't any special requirements for laying it out.
BTW, you mentioned putting it left of the thumb; does that mean that it's safe to put the MB on the negative side of the ball or in the track? Morich and Ebonite are recommending against that because it can make the ball reverse flare. Has to do with the really large mid-diff, I think, and the Break certainly falls in that "really large mid-diff" category.
SH
Post by: dizzyfugu on September 19, 2007, 10:19:04 AM
quote:
Whew, Shelly take a breath, LOL
Yeah, but that's right. I hate it when marketing department loses sense and becomes "german": rather use high tech and pointless technical gimmicks than think of the site visitors, ease of orientation and the fact that some people out there just use simple hard- and software.
Even "old" HTML can look good, be functional and transport whatever you want to say.
The LM site looks nice, but it is a hell to navigate - shelley just hit it right.
That's also why I like this grey/dull place here - it is simple and fast!
--------------------
DizzyFugu (http://"http://www.putfile.com/dizzyfugu/") - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling?
Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: JMORRIS on September 19, 2007, 10:35:45 AM
quote:
BTW, you mentioned putting it left of the thumb
That's how us lefties do it. Maybe that is what he was referring too.
Post by: Stan on September 19, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
Shelly, you proved that you know a lot of computer lingo, so what ! Lighten up and give the folks a break. If you have real computer issues, then get back to the people that can correct them and don't go off on folks that have no idea as to what you are talking about.
Post by: scotts33 on September 19, 2007, 10:40:43 AM
Now that being said as most of us that visit BR.com are above the curve in understanding and want as much info. as we can glean.
Soooo, nic wanted more info. than the website offers after start up. Phil, I think is saying we as a company Global 900 want to see our product move thru pro shops and our pro shop operators should be providing you the customer all the info. to get any Global 900 ball laid out correctly for your technique and fitted correctly.
Sometimes, we <BR users> can be our own worst enemy. I can see Phil's point of view. I also can see nic's wanting of more info. It will come I am sure just not quick enough for some.
Society's problem of getting information via the net so fast that we want it as fast as we can get it....sometimes we just need to slow down and smell the coffee.
BTW, I though shelley's point about website's is right on and I do consider LM's website to be one of the better ones as far as gloss is concerned.
Many website's are not user friendly but I am no techy.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: shelley on September 19, 2007, 10:57:19 AM
quote:
Shelly, you proved that you know a lot of computer lingo, so what ! Lighten up and give the folks a break. If you have real computer issues, then get back to the people that can correct them and don't go off on folks that have no idea as to what you are talking about.
You honestly believe that because the 900G website fails to render properly on a dozen different computers that it's because my laptop is defective? I don't have real computer issues, there is a bug in the website. I don't care if it's a priority or not, I don't care if it's fixed in a timely fashion or not. That's their business. I get most of the information I need from this site anyway. I know Phil isn't a web designer and (probably) isn't responsible for fixing the web page.
I don't feel like my preference for websites that are user friendly, at the expense of glitz, is out of line with most people, and that's more than evidenced by the responses to my post.
SH
Post by: qstick777 on September 19, 2007, 11:43:27 AM
I agree that a drill sheet would be nice. If for no other reason than I like to keep that info in a folder. Having to constantly run to the internet to get the information isn't always practical - I guess I can just print that info from the web - until you run into what happened with Track and the new company takes the information away!
Speaking of Track, why don't I hear any complaints about their drilling sheet being in Word (doc) format? Like Shelley said, it's frickin' 2007. It isn't that hard to convert a document to PDF.
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Post by: shelley on September 19, 2007, 11:46:10 AM
quote:
Speaking of Track, why don't I hear any complaints about their drilling sheet being in Word (doc) format? Like Shelley said, it's frickin' 2007. It isn't that hard to convert a document to PDF.
I haven't thrown Track in a while, so I have nothing to complain about.
SH
Post by: newguy on September 19, 2007, 11:59:49 AM
quote:
I'm thinking about what Phil said and that is the point of Global 900 going thru pro shops only in that good pro shop operators should know all this info.
Now that being said as most of us that visit BR.com are above the curve in understanding and want as much info. as we can glean.
Soooo, nic wanted more info. than the website offers after start up. Phil, I think is saying we as a company Global 900 want to see our product move thru pro shops and our pro shop operators should be providing you the customer all the info. to get any Global 900 ball laid out correctly for your technique and fitted correctly.
Sometimes, we <BR users> can be our own worst enemy. I can see Phil's point of view. I also can see nic's wanting of more info. It will come I am sure just not quick enough for some.
Society's problem of getting information via the net so fast that we want it as fast as we can get it....sometimes we just need to slow down and smell the coffee.
BTW, I though shelley's point about website's is right on and I do consider LM's website to be one of the better ones as far as gloss is concerned.
Many website's are not user friendly but I am no techy.
--------------------
Scott
Scott
You have hit the nail on the head, we are our own worst enemy, now I hope no one here gets offended my following comments are not directed at or meant to offend and they do not reflect the opinions of the company of management, wait I am the management.....
so there I covered it with a disclaimer, and this is my opinion only. Many bowlers over the years have become self proclaimed experts, have achieved the ability to actually see motions that only super human action heroes can see. These bowlers have taken the need for exotic drillings to the next level. Don't get me wrong this helps sell more balls. In reality the variations one will see from small tweaks is so minimal that bowlers want to believe they actually see it while many CATS studies prove they are not measurable and have little effect on performance. Nothing a better release won't cure. Many try to buy talent, hook in a box we call it. In the past we did seminars to instruct drillers how to make Performance adjustments to products that were not by todays standards performance balls. We drilled to get early roll, late roll, more flare or less flare. Since we the manufacturers have gotten smarter and some are smarter than others we began to build these characteristics into the product. If you need Length you can buy it. If you need roll buy it, flip arc skid snap its already built in. We tend to complicate it. Smart manufacturers build arsenals that cover all these or most of these needs.
Pro shops for the most part do not attend seminars unless they get a deal, we have made it easy on them to drill because what the customer wants is already in the ball. Now the complication comes from the customer. He wants ball "A" why because he did the research or saw some one with one and like the way it looked or maybe its his perception of what he needs. Now he goes to the shop to get this ball and proceeds to tell the shop guy how he wants it drilled. Basically in many cases what he is asking for is drilling a different performance into a ball other than what the ball was designed to do. It's easier for the shop guy to give him what he wants rather than try to convince him what he really needs. If your shop guy is not qualified than find a "new guy".
Rg's, diffs, mid diffs, geometry is all we need to know. Drilling for your rev rate, speed etc should come from the shop. Lets not keep trying to turn a Ferrari into a Taurus (not that there is anything wrong with a taurus)
Qualified companies tell you all the info you need, many make you sift through the hype to find it but its there. Find product that matches your need and use basic drillings. Everyone will be happier. Rant over....
Post by: revTrex on September 19, 2007, 01:06:03 PM
However, might I suggest an easy to use, "basic drilling sheet," with only "basic drillings," made available on the 900G website? Not that it is NEEDED, but it is WANTED (apparently for those who need pictures to complement the phrases "use standard asymmetrical drillings" or "use standard symmetrical drillings.") It wouldn't be incredibly time-consuming to put together -- all it would need is some simple pin-PAP distance info and three different MB placements -- and it could be a way through which the message of 900G and Phil concerning drillings/balls (in short, the pick the right ball and drill it simply gospel) could be voiced.
And in regards to the website...simple is better. I want clear links, some nice, bold graphics, and easily readable text. Nothing fancy is needed, no annoying flash graphics; just like I don't want to see Fred Borden speak about his balls, I don't want to watch Phil speak about his (sorry, newguy!). In fact, I don't want anybody talking about their balls to me. A slightly more polished version of the current website would be fine by me...make everything really mesh together, etc., and it will be fine.
A great paradox, a great, nigh tragic but recurring problem with humanity, is our unquenchable thirst for more information than we need, as we believe we need more. Just as ancient Grecian Oedipus would not stop in his search for identity, so does the "knowledgeable" (hint: sarcasm) bowler seek info on ball drillings, surfaces, etc. In the end, both characters may be worse off for knowing what they know.
Post by: newguy on September 19, 2007, 01:28:12 PM
Post by: thirtyclean on September 19, 2007, 03:13:57 PM
Creature. The ball is awesome. Have a Break that I have not drilled
yet but I am sure I wont be disappointed. Take your time and do the website
right. Thanks for the Creature Phil, Eric and gang. Satisfied Global900
customer.
Dan Karbowski
Chicago's Bowlers Shop
Niles Il - in Brunswick Zone Niles
Rich Blake - Owner
--------------------
Thirtyclean (Well maybe 29, or 28, most of
the times !)
Post by: Nicanor on September 19, 2007, 09:59:03 PM
So that was why I was looking for a more informative website. Now I might have to plug anmd re-drill the ball.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/20/2007 8:52 AM
Edited on 9/20/2007 9:30 AM
Post by: DON DRAPER on September 19, 2007, 10:21:36 PM
Post by: newguy on September 20, 2007, 08:58:52 AM
quote:
Sorry Newguy, but I got this ball used and had no drilling information. So I went to the website to try and find the drill sheet and no luck. I was a Lane 1 guy for years until the switch to Columbia and wanted to be fair to Lane 1 and try a 900 Gobal bowling ball. Jkiser01 offered me his Break pin one inch right of ring finger MB directly under the thumb and since I didn't have a drill sheet, I drilled right over his drill. My thumb and fingers are much thivker than JK's so I just drilled them out and put it my Vacu-Grips and Exacacator thumb slug and threw the ball. The ball seemed very arcy with this drilling, nice controlled rc but it didn't handle much oil and it wasn't as angular as the picture on the website seems to indicate. But it could be the drilling, the lane conditions, but it couldn't be my release
So that was why I was looking for a more informative website. Now I might have to plug anmd re-drill the ball.
Any sugestions would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
I've learned ove the years that suggesting drilling over the net can be a recipe for disaster. In the past when I did and the player in reality threw the ball nothing like they described, ball faiure was the drillers or suggestors fault.
1) Pin near finger (ring) small 900 near thumb (just under it) strong arc motion, great for going parellel to the boards on heavier oil
2) Pin near ring finger small 900 about 1 to 1.5 inch to the right of thumb harder reaction off the dry. Great for going away from the pocket on a shot where you have dry boards to your right.
Pro shop is the best place to decide where to put the pin, spinner , high track, medium track, etc. PAp distance and all need to be considered when laying out a ball. Slow speed higher top weight and more.
These are for right handed bowlers.
Post by: scotts33 on September 20, 2007, 09:15:15 AM
quote:
These are for right handed bowlers.
Remember guys Phil's a wrongsider.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: qstick777 on September 20, 2007, 09:28:34 AM
quote:quote:
These are for right handed bowlers.
Remember guys Phil's a wrongsider.
--------------------
Scott
GASP! I might have to return my Break......that asymmetric was designed by (and for) left-handers!
--------------------
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Post by: Nicanor on September 20, 2007, 09:28:43 AM
First, I think you put too much on pro shops and not enough to the bowler who has been around for a while and has taken the time to learn the sport and the bowling ball transition through the ye3ars. Did the pro shop operators corner the market on bowling and ball drilling knwoledge when the opened their doors and put the pr shop sign over the doors. Because I don't have a pro shop sign over my door, then I don't know how to drill bowling balls and the effects of different ball drillings. What college do pro shop operators go to to learn ball drillings. Seminars, experience through years? Thee are so many bowling balls coming out to quick, I can name a bowling ball I might be interested in and the Pro Shop operator has never heard of the ball let alone make a recommendation about the ball. whether it will fit my game if I purchase the ball and what layout might work if I buy the ball. So if you think that by asking us to go to the pro shop only for our information, will definately hurt sales long term unless there are a lot of bowlers throwing your ball in league shooting big numbers.
That is exactly the information I was looking for. I know that an individual's axis point makes a difference in drilling a ball and not seeing a person bowl makes it near impossible to make a recommendation on a ball drilling. But with some companies saying drilling the ball approx 1:30 is not a recommended drilling like the One and recently the Raid and then there's Hammer who recommends the pin at 1 and the HART in the ball track. So without a drill sheet for reference, its getting a little confusing out there.
As noted before, I got the ball used, so there was no implication I hope that a new ball was delivered without a drill sheet.
On MORICH's website, at least back when I threw MORICH, they had on their website the drill recoomedations for high trackers, medium trackers and low trackers. It was on the drill sheets as well. I know other companies has also started this, but it does help out bowler and the ball driller.
I appreciate Newguy reading the posts on Ballreviews and responding to our concerns. Its shows that he is interested in what we have to say and able to answer questions that we might have.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/20/2007 9:43 AM
Post by: newguy on September 20, 2007, 10:33:40 AM
In essence you are supporting what I have been saying, how so you may ask. Well simply put as a manufacturer I can not rely on the consumer to be as knowledgeable as a pro shop operator, secondly if the operator is not up to snuff on the product he should have less customers and eventually go away. They do have an orginazation IBPSIA were Pro hops are trained and educated. We communicate on a daily bases with shop operators and convey information to them, things we may have heard in the field as well as what our tests have shown. My safety valve is the shop operator, if the consumer wants control of the ball and drilling he can tell the shop that. We never want to be the reason the consumer went to the shop guy and told him he was wrong because that will be the quickest way for us to get booted out of his shop. A shop guy is the second set of eyes to help determine what the bowler actually needs. The info on the internet in many cases paints a rosy picture and the marketing hype gives a false since of security. I'd rather bowlers purchased less balls and got what they wanted and than built an arsenal based on a sound foundation than to keep taking shots in the dark hope to stumble on the right combination.
A quick story, a man sitting at his desk after doing yard work is on the internet feels pains in his chest he immediately logs on to web md, he types in what he feels are the symptoms, "pain in chest". Up pops several possibilities, one is muscle strain, he goes with that one since he had just done some work outside, than calls the doctor who tells him he ,may be having a heart attack get to the hospital. He is sure based on his Web information that it is a muscle strain, what does the doctor know!!! the web wouldn't lie. 2 hrs later he is pushing daisy. In a life threatening situation we listen for the most part to the experts but since the penalty of the next ball purchase isn't as severe we feel we know more than the shop guy. Bowlers should ask themselves how many years and dollars have they wasted in search of the perfect ball, drilling etc. Are they the ones creating this confusion by simply not listening to the experts.
Nicanor I am not directing this at you or any other individual, I do not know you nor do I have any idea how knowledgeable you are. I assume everyone is not the expert and always recommend them to see a local pro shop for help.
Post by: tekneek on September 20, 2007, 10:38:43 AM
--------------------
Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
512-755-2947
http://stores.ebay.com/Leading-Edge-Pro-Shop
Paypal address : tekneek@wildblue.net
Post by: qstick777 on September 20, 2007, 11:00:09 AM
quote:
Nicanor
In essence you are supporting what I have been saying, how so you may ask. Well simply put as a manufacturer I can not rely on the consumer to be as knowledgeable as a pro shop operator, secondly if the operator is not up to snuff on the product he should have less customers and eventually go away. They do have an orginazation IBPSIA were Pro hops are trained and educated. We communicate on a daily bases with shop operators and convey information to them, things we may have heard in the field as well as what our tests have shown. My safety valve is the shop operator, if the consumer wants control of the ball and drilling he can tell the shop that. We never want to be the reason the consumer went to the shop guy and told him he was wrong because that will be the quickest way for us to get booted out of his shop. A shop guy is the second set of eyes to help determine what the bowler actually needs. The info on the internet in many cases paints a rosy picture and the marketing hype gives a false since of security. I'd rather bowlers purchased less balls and got what they wanted and than built an arsenal based on a sound foundation than to keep taking shots in the dark hope to stumble on the right combination.
A quick story, a man sitting at his desk after doing yard work is on the internet feels pains in his chest he immediately logs on to web md, he types in what he feels are the symptoms, "pain in chest". Up pops several possibilities, one is muscle strain, he goes with that one since he had just done some work outside, than calls the doctor who tells him he ,may be having a heart attack get to the hospital. He is sure based on his Web information that it is a muscle strain, what does the doctor know!!! the web wouldn't lie. 2 hrs later he is pushing daisy. In a life threatening situation we listen for the most part to the experts but since the penalty of the next ball purchase isn't as severe we feel we know more than the shop guy. Bowlers should ask themselves how many years and dollars have they wasted in search of the perfect ball, drilling etc. Are they the ones creating this confusion by simply not listening to the experts.
Nicanor I am not directing this at you or any other individual, I do not know you nor do I have any idea how knowledgeable you are. I assume everyone is not the expert and always recommend them to see a local pro shop for help.
I won't disagree with what you are saying, for the most part.
However, there are plenty of pro shops that are far from "experts." We've all seen the stories about shops that ONLY have 2 or 3 drills - label, pin right of ring and CG stacked, and pin high/low, or some variation of those drills.
My local shop had never even heard of your company. I can only assume that he knows that Ebonite bought out Columbia/Track/DT.
Also, and I've mentioned this many times, there are very few shops in my area that are actually located in a center. Stand alone shops have a difficult time assessing my style and can only go by what I tell them, which you've pointed out can be far from how I actually throw the ball!
When a shop just assumes that everybody has a 5" PAP and drills everything label, there isn't a whole lot of options. I guess in that case it's a good thing that you guys are designing the reaction into the ball!
--------------------
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Post by: qstick777 on September 20, 2007, 11:01:34 AM
quote:
don't panic Matt, just turn the ball over, then it reverts to a rt handed core, lol
--------------------
Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
512-755-2947
http://stores.ebay.com/Leading-Edge-Pro-Shop
Paypal address : tekneek@wildblue.net
Thanks Steve!
I hadn't thought about that! Silly me, I was worried about static weights! I'm still stuck in the dark ages!
--------------------
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Post by: shelley on September 20, 2007, 11:03:35 AM
quote:
don't panic Matt, just turn the ball over, then it reverts to a rt handed core, lol
Only for a ball with a really long pin, though.
SH
Post by: scotts33 on September 20, 2007, 11:13:55 AM
quote:
When a shop just assumes that everybody has a 5" PAP and drills everything label, there isn't a whole lot of options.
Gawd...I'm sure happy I am 4 7/8" over and 0 then.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: Nicanor on September 20, 2007, 03:20:31 PM
But again I say you put too much faith into the pro shop[ operator. My ball driller is a 72 year old guy who says all bowling balls are the same. He didn't know that Ebonite bought Columbia and he didn't know about 900 Global. He drills most of his bowling balls 3 3/8 leveraged. Go in and ask him about a new ball on the market and he almost gets irrate. "With so many balls coming out so quickly, how am I suppose to keep up with them" or something to that effect.
So I understand that the novice wants hook in the box and wants it drilled to go long and hook hard, but there are way too many bowlers out there who are smart about bowling balls, probably more knowledgeable about the ball, not the drilling, then a lot of ball drillers.
And as for your sample, it sounds cute. We are comparing a doctor who probably has 10 years of college and internshiop to someone who cane learn to drill a ball without any education and a couple of ball seminars and you want those of us who have experience put our fath in the pro shop, because they are a pro shop. Maybe if they were in on or knowledgable about the R&D that went into the bowlng ball that they are getting ready to drill. But they aren't and don't care to be for the most part.
Go to a pro shop and ask them to drill a ball for you. Whats the first thing they will probably ask? Do you have a ball that you throw with you now? They ar going to lok at your track, measure you hand off the ball, look at the inserts to see what size they are and drill the ball. So where's the magic, the education, the feeling of security I'm getting from this person drilling my ball.
You can't compare a doctor to a ball driller. But nice try.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Dan Belcher on September 20, 2007, 03:22:42 PM
quote:I must say, I highly recommend finding a new ball driller...
But again I say you put too much faith into the pro shop[ operator. My ball driller is a 72 year old guy who says all bowling balls are the same. He didn't know that Ebonite bought Columbia and he didn't know about 900 Global. He drills most of his bowling balls 3 3/8 leveraged. Go in and ask him about a new ball on the market and he almost gets irrate. "With so many balls coming out so quickly, how am I suppose to keep up with them" or something to that effect.
Post by: shelley on September 20, 2007, 03:28:38 PM
quote:
"With so many balls coming out so quickly, how am I suppose to keep up with them"
Do it like the rest of the wannabes like me do it. Get online, check out reviews from experts, staffers. Talk to other drillers. Talk to ball designers; we actually, you know, have some on this site.
Would you go to a doctor who doesn't read medical journals? Who doesn't read literature from pharmaceutical companies on new drugs? A mechanic that never heard of electronic fuel injection? Do you take a car to mechanic that says "with all the cars coming out every year, how can I keep up with them all?"?
Too many pro shops are like that and there's no excuse. If you love the sport, if you love the job (which I hear is the only thing that can keep you in the business, because it's not for the money or chicks), keep up to date with it. "Ahh, they're all the same" might work for symmetric balls but definitely doesn't work for new strong asyms with spin times under 6s.
SH
Post by: strikezone_sanantonio on September 20, 2007, 04:12:33 PM
quote:
Thank you Newguy for a great response.
But again I say you put too much faith into the pro shop[ operator. My ball driller is a 72 year old guy who says all bowling balls are the same. He didn't know that Ebonite bought Columbia and he didn't know about 900 Global. He drills most of his bowling balls 3 3/8 leveraged. Go in and ask him about a new ball on the market and he almost gets irrate. "With so many balls coming out so quickly, how am I suppose to keep up with them" or something to that effect.
So I understand that the novice wants hook in the box and wants it drilled to go long and hook hard, but there are way too many bowlers out there who are smart about bowling balls, probably more knowledgeable about the ball, not the drilling, then a lot of ball drillers.
And as for your sample, it sounds cute. We are comparing a doctor who probably has 10 years of college and internshiop to someone who cane learn to drill a ball without any education and a couple of ball seminars and you want those of us who have experience put our fath in the pro shop, because they are a pro shop. Maybe if they were in on or knowledgable about the R&D that went into the bowlng ball that they are getting ready to drill. But they aren't and don't care to be for the most part.
Go to a pro shop and ask them to drill a ball for you. Whats the first thing they will probably ask? Do you have a ball that you throw with you now? They ar going to lok at your track, measure you hand off the ball, look at the inserts to see what size they are and drill the ball. So where's the magic, the education, the feeling of security I'm getting from this person drilling my ball.
You can't compare a doctor to a ball driller. But nice try.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
You're driller is a problem. Sounds like he treats his customers as a convenience rather than a priority. How do you expect the drill sheets or recommendations for ANY driller when they are not in "tune" with their own job. Any manufacturers can post drilling sheets on the net, but there is more than just that. I can see your approach, but your driller is just stonewalling you. If your driller cannot drill any assymmetrical ball, I would advise a second source. There are many "HOBBY" shops throughout the country and there are many "PRO" shops; you just happen to go one of those Hobby shops. If he is not interested in further education, then do not invest your money and time with him. There are many programs to further educate your driller and you should not "help" him do his job. That is what newguy was trying to say.
--------------------
Bo Littlefield
AMF300 and 900 Global Staff
The Strike Zone Pro Shop of San Antonio
-only pro shop in Texas with the largest selection and inventory
www.strikezone3884@sbcglobal.net
www.qualitybowlingproducts.com
Post by: Nicanor on September 20, 2007, 04:32:39 PM
Still it doesn't take away that there are many bowlers out there who have as much knowledge of bowling balls as the pro shop operator. We can do our own research and talk to professionals her on Ballreviews and at the manufactuers to get more info about bowling balls and ball potential.
Thanks for the feedback.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/20/2007 4:35 PM
Post by: williewc on September 20, 2007, 05:34:27 PM
and the guy who runs the shop at my main house is IBPSIA certified, and he knows quite a bit about drilling, but knows nothing about the newer balls, i go in talking to him all the time about new balls he gets in, and ill say what type of cover it is or what core is in it or the reaction shape of the ball and he will go look up in the book to make sure im right about it
just because someone runs a shop and is IBPSIA certified doesnt make them more knowledgeable than us bowlers
--------------------
Proud member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story
Post by: newguy on September 20, 2007, 05:41:33 PM
Post by: REVerse on September 20, 2007, 06:03:02 PM
quote:Phil- The majority of us want 900Global to succeed. I sure do. You are calling the shots here. So your marketing stradegy is different. So the website is dull. Fine. Just keep coming back and "philling us in" on the progress. I am looking forward to 9G on TV. (and in my bag)
If you read my disclaimer I said as a manufacturer we need to have a system we follow. I understand the intelligence level here on BR. It is quite diverse. Lets leave it at that. Thank God for the ignore user button. Knowledge used correctly is a beautiful thing used incorrectly can be a nightmare. We as manufacturers can not disseminate simply from post. There are tons of parrots out there. Rule of thumb, when in doubt refer them to the local pro shop. For the most part this work, that is all I'm saying.
--------------------
Ray
"SUPPORT PRO SHOPS"
Post by: Nicanor on September 20, 2007, 08:25:32 PM
I threw the Break again today and it is a you say (pin one inch right of ring finger MB under thumb)arcy. Thats not a bad thing, but if I have a choice of going parallel to the boards or swing the ball (not nessecarily coast to coast) but a nice swing pattern I will go with the swing or fade shot. So with that said I took your recommendation and plugged the ball and I am going to move the MB 1 1/2 inches right of the thumb. with regards to our discussion I know that this will but the MB in a stronger position and hopefully will give it a stronger reaction off the break point. I won't hold you to anything.
I just want the ball to work and as I have done with the G-Forces (solid) I will try different drillings and surface preps before I give up on the ball.So thanks for the advice and I'll see what the difference is shortly.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: newguy on September 21, 2007, 08:46:02 AM
Post by: Nicanor on September 21, 2007, 09:50:45 AM
But I think what I sen with the last drilling (arcy) and what you recommended with moving the MB righta 1 1/2, the ball will react a long stronger off the break point. The shot we have at one of your houses has taked away the oust side shot and its more os a swing shot and the Break struggled for me on this shot. I could see where the Break drilled like this would be a great down and in for most with this drilling, but there are those who could take a plastic ball and go cosat to coast, so I know thee are bowlers who could make this ball work with ease on this condition. My track is just a little too low.
Thanks again.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: jls on September 21, 2007, 10:27:36 AM
quote:
Newguy,
I threw the Break again today and it is a you say (pin one inch right of ring finger MB under thumb)arcy. Thats not a bad thing, but if I have a choice of going parallel to the boards or swing the ball (not nessecarily coast to coast) but a nice swing pattern I will go with the swing or fade shot. So with that said I took your recommendation and plugged the ball and I am going to move the MB 1 1/2 inches right of the thumb. with regards to our discussion I know that this will but the MB in a stronger position and hopefully will give it a stronger reaction off the break point. I won't hold you to anything.
So thanks for the advice and I'll see what the difference is shortly.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
don't mean to butt in, but while looking at the drill sheet, i noticed that it shows the mb in A as "more angular", and in B as smoooth or continuous>>arc.
i believe this to be a misprint.
and according to what is just posted above. B should be the more angular position, and A the smoother position.
thankyou
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf
Post by: Djarum on September 21, 2007, 10:38:20 AM
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: Djarum on September 21, 2007, 10:52:45 AM
quote:
Thank you Newguy for a great response.
But again I say you put too much faith into the pro shop[ operator. My ball driller is a 72 year old guy who says all bowling balls are the same. He didn't know that Ebonite bought Columbia and he didn't know about 900 Global. He drills most of his bowling balls 3 3/8 leveraged. Go in and ask him about a new ball on the market and he almost gets irrate. "With so many balls coming out so quickly, how am I suppose to keep up with them" or something to that effect.
So I understand that the novice wants hook in the box and wants it drilled to go long and hook hard, but there are way too many bowlers out there who are smart about bowling balls, probably more knowledgeable about the ball, not the drilling, then a lot of ball drillers.
And as for your sample, it sounds cute. We are comparing a doctor who probably has 10 years of college and internshiop to someone who cane learn to drill a ball without any education and a couple of ball seminars and you want those of us who have experience put our fath in the pro shop, because they are a pro shop. Maybe if they were in on or knowledgable about the R&D that went into the bowlng ball that they are getting ready to drill. But they aren't and don't care to be for the most part.
Go to a pro shop and ask them to drill a ball for you. Whats the first thing they will probably ask? Do you have a ball that you throw with you now? They ar going to lok at your track, measure you hand off the ball, look at the inserts to see what size they are and drill the ball. So where's the magic, the education, the feeling of security I'm getting from this person drilling my ball.
You can't compare a doctor to a ball driller. But nice try.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Then go to a different driller. It is your responsibility as the consumer to make this decision. I agree with Phil here. He can only rely on the shops to deliver the product to the customer and customize the product. It would be a crap shoot to assume that all bowlers had some experience with drilling or layouts. If you, as the consumer, go to a driller and doesn't meet your needs or expectations, go somewhere else. One of the biggest problems ball companies and drillers have is giving the customer what is perceived as what they want but at the same time giving them what they need. I see it all the time. Someone wants a ball to go 50 feet and turn left for awesome hook. Shop guy gives him that, and the customer's average plummets. The customer blames the shop, when they were just giving the customer what they asked.
From a marketing and support standpoint, it would be silly to have anything other than basic drill instructions. There are infinite number of ways to drill a ball legally. For those who want something exotic, then experiment and document what works for you and what doesn't. There is no way for manufactures to know this. Nor is it their responsibility. It is their responsibility to deliver a quality product to 90 percent of the people throwing it.
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: newguy on September 21, 2007, 01:04:01 PM
Post by: scotts33 on September 21, 2007, 01:18:05 PM
--------------------
Scott
Post by: Djarum on September 21, 2007, 01:55:45 PM
quote:
Can I get an AMEN!!!!!
Whoever said being in sales or marketing is easy should be shot.
Then again, I'm an engineer
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: qstick777 on September 21, 2007, 02:19:35 PM
quote:
Can I get an AMEN!!!!!
Careful newguy, all religion topics should be in the "Miscellaneous - NON Bowling Related" forum. You are dangerously close to getting this thread locked!
quote:
I'm locking this thread because it has gotten off-topic. If you'd like to continue this discussion, please create a new topic.
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Post by: qstick777 on September 21, 2007, 03:11:25 PM
quote:
I started to read this thread and realized that complaining about how a website looks is silly. Just thought I'd share.
--------------------
The Elitest: "The other monkey sister is still in." Isn't racism funny?
Chad, may I call you Chad?
I started to read your response, then just realized how silly it was. I've notified the MOD that your response is off-topic and adds nothing to the discussion.
I then began to wonder what brought you to this thread, but realized it was because you are stalking jls31316.
>>>>> I believe he's busy watching Women's golf on the Golf channel.
>>>>> Or, he's busy with his pretend customers, in his pretend pro shop!
>>>>>> Heck of a year Tiger had!
>>>>> The police station was only 4 blocks away!
>>>> Driller to the stars? Cowboy boots with cow poo!
>>>> Good day to you, sir! Notice I said sir!
Back on topic: I like the website. It's simple and to the point. I can find what I need and don't have to sort through a bunch of fluff!
--------------------
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Post by: Nicanor on September 21, 2007, 03:27:54 PM
The thread was about a terrible website. Now there is discussion that iy could be the browser that is causing the write over and others acn read the literature without problem.
I still go back to saying the website is not informative and there are ways to make the website user friendly and also have more information that is useful to all of us, bowlers and pro shops alike.
Its a terrible website that is in need of update. There is nothing there. Stop defendin a company that probably has great equipment but has a terrible website. Its an easy fix.
And I still say that selling to pro shops only is the the option of the company. But I do think sales will suffer in todays comuter eviornment.
Unless 900Global is hands down better then another company, I'm noty going to pay pro shop prices for a ball that has another product that is as good or better then the product that I am being forced to buy from a pro shop. I will probably might off my nose to spite ny face first.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/21/2007 3:32 PM
Edited on 9/21/2007 3:35 PM
Post by: qstick777 on September 21, 2007, 04:07:31 PM
quote:
The thread wsa about a terrible website. Now there is discussion that iy could be the browser that is causing the write over and others acn read the literature without problem.
I still go back to saying the website is not informative and there are ways to make the website user friendly and also have more information that is useful to all of us, bowlers and pro shops alike.
Its a terrible website that is in need of update. There is nothing there. Stop defendin a company that probably has great equipment but has a terrible website. Its an easy fix.
And I still say that selling to pro shops only is the the option of the company. But I do think sales will suffer in todays comuter eviornment.
Unless 900Global is hands down better then another company, I'm noty going to pay pro shop prices for a ball that has another product that is as good or better then the product that I am being forced to buy from a pro shop. I will probably might off my nose to spite ny face first.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/21/2007 3:32 PM
Again, we hear the complaints, but see no suggestions as to how to make it better.
How do you expect them to try to give you want you want unless you tell them what you want?
Do you walk into a restaurant, sit down and then complain that they didn't bring you any food. Come on, place your order!
Do you want a bunch of fluff like Ebonite's site? How about some videos with TJ and Jason cracking jokes with each other? Would that make it better for you?
How about a cool moving flash screen, so when you move over the ball you can see the core? Wouldn't that be splendid!
It's a bowling ball! They have picture of the ball. They have a picture of the core. They have a diagram showing the intended path of the ball. They have coverstock, finish, reaction shape, lane condition, and flare potential listed. They even give you the R.G., Diff, and Mid diff numbers for the different ball weights.
What more do you NEED? What do you WANT?
More user friendly? How so? It opens to a page with clearly defined links to "Balls", "Shoes", and "Contact." Surprise! You click on "Balls" and it takes you to a page that has the balls listed! And, get this.....you click on the ball and it takes you to a page with the information for the ball!
Okay, we get it. You want a drill sheet. Phil already addressed that issue. It's on the way.
Why don't you give some examples of what you consider a "good" website?
Personally, I don't like Brunswick's site, Ebonite's site, or the new Track site. Why?
Brunswick is too many clicks to find the balls. The formatting isn't the greastest. Every ball has the same reaction shape. Just because you move it 1 board and change the color doesn't make me want to run out and buy the ball.
Ebonite is trying to do too much. Personally I hate flash menus. I hate it when I move the mouse a little too much and the menu disappears (when trying to get to the "antique ball" section). Check out the drillling instructions. If you are going to create instructions for each individual ball, then I expect the latest balls to have instructions available. At least move the antique drilling instructions under the antique balls sections. The videos are a nice touch, but why not give me the option to turn them on and off? Why not give me the option of pausing, rewinding, fast forwarding? How about cleaning up the Demo Days? I don't really need to know that somebody had a demo day 3 weeks ago.....it's over!
Track: Site is actually pretty clean, but get this. I clicked on the Temper and Kinetic and guess what? I can't find a drill sheet for these balls! OMG! The site is terrible! They aren't giving me any information about the balls! Oh, and how about keeping it up to date? Under the Rising it still says "Because of the proprietary nature of this core technology we have decided to keep its shape a secret for now." Well, if it's such a big secret, why do they provide a link to the core? It's a website. It's HTML. It's easy to edit and keep up to date! Like you said, "It's an easy fix!"
--------------------
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Edited on 9/21/2007 4:17 PM
Post by: Nicanor on September 21, 2007, 04:34:43 PM
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: qstick777 on September 21, 2007, 04:53:13 PM
quote:
Personally when I threw Lane 1 eqquipment, I liked their website. I'm not say ing I don't like it know, but I haven't been on it lately. They have drill sheets, discontinued balls (I know 900 Global doesn't have any discontinued balls) new balls expected and interactive forum. I know 900 Global is new, I'm just sayng that they could have had a website that was user friendly with information about their current balls, future balls, drill sheets, surface preps (something Lane 1 doesn't do). Maybe their mision statement.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
I don't know. I don't think manufacturers need to provide a forum. There are plenty of bowling forums available and I don't think it is the responsibility of a ball company to have to provide and moderate a forum.
900G has their initial press release on the front page. I don't if you really need a mission statement. I've yet to see another ball company provide a mission statement.
900G has 2 balls. The site has information about both balls and it is easy to find. "User friendly" is a subjective term. I find the site very user friendly. First lesson in web design is that simple is often better. If you happen to not like the layout, graphics, organization, or some other aspect of the site, that really is subjective.
Given the cut throat nature of the business, I don't think you will see many companies showing their "coming soon" products - at least not until they have already patented, trademarked, copyright, and whatever else they need to do before they release it. Remember that the original name was already taken by another company (probably because they knew Phil wanted to use it). Besides that, they just got their first 2 balls released (August). Phil has already said that they will release balls that are filling a need. More will follow, just give them some time.
I imagine if you asked 10 people to go to the site and find the list of current balls and information on the balls (say R.G.), I'd guess that all 10 could easily find the info.
--------------------
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Post by: Nicanor on September 21, 2007, 05:09:38 PM
I agree a forum isn't necessary and a mission statement wouold be nice. More and more companies and military have or are developing mission statements.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: RealBowler on September 21, 2007, 09:56:13 PM
quote:
But with the browser I use the RGs Diffs etc are un together and the literature of the bowling balls are wrote over so you can't read the information.
I agree a forum isn't necessary and a mission statement wouold be nice. More and more companies and military have or are developing mission statements.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Bah!
Here is the info for the break:
Dynamic Properties:
------RG -----Diff------Mid Diff
16# 2.484-----0.055------0.023
15# 2.489-----0.058------0.024
14# 2.539-----0.049------0.020
--------------------
Haywood
**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************
Post by: revTrex on September 21, 2007, 10:03:11 PM
You want a mission statement, check out www.azobowling.comhttp://. There is a perfect example why ball companies' SHOULD NOT HAVE MISSION STATEMENTS. AZO says they are using the "Cartesian Coordinate System." Wow, just wow. They use an x-y-z plane to design balls. Wow. They use math. Wow. "Combines algebra and geometry." Wow. I'm so impressed...
Post by: Djarum on September 22, 2007, 08:55:01 AM
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: newguy on September 22, 2007, 11:27:07 AM
Post by: Djarum on September 22, 2007, 02:27:12 PM
quote:
I've noticed several comments about not selling on the net. Is this about the web site or us not selling on the net....Forcing sales through pro shop. It's a business decision based on history. Not a topic I feel compelled to discuss, although you can discuss this amoung yourselves.....
I think the topic is about how 900global website is not as fancy as others.
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: Nicanor on September 22, 2007, 03:28:05 PM
IMHO.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Nicanor on September 22, 2007, 07:05:56 PM
I'm sorry but I didn't bash a company. They currently only have two bowling balls released and I throw one of them. I just said their website was terrible.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/22/2007 7:58 PM
Post by: revTrex on September 22, 2007, 07:33:06 PM
That being said, I don't think 900G's site is that far off from being one of the best, even as it is now. Click on a ball, you have info. Click on shoes, you have info. And I have never had a problem with reading any of the info, or the layout being messed up with my browser (Firefox on Mac OS X 10.4.10)...
Post by: Nicanor on September 22, 2007, 07:57:31 PM
Near one of the best? Try Lane1bowling.com Lanemasters.com and some of the other ball manufacturing balls comapnies (I didn't like Storm's website either) and then tell me 900 Globals website is one of the best.
Responses that would claim 900 Global's website asbeing one of the best is the reason why readers can't faith in what you write.
Does it have promise, yes. Is there information on the website, yes. Is that all that some readers need or want, yes. But these are the readers that ony read the morning sport page and the comics.
Is it a good website now. NO
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: revTrex on September 22, 2007, 09:00:03 PM
I'm sorry, but the flash animation found on other websites is annoying, at best. Legends' and Lane 1's are terrible. Legends' has WAY too much animation, and I have never, ever found myself WANTING to hear Fred Borden or his minions speak about their balls. Lane 1's has ZERO sense of "look" -- quite honestly, it looks dated, like a poor first attempt at using flash animation.
Furthermore, read exactly what I said. "I don't think 900G's site is that far off from being one of the best." As in, with additions, the site could be among a number of sites currently considered good.
I've seen other bowling sites, thank you, which is exactly why I said what I did. The only site that stands out in my mind as being "good" is Roto's. There new site is superb; their old site was just as good too. None of the other companies -- Ebonite, Columbia, Track, Storm, MoRich, Lane 1, Legends, Visionary -- compare well.
Additionally, you comment about how 900G's site would appeal to readers of Sports and Comics is completely wrong. 900G's site, with its bare-bones information delivery, would better serve readers of News, Business, etc. For those who want "fluff" -- Sports, Comics, Entertainment -- the other sites mentioned by you will certainly do.
On a final note, and for the last time, the 900G site is temporary. That being said, and with your desire to criticize the current version, why don't you list out what you think a good website has, and provide linked examples, so that we can all see your stance toward the matter. You pass judgment, but fail to do so in a helpful or beneficial manner. Tell us, then, oh Nicanor -- what is a good website (give an example too!) and WHY.
Post by: Nicanor on September 22, 2007, 10:54:18 PM
I think a couple of posts up I wrote my recommendations.
I agree the flash is a lot on some of the websites, but other then that, Lane 1 is an outstanding website with forums of whats next, honor scores, what would you like to see, drill patterns, future and other associatd forums.
900 Globals webiste was just an attempt to put something on the internet fast and cheap. Does the comapny have potential, without question. Does their website ned work: you alreaday have that answer.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: justdale on September 22, 2007, 11:08:43 PM
If any of the people on this site think they can do a better job, submit a web design and see if the compnay will hire you for there web design.
This is just my oppinion, and if you feel like you need to jump on my back and argue, knock yourself out. I will not respond.
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Post by: Nicanor on September 23, 2007, 09:13:51 AM
I respect your opinion.
Just like I think others should respect mine. I am looking for more information on a website and you're right, it doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles. Someone asked me what I'd like to see, not what I thought the minimum should be.
I personaaly like websites similar to Lane 1 without all the Flash start up. But I don't thinks ts mandatory to have a good and informative website.
This is the day where so many are in "The Ball of the Month Club" and we can get and sell used bowling balls at a good price in great shape. So having the drill sheets available to us on line is good for us and the pro shops we bring our bowling balls to be plugged and drilled.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: TheDude on September 26, 2007, 09:19:26 AM
The AMF site is horrible, it's not updated often enough.
The 900Global site is not much better.
last year in the 2006 trade show run phil said that mid difs over 0.010 didn't affect or improve ball characteristics. his new break now has mid diff at 0.024(at 15lbs)
facts change and so has the story.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: EricThomas on September 26, 2007, 09:23:59 AM
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900 Global/AMF Sales Manager
Post by: Dynoboy on September 26, 2007, 09:35:22 AM
If it looks horrible or bad or what ever, don't look at it. Buy from another company with a beatiful web site and improve your game!!! What an issue, wow!!
Post by: newguy on September 26, 2007, 09:44:01 AM
Post by: Nicanor on September 26, 2007, 04:51:24 PM
I'm so confused.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: revTrex on September 27, 2007, 11:08:35 AM
A is the strongest position. B reads the dry, and is more angular. Strong is not = to angular.
First consider pin position. 1 rolls earliest, 2 a little less early, and 3 gives you the most length (and thus the most angle). Therefore, if your sole goal is "long and strong," use 3B. If you want an earlier roll, for heavier/longer volumes of oil, use 1A or 2A.
Per Phil's other post:
"The longer the oil patter the closer to 1A you need to be the shorter the closer to 3b you need to be. It also pertains to volume and lateral dry boards."
Phil then suggested that if you are using a 1A-drilled Break, and it rolls out, there is not enough oil, or there is too much ball surface. If a 2/3B-drilled Break doesn't "really move," there are one of two problems -- there is too much oil (use a stronger drilling, more surface, etc.) or there is not enough oil (the pattern is too short, causing the strong ball to quit...use a weaker ball, like a pearl, which will actually give you more VISIBLE hook).
newguy has answered your question, but it just seems that you don't want to acknowledge this fact. One needs to understand that more hook (stronger) does not always equal more length with angle, or so called visible hook. On the right condition, a weak pearl can visibly hook WAY more than a heavy oil ball, and recover more on the backend. However, this does not mean that the pearl ACTUALLY hooked more -- the heavy oil ball just rolled out, there wasn't enough oil, etc.
Hope this helps.
Post by: jls on September 27, 2007, 12:19:03 PM
quote:
For the last time: QUOTE FROM REVTREX
A is the strongest position. B reads the dry, and is more angular. Strong is not = to angular.
First consider pin position. 1 rolls earliest, 2 a little less early, and 3 gives you the most length (and thus the most angle). Therefore, if your sole goal is "long and strong," use 3B. If you want an earlier roll, for heavier/longer volumes of oil, use 1A or 2A.
Per Phil's other post:
"The longer the oil patter the closer to 1A you need to be the shorter the closer to 3b you need to be. It also pertains to volume and lateral dry boards."
Phil then suggested that if you are using a 1A-drilled Break, and it rolls out, there is not enough oil, or there is too much ball surface. If a 2/3B-drilled Break doesn't "really move," there are one of two problems -- there is too much oil (use a stronger drilling, more surface, etc.) or there is not enough oil (the pattern is too short, causing the strong ball to quit...use a weaker ball, like a pearl, which will actually give you more VISIBLE hook).
newguy has answered your question, but it just seems that you don't want to acknowledge this fact. One needs to understand that more hook (stronger) does not always equal more length with angle, or so called visible hook. On the right condition, a weak pearl can visibly hook WAY more than a heavy oil ball, and recover more on the backend. However, this does not mean that the pearl ACTUALLY hooked more -- the heavy oil ball just rolled out, there wasn't enough oil, etc.
Hope this helps.
REVTREX
sir, exactly, all i ever ask was what was the more angular, never ever asked about stronger, asked what was more angular.
now you just posted pos. B as more angular. correct?
now, the drill sheet says pos. A is more angular.
may i read from the scriptures>>>
pos. A will cause the ball to have a more angular backend, while pos. B will have a smoother, continous backend reaction. DOES NOT MENTION STRONGER!!
NOW STEP 2. CLEARLY SHOWS that pos. A is on or under the thumb hole, and pos. B is right of the thumb hole.
thus, someone with an once of brains will conclude that according to the drill sheet, pos. A is more angular. hello anyone home here.
but you sir, just posted that pos. B is more angular!!!!! and it is!!!!!
BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THE PINK DRILL SHEETS STATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so i "foolio" ask a simple question to mr newguy, is this a misprint.
and all he keeps saying is he answered and something about stronger.
NEVER ASKED ABOUT STRONGER, THAT IS SPELLED S T R O N G E R.
ASKED ABOUT ANGULAR, SPELLED A N G U L A R.
and then the babboon squad comes on and says drama king and attn crap.
phil, is the drill sheet a mis print or not.
THIS PERSON POSTING CLEARLY POST THAT B. IS ANGULAR!!!!!
YOU PINK DRILL SHEET STATES A IS ANGULAR.
NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION, AND STOP TRYING TO INSULT ME.
YOUR DRILL SHEET IS EITHER CORRECT, which would mean that the person i am quoting is WRONG.
OR YOUR DRILL SHEET IS WRONG, and the person i am quoting is right.
WHICH MAKES ME "FOOLIO: CORRECT.
NOT TALKING ABOUT STRONGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANGULAR VS. SMOOTHER.
WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE FROM TEXAS???????????????????
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf
Edited on 9/27/2007 12:21 PM
Edited on 9/27/2007 12:38 PM
Post by: splendorlex on September 27, 2007, 12:45:48 PM
As far as other company's sites, Legends site is terrible. All flash? Ugh! Sure it looks fancy, but fancy don't mean good in web design! Lane 1's site, though good on the content, looks exceedingly dated, like it was designed in 1999. Web 2.0? Hell, they're on web 0.25!! As far as other sites? Storm and Roto have pretty good ones, clean look and plenty of info. The Ebonite family of sites is ok, they're a little "graphic design" heavy for my tastes, and they color schemes they use can make it difficult to read, but overall they're alright. I do like the new Track site, however. The Brunswick site is kind of blah overall. I can't stand the Banger site, mostly due to the scantily clad women, so I don't like to open it at work.
The Morich site is another fine example of 1999 design, meaning it's bad. The Visionary site is one of the worst, due to compatibility issues. They tried to get too fancy, and it just plain doesn't work well.So overall, I would put the Storm and Ebonite families of sites at the top, and everything else below.
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Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...
Post by: qstick777 on September 28, 2007, 09:40:43 AM
They have a link for the drill sheet under the Break - not there yet, but I'm sure it will be there in time.
Check it out and see if it looks any better.
--------------------
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Post by: EricThomas on September 28, 2007, 09:56:23 AM
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900 Global/AMF Sales Manager
Post by: Nicanor on September 28, 2007, 10:03:00 AM
I think it was great of Newguy and company to make a quick transition. Do I think there is any more information on the modified website, not realy, but I am able to read whats on the website and again, the website has great potential.
And I mean all of things as good things. This is not intended as a slam or a slight. I think its a great start.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: qstick777 on September 28, 2007, 10:32:06 AM
quote:
Funny thing is its up in certain regions. Some will see it, some will not. I didnt know the internet had a traffic control system when you make something go live....
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900 Global/AMF Sales Manager
Is it hosted on the same server? If it's a new server, it might have something to do with DNS servers. If not, might be cached info on some proxy servers.
--------------------
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Post by: EricThomas on September 28, 2007, 10:34:48 AM
--------------------
900 Global/AMF Sales Manager
Post by: 1MechEng on September 28, 2007, 11:03:20 AM
Phil suggested that complex technical information should be left to the drillers and pro/shops. I understand his logic on this, but I offer this alternative viewpoint: as a consumer who wants technical information (in todays instant gratification society), will I probably choose a ball where I can easily find this information when I want it rather than buy a ball where I can only get info. when the pro/shop is open.
Also, keep this in mind: The better bowlers stereotypically know more about the game and the technology than the avg. recreational "glow bowler". These good bowlers are the people with considerable interest in the technical details because small incremental scoring increases require much more effort when you're performing at a high level. Those recreational bowlers who want to get better usually look to the good bowlers around them, and try to emulate them. This includes buying similar balls, trying similar styles, and learning all they can.
By corollary, if you offer the technical information as requested/required by the better bowler in order to get their business, then you will also likely get the interest (and sales) of the improving rec. bowler.
In this sense, it's just good business to provide the technical information. Your competition is doing it. The bowlers want it. 'Nuff said.
Thanks for reading.
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======================
Dan
======================
Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.
Post by: qstick777 on September 28, 2007, 11:15:10 AM
quote:
I would like to make a brief comment about what should/should not be on the website, and the reasons for doing so.
Phil suggested that complex technical information should be left to the drillers and pro/shops. I understand his logic on this, but I offer this alternative viewpoint: as a consumer who wants technical information (in todays instant gratification society), will I probably choose a ball where I can easily find this information when I want it rather than buy a ball where I can only get info. when the pro/shop is open.
Also, keep this in mind: The better bowlers stereotypically know more about the game and the technology than the avg. recreational "glow bowler". These good bowlers are the people with considerable interest in the technical details because small incremental scoring increases require much more effort when you're performing at a high level. Those recreational bowlers who want to get better usually look to the good bowlers around them, and try to emulate them. This includes buying similar balls, trying similar styles, and learning all they can.
By corollary, if you offer the technical information as requested/required by the better bowler in order to get their business, then you will also likely get the interest (and sales) of the improving rec. bowler.
In this sense, it's just good business to provide the technical information. Your competition is doing it. The bowlers want it. 'Nuff said.
Thanks for reading.
--------------------
======================
Dan
======================
Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.
I understand both sides of the argument. Before I started drilling my own stuff, I would read stuff here and think I knew everything. I'd take the ball to my pro shop and tell him how I wanted it drilled (or how I thought I wanted it drilled).
Usually he'd look at it, ask me some questions and they tell me how he thought I should have it drilled. It usually ended with "I'll drill it like that, but you won't be happy with it."
So, yes, sometimes too much information is a bad thing. And, sometimes we need to be able to recognize that sometimes other people know more than we do and to take their advice.
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