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Author Topic: Motiv in BTM  (Read 3054 times)

Jay

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Motiv in BTM
« on: August 27, 2009, 09:49:07 AM »
To those that read BTM or have the ball review spreadsheet, how accurate would you say the numbers are?  Particularly the hook rating.  They seem pretty accurate to me just based on what I've read about the balls.  The one that kind of has me off guard is the rating for the TR2 which is 52.  This is supposed to be a heavy oil ball, but I have a Rival which is also rated 52 and while it is a strong ball I wouldn't consider it something I could use in true heavy oil.  I'm just wondering if it's possible something is not right here or maybe it's not fair to compare the hook ratings of balls from different companies.

Any opinions would be appreciated.
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charlest

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 06:44:57 PM »
AS with most TRUE heavy oil balls, it's not how much the ball hooks but how well it handles oil and volumes of oil. Actually, for true hevay oil balls, I would expect the overall hook number to be lower than for many medium-heavy oil balls (more than a few of which have finer finishes than true heavy oil balls) and many of which have 2000 - 4000 grit Abralon finishes, rather than lower grit finishes like 600 grit US or 1000 grit Abralon usually needed to handle true heavy oil.

That said, I am not sure exactly how heavy an oil the TR2 would handle compared to acknowledged heavy oil balls such as the Mega Friction, BOunty Hunter, Ogre Particle, Warp ZOne, Awesome Hook, Dynamic Power, etc. Most of those are not big hooking balls, but early hooking ones which handle oil.

The earlier a ball hooks, the less it will hook overall. Unless you have a lot of hand, most true oilers do not have a lot of backend.

I'd worry less about the actual numbers in a review than the text about that ball and how the review is done and how the oil patterns used to test that ball are laid out and what type of bowler is testing the ball. The words, more often than not, mean much more than the numbers.


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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 06:47:35 PM »
For me, the review that threw me for a loop was the SX-1 review. Mine acts NOTHING like what they described. Mine has a very strong backend on medium oil, actually too much to control. I had to redrill it way milder and remove some of the shine. Now it is my benchmark ball. I even used on the Shark Pattern this summer in a PBA-X league.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

scotts33

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 06:50:57 PM »
I'd agree with Jeff.  Numbers just put you in range of balls and are not exact.  I'd like the written reviews BTM and BJI to put out more info. about the conditions they test them on but I have not seen anything.  I have made this suggestion a couple of times.

That said some review is better than nothing.  Gives me an idea going in.

Look at the torque and backend ratings, etc.  

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Scott

Scott

scotts33

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 06:52:23 PM »
BTW....I am exactly opposite Jeff's opinion about the SX-1 so there you go two different users with completely opposite opinions.  Shows you what we know.  
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Scott

Scott

Jay

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2009, 02:12:04 AM »
I do not get BTM so I'm not able to read the actual reviews, but I would have to agree that the things people have to say about a ball are usually worth more than the numbers.

Angela Wilt says this ball hooks about as much as anything else, but being a staffer we don't really know if some of that is just talking the ball up unless we throw it.  Charlest, you also have a point about true heavy oil balls don't always hook a bunch but they do create the friction necessary in that oil.  

That's something to consider, but I guess it's better to look at the whole picture.  What I mean is to look at all the numbers and not just the hook rating, like scotts33 implied.  The TR2 does get all 9s for oil in BTM, and it also has a low length rating of 10 along with 6 and 15 ratings for torque and backend respectively.  Those last two numbers aren't exactly very far off the highest of all the reviewed balls so far.  With the help of you guys, I think I'm answering my own question and I'm going to say that the TR2 is a true oil ball.

If you guys get BTM, would you guys mind(and if it's not breaking some sort of rule/code) sharing the kind of things BTM has to say about this and the other Motiv balls?
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Justin

charlest

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2009, 08:32:38 AM »
Strike Domination,

You've also got to realize something else about BTM, a publication I really, really like. They put a lot of effort and thought into what they do and how they do it. But you also have to "see" that the "heavy" oil and the "dry" oil patterns are not as heavy as they could be nor as dry as they could be. So the balls that DO handle the extremes of oil and dry do not stand out In the review and in the numbers as much you might like them to stand out.

As an example, a ball that easily handles extreme hevay oil, such as the Mega Friction is not rated as highly as a ball that handles heavy oil but not the extreme heavy oil. So the Mega Friction might actually not be conserving as much energy as it could on their heavy oil pattern as it would on the extreme heavy oil for which it was designed. So the MF might get a 9 for heavy oil while a lesser heavy oil ball might get a 9.5, BUT the MF might still handle heavier oil.

The same Might or MIGHT not be true of the TR2. I don't know.

Both BTM and BJI say a lot more in words than their numbers imply. I am certain of a ball's place int he reaction hierarchy when both BTM and BJI agree on a ball (and I don't mean in the numbers!!!). When they disagree, like in the AMF COde and the Lanemaster Terminator Rebellion, then I have to add in local opinion and reviews by online people I trust.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Rockbowler

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2009, 02:28:31 PM »
This is a first-hand experience with TR2. I bowl in a house where the shot is on the heavy side of medium. I usually use an NTense Lev RG and a Resurgence. When I tried the TR2, I did a 3 and 2 adjustment and almost hit the nose (left the 4-7 pins). The TR2 is a true heavy oil ball. I can't wait to bowl the shark-like condition that I bowl in a tournament.

scotts33

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2009, 02:34:16 PM »
My take.  One can not compare lane conditions nor bowler stats. to yours if they are not given.  Just taking another players word for it you may have a completely different ball reaction.  

Crap in = crap out in my experience.
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Scott

Scott

Rockbowler

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2009, 02:37:10 PM »
Wow, that was pretty strong. I am just trying to share my experience with the ball. How could that be crap? Maybe you should buy the ball and see for yourself and then let us know how you feel when people say that your feedback is crap.

quote:
My take.  One can not compare lane conditions nor bowler stats. to yours if they are not given.  Just taking another players word for it you may have a completely different ball reaction.  

Crap in = crap out in my experience.
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Scott



Rockbowler

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 02:44:30 PM »
Also, for true heavy oil balls, you can tell right away. The only true heavy oil ball in my experience is the Visionary AMD Particle. I have read that some bowlers here said that the first time they threw the ball in their THS, they hit the seven pin. That was exactly my experience. Is the TR2 like that? No, it is a couple of notches lower.


quote:
Wow, that was pretty strong. I am just trying to share my experience with the ball. How could that be crap? Maybe you should buy the ball and see for yourself and then let us know how you feel when people say that your feedback is crap.

quote:
My take.  One can not compare lane conditions nor bowler stats. to yours if they are not given.  Just taking another players word for it you may have a completely different ball reaction.  

Crap in = crap out in my experience.
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Scott





Edited on 8/28/2009 2:44 PM

scotts33

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 02:45:44 PM »
Rockbowler,

I wasn't responding to your specific post but if you take it that way....why not fill us in on your specs so I can compare your to mine.  Mine are in my profile.  What lane surface are you bowling on....how old? RH or LH?  

I am looking at a possible TR2 purchase in the future.  I was one of the first on BR.com to try Motiv and have both the SX1 and TX1.
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Scott

Scott

Jay

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 05:50:40 PM »
Rockbowler, I also am interested in your specs.  How you throw the ball, speed, etc.  I've heard the Resurgence was strong and the Ntense LevRG even stronger, so I imagine being able to use those on heavy mediums either means you're covering quite a few boards or you have a lot of speed and/or are a stroker.  Just trying to get more of a feel for how your experience might compare to mine as well.
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Justin

Aloarjr810

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Re: Motiv in BTM
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 06:37:03 PM »
Over things to take into account are that the Rival had a OOB of 4000 Abralon and the TR2 had a 800 wet sand. Also theres a 2 year age difference between them. Plus They were tested on different patterns.
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