Author Topic: 42 time pba champion (Read 6858 times)

DON DRAPER · « **on:** September 25, 2006, 04:00:04 PM »

not much was really made about walter ray williams, jr., passing earl anthony's record of 41 pba titles with his win in the 2006 dydo japan cup. so i guess it's up to me. we will be seeing the greatest bowler of all time from now on every time he makes a telecast. i think it's a shame that the non-bowling media haven't grabbed hold of this news item and run with it---after all the old record lasted 23 years. this is big news.

Edited on 9/26/2006 9:51 AM

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #16 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:03:59 AM »

ragnar, we would all be interested in your opinion on who is the greatest. let's pull out some worthy names to compare:

walter ray williams, jr. 42 titles
earl anthony 41
mark roth 34
pete weber 32
parker bohn III 30

these are the top 5 titleists of all-time----let the discussion begin !

shelley · « **Reply #17 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:04:22 AM »

quote:
WRW the greatest bowler of all time? Mr. Hoppe, you need therapy. Seriously.

For sure. I mean, Earl was soooo much better. He never talked about his mark being the 5-board or the 6-board. Earl's mark was the dark spot of wood grain 1/3 of the way from the left edge of the 5-board. He divided up the lane into tenths of a board and chose the tenth-of-a-board that would give him the best chance of striking. And he had no fewer than 745 completely different releases, just by adjusting his hand position and loft. And he knew without a shadow of a doubt which one was best at any given time. He didn't make those kinds of mistakes, choosing the wrong tenth-of-a-board or the wrong wrist position. Once he actually started to use the wrong wrist position, but he adjusted at the foul line with the angle of his head and the position of his eyelids to alter the local curvature of space-time so that in actuality, it was the correct wrist position.

At night, instead of sleeping, he would stay up thinking about bowling, playing game after game in his head like Grand Masters in chess. He could recall at a moment's notice any and every game he ever bowled. Not only could he tell you which release and tenth-of-a-board he hit for each of his strike balls, but he could also tell you how his opponent messed up. He once threw 3000 for ten games, but it's not a PBA record because he did it over three rounds.

And he was the only lefty in most tournaments. When other PBA-quality left handers were shooting 80s and 90s for eight-game blocks, Earl was shooting 2000-plus for the same eight games. The laneman actually followed him into the parking lot and threatened his family once, on orders from the PBA to bring down the giant, but Earl just looked at him cross-eyed and the man fell over dead. He taught Chuck Norris that trick.

SH

Edited on 9/26/2006 10:00 AM

SKIDSNAP · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:04:29 AM »

YOU ARE RIGHT SHELLY!!!!! The law does apply...

sooner or later WRW was bound to get near Earl's #of titles...

I challenge your relative inexperience in the bowling world . I've got you by some 14 years and in those 14 years I have spoken to, dined with and competed against both Earl and WRW. So let's talk context here...

Just because 42 is one more than 41 and the PBA is trying to make a PR impact does not mean that he who gets to the number is the greatest.

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:09:51 AM »

Facts are facts; the guy has won 42 titles as a member of the toughest bowling circuit in the world. That deserves credit. Giving Walter that credit does not diminish Earl's greatness. They are both amazing players, two of the best the world has ever seen.

As for Walter's attitude, I can't speak to it personally. I've seen him in person, but I've never actually met him. I can tell you this, though, even by appearances, he seemed more friendly than quite a few of the exempt guys that I came across.

When you're among the best, there's an edge there. It's something about being the biggest, baddest boy on the block. Some guys (PBIII, Voss, etc, etc) find a way to channel that edge to only show up when they're on the lanes. Other guys exude it the second they walk into the bowling center. I mean, look at PDW. He's one of the most intense competitors you'll ever meet, but if you catch him when the lights are off and he's out of PDW mode, he's usually a decent guy to be around.

In the end, we should simply judge all of these guys based upon their skills on the lanes. Because even though it would be nice for all of them to be friendly and approachable, when it comes down to it, none of them owes that to us. I mean, are we all nice and cordial to every single stranger we meet? Probably not.
--------------------
I've only bowled 300, but I've benched 345

http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=519&ms=9130&s=2006-2007

michelle · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:24:55 AM »

quote:
the people that look at this topic and instantly say it took walter ray more time and tournaments before he got #42----you're right, it did. but, the record books in sports don't really care about this type of fact. everyone knows pete rose finished his career with more hits than ty cobb. the record books also show hank aaron hit more home runs than babe ruth. but what the record books don't tell you is that rose and aaron needed more at bats to accomplish these feats---does this fact diminish their records ? i think not.

No, other factors diminish some of the records being broken in sports such as baseball. The mere fact of being on top of a listed category that has been modified through the era's, even when it is titles, hits or HR's, does not automatically confer the title of "the greatest" in that particular sport.

shelley · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:40:23 AM »

quote:
The mere fact of being on top of a listed category ... does not automatically confer the title of "the greatest" in that particular sport.

I agree. In fact, I propose that the whole notion of "greatest" in any particular activity is so fatally flawed as to be meaningless. There's too much subjectivity in even coming up with a metric for "greatness". Couple that with the fact that over time, rules, standards, and practices change. Training becomes more focused and scientific, and there's considerably more knowledge about the nuances of the game. All of those things combine to make better and better players. In every sport.

Even trying to find "the greatest" in a narrowly defined aspect of a sport is difficult. Number of titles is a pretty focused criterion, and there seems to be a considerable debate over what really counts. Not to mention the number of "at bats" available to two different competitors. One only needs to point to someone like Brian Davis to tear that metric apart.

But it's sports, and simply the nature of the beast. The whole basis of competition is to find a person or team you can point to and declare "They're the winner!" It is only natural to extend that to the fans of the sport as well.

SH

Edited on 9/26/2006 10:34 AM

Ragnar · « **Reply #22 on:** September 26, 2006, 11:05:53 AM »

Mr. Hoppe, greatest has zero to do with number of titles. It has to do with dominance. No other bowler has EVER dominated in the way the Anthony did, period. There is a quote that may or may not have been from Earl himself, but it was true no matter who said it, "I've never lost a tournament. Sometimes I just run out of frames." No other bowler in history that I know of has had that attitude; it's what made Earl the best, end of story.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
http://ystig.com/spaghetti.jpg

BowlingWolf · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2006, 11:44:12 AM »

In any given sport, there will always be an athlete that will distinguish
himself/herself as the best performer at any given time. Some have the ability
to repeat incredible performances,and therefore become more prolific at winning.
Anointing any athlete as the greatest in their chosen sport because they have
been fortunate to repeat incredible performances is something that all of us mere
mortals tend to do--we like to idolize. I believe, however, that it is not possible
to absolutely declare anyone as the singularly greatest at any endeavor they participate,
because it cannot be compared to anyone else's accomplishments, as they have occurred
at another place and another time, under different circumstances and with different
participants. I believe anyone who is able to distinguish himself/herself as a winning
talent should be praised as a great athlete.
I just don't think that anyone can truly be considered The Greatest in any sport
(although some have carried that title, such as Muhammad Ali and Wayne Grestky).

I mention this because it dismays me when people disparage either one of these giants in
our sport (or any other great bowler for that matter, even if he hasn't won a title, such
as Rudy Revs, and Brad Angelo). Obviously Earl and Walter are great talents, and I don't
feel it's right to compare and say one is better than the other.

Everyone should feel fortunate that we have been blessed with these 2 gigantic talents that
have provided us with so many thrills, and stop bashing either one.

I remember having watched recently an old show on ESPN and Walter Ray was bowling, and
one of the commentators was Earl. Earl was clearly impressed by Walter's talent, and
did not seem one bit envious of Walter's success. In fact, he had nothing but praise
for Walter Ray Williams, and it was obvious that he relished watching him perform.
I'm sure that Walter feels the same about Earl.

Below is just a simple list of some of the greatest at the few sports mentioned.

Baseball
-Ty Cobb
-Cy Young
-Babe Ruth
-Ted Williams
-Hank Aaron
-Nolan Ryan
-Barry Bonds
-Sandy Koufax
-Walter Johnson
-Ricky Henderson

Basketball
-Bob Cousy
-Albert King
-Magic Johnson
-Larry Bird
-Reggie Miller
-Kareem Abdul Jabbar
-Wilt Chamberlain
-Bill Russell
-Michael Jordan
-Shaquille O'Neal

Boxing
-Muhammad Ali
-Sugar Ray Robinson
-Rocky Marciano
-Marvin Hagler
-Roberto Duran
-Aaron Pryor
-Sugar Ray Leonard
-Joe Louis
-Archie Moore
-Joe Frazier

Football
-Bronco Nagurski
-Joe Montana
-Terry Bradshaw
-Tom Brady
-Walter Payton
-Dan Marion
-Jerry Rice
-Mike Ditka
-Chuck Bednarick
-Fred Biletnikoff

Hockey
-Wayne Gretzky
-Mario Lemieux
-Gordie Howe
-Phil Esposito
-Frank Mahovlich
-Yvan Cournoyer
-Bobby Orr
-Bobby Clarke
-Ken Dryden
-Bobby Hull

This is obviously not a complete list. All of these greats shined, but I wouldn't say that
there existed one that was far superior to any other.

Regards,
BowlingWolf

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #24 on:** September 26, 2006, 12:15:12 PM »

Tiger. Hogan. Ruth. Graf. Anthony.

In the for what its worth department, I think Anthony was the greatest player I have ever seen. He was as far above everyone as was Ruth in his time. My reading of WRW's views is that he essentially has the same view. WRW is, however, the best righthanded bowler I have ever seen and the only one who -- in my opinion -- can be spoken of in the same breath as Anthony.
--------------------
"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

Edited on 9/26/2006 12:08 PM

tonybowls · « **Reply #25 on:** September 26, 2006, 12:25:17 PM »

Very Interesting reading. I enjoyed reading everyones opinions and theories. 2 Great Players no doubt. Anthony didn't have the type of equipment that Walter Ray uses but Williams has been dominant for almost 20 years. He's also bowling against better players than Anthony did.

shelley · « **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2006, 12:30:17 PM »

quote:
Anthony didn't have the type of equipment that Walter Ray uses

Again, how is that relevant? Does WRW have exclusive access to magical bowling balls that help him win? Or does he have access to the exact same equipment that everyone else does?

SH

Kinalyx · « **Reply #27 on:** September 26, 2006, 12:58:08 PM »

The point i was making is that with all of the advancements in bowling balls, WRW can choose which balls & which drillings work best for his game & the lane conditions. When earl was bowling, there were VERY few choices, making it harder to get to the pocket. Todays balls also carry a ton more than the balls earl used.

On a side note, sunday they showed a tournament that earl came in second in. But he averaged 250+ for all of qualifying....which is just insane, even today its crazy.

Shawn

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2006, 01:36:04 PM »

They say the two significant moments in the WRW career is when he decided to stop wheeling the lane and the dawn of reactive resin!

THere is a true expert on this site of all the stats before and after these events. I would like to see Walter Ray's statistics after he stopped wheeling the lane and compare to Earl's over just that period and see how they stack up...number of tournies versus wins!

I still think Earl was the best ever...but it is frankly not much difference than a coin flip! As to the amount of talent and accomplishment each has...it is frankly...heaven sent! Ungodly amounts! and other unbelievable talents are frankly...PDW, Mark Roth, Marshall Holman, DUUUUUKE, VOSS, Dave Davis(and...they ALL love it)....beyond comprehension!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

DP3 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 26, 2006, 02:21:28 PM »

I think the equipment theory is complete BS. None of the resin balls on the market would have made it 30 feet before it was off the lane on the conditions that Earl bowled on. It's not like if you went back in time with an Inferno and gave it to Earl he would have won 100 titles. It just doesn't work that way. The equipment is a reflection of the conditions put out at any given era.
--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game

"Only Chuck Norris can prevent forest fires."

Slopsurprise · « **Reply #30 on:** September 26, 2006, 02:21:49 PM »

quote:
The point i was making is that with all of the advancements in bowling balls, WRW can choose which balls & which drillings work best for his game & the lane conditions. When earl was bowling, there were VERY few choices, making it harder to get to the pocket. Todays balls also carry a ton more than the balls earl used.

Shawn

You have still not made a valid point my friend.

Author Topic: 42 time pba champion (Read 6858 times)

DON DRAPER

42 time pba champion

DON DRAPER

Re: 42 time pba champion

shelley

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SKIDSNAP

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Gene J Kanak

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michelle

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shelley

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Ragnar

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BowlingWolf

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Phillip Marlowe

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tonybowls

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shelley

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Kinalyx

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LuckyLefty

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DP3

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Slopsurprise

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