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Author Topic: A little bs in the rpi today  (Read 2981 times)

themachine300

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A little bs in the rpi today
« on: December 15, 2009, 04:21:19 PM »
well i''''m rooting for my ball driller randy weiss to try and regain his exemption by finished atop the rpi this week.  He''''s doing all right i guess at +46 but he called me up and told me something interesting.  He said he practiced for 2 days on all 5 patterns, cheetah was today, and his ball was bouncing off the gutter every shot no problem, but when he started practiced, he threw a couple gutters, 3 off the right...wtf is going on?  Apparently the pba lane machine ran the viper pattern on the low end of the center while it ran cheetah on the high end of the center.  Not sure exactly where it stopped and it wasn''''t on purpose, but randy got a raw deal here starting on the longer pattern.  The guys were whacking the cheetah while he was shooting clean on viper.  He said he saw so many times where bowlers would go 250-250 and then come to the low end, dump a few gutters/washouts and go 140.  

Now, this is the way i see.  Yeah all bowlers have to eventually go to the lower end of the house, but at what point makes a big deal.  If they hit it early, like he did, 200 is a good score, but the other guys are whacking them on cheetah shooting 240. For some they caught viper when the lanes had opened up, and there wasn''''t much difference and word of mouth spreads through the center that the low end is tighter.  Advantage higher end starters, disadvantage lower end.  Now I know there are lots of games left, but it doesn''''t seem fair.  One of the biggest tournaments for the regional players and this happens?

I would also like to know how this could have happend.  I don''''t know much about lane machines, but i thought once you program the pattern in, it should be good to go.  The pba directors claimed half the house whined, while the others were fine with it so they kept the scores.  The later ran tapes on the lanes and it was in fact the viper pattern.

Just wanted to vent cause I want him to do well, sorry for the long post.  Any thoughts?

*Edit* On pba.com, the standing are up and there is an article talking with the leader today, you can kinda get what I''m talking about by reading it
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Edited on 12/16/2009 1:21 AM

Edited on 12/16/2009 1:25 AM
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Curt_Dupre

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 02:00:29 AM »
Yes my friend bowled and what happened was they ran two machines to of course make it quicker to oil. the machine running lanes 1-40 was set to the viper pattern and the high end one was set to cheetah. Everyone is really pissed off about it. But they are not going to re do the tournament. David O sullivan went 793 for the first 3 then shot 150 130 180. Its unfortunate. I can't believe the PBA allowed this to happen. They just basically ruined the RPI.
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tburky

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 03:55:15 AM »
What did the bowlers do in the old days before they had computers to tell them what pattern is on the lanes? The bowlers watched their ball reaction and played the lanes accordingly. Accidents happen

riggs

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 08:33:28 AM »
It was Chameleon, not Viper on 1-38. Honest mistake.  All will be explained in my live blog that goes up starting at 12:15 p.m. today Central time.

See it here:

http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/


themachine300

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 09:33:57 AM »
Fair enough, chameleon is even tighter than viper is.  Its not about adjusting, its some bowlers had an unfair advantage that should have been avoided.  To high calibur guys like this, cheetah is almost a house shot.  How would you feel if you paid your plane ticket/hotel and went to nationals and bowled on the usbc shot, while the half of the field bowled on a modified house shot?  Loose example, but the point non the less.

And like i posted before, when you catch those other pairs is also a big deal. Some caught them very late after they had some play AND already heard through word of mouth that the pattern is completely different down here.  It wasn't fair.  Randy was grinding 200 on a fresh, tight chameleon, while someone else was peeling it off the gutter shooting 230-240 on cheetah.
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kmanestor22

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 09:59:08 AM »
quote:
Fair enough, chameleon is even tighter than viper is.  Its not about adjusting, its some bowlers had an unfair advantage that should have been avoided.  To high calibur guys like this, cheetah is almost a house shot.  How would you feel if you paid your plane ticket/hotel and went to nationals and bowled on the usbc shot, while the half of the field bowled on a modified house shot?  Loose example, but the point non the less.

And like i posted before, when you catch those other pairs is also a big deal. Some caught them very late after they had some play AND already heard through word of mouth that the pattern is completely different down here.  It wasn't fair.  Randy was grinding 200 on a fresh, tight chameleon, while someone else was peeling it off the gutter shooting 230-240 on cheetah.
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Word of mouth?  Have whoever talked kicked out of the tournament.  That's coaching and this is the exact reason that is against the rules.
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DanH78

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 11:11:17 AM »
quote:


Word of mouth?  Have whoever talked kicked out of the tournament.  That's coaching and this is the exact reason that is against the rules.
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Um, scores aren't exactly secret.  

"OMG, did you just see Bob shot 140 and high game on the pair was 175?  I saw 3 guys dump it in the ditch"  

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Unless you want to institute a rule where players aren't allowed to speak during competition, there is no way to stop them from hearing what is going on.
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Krakken

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2009, 12:51:22 PM »
quote:
What did the bowlers do in the old days before they had computers to tell them what pattern is on the lanes? The bowlers watched their ball reaction and played the lanes accordingly. Accidents happen


But the condition was the same throughout the house.  You didn't bowl 4 games on a 39 foot pattern and 2 on a 35, while others had 4 on the 35 and 2 on the 39.
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Juggernaut

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 01:54:15 PM »
What a da*n joke.  Almost like organized cheating.

  I know one laneman that would be out of a job tomorrow.

  They should have allowed a "special" squad to allow all bowlers to re-bowl all games shot on the incorrect condition.
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riggs

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009, 06:38:38 AM »
All questions of HOW it happened will be answered in the February issue of Bowlers Journal. I did an interview with lane man Steve Stevens and he explained what happened -- it's truly an amazingly bad perfect storm. I can't post what Steve told me because BJI is paying me to provide that information in its magazine and therefore owns the rights to it from me.

Juggernaut

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009, 07:17:43 AM »
quote:
All questions of HOW it happened will be answered in the February issue of Bowlers Journal. I did an interview with lane man Steve Stevens and he explained what happened -- it's truly an amazingly bad perfect storm. I can't post what Steve told me because BJI is paying me to provide that information in its magazine and therefore owns the rights to it from me.


 Not so interested in HOW it happened as I am in WHY it was left this way with no effort to correct it.

 I think we all know humans make mistakes, and one was obviously made here. What many don't see is why there was no effort to "correct" it for those who had to bowl on the wrong condition. I understand there was no "perfect" solution, but re-bowling those from the wrong condition could've at least been offered. There should have been time after the initial squads were over, IF it was discovered immediately (or sooner, like during play).
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Strider

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 08:03:55 AM »
I find this kind of ironic because of some of the posts we've had on here in recent months.  Obviously there should never be a tournament where some bowlers bowl on one pattern while others bowl on another.

But there have been many posts here where someone mentions that a tournament was supposed to have pattern X applied and they didn't bowl well because they were geared up for pattern Y.  The usual responses are something like "whatever happened back when they didn't tell you what was laid out and you had to figure it out for yourself".  These are some of the best bowlers out there.  Why did their scores suffer so much when they hit the pattern that wasn't Cheetah (whether it was Viper or Chameleon)?  Why weren't they able to figure it out better?  If the scoring pace on Cheetah was 230, why couldn't they average 215-220 on the other?  These are very good bowlers with lots of equipment at their disposal.  Did they get stuck trying to make the gutter work like Cheetah is supposed to play?  Isn't that what us regulars get blamed for when bowling on a PBA Experience league?  Why wouldn't they take what the lanes were giving them, especially after word got out that the lower half of the house was different?  Again, it's not good that some were bowling on one pattern while others had another just trying to figure out the discrepancy between the scores on the two patterns.
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Strider

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 09:28:22 AM »
You completely missed the point of my post.  Twice I said that it wasn't fair.  I was just wondering why the pro's didn't do a little better job of adjusting.  They shouldn't be 30+ pins from pattern to pattern.  They should know within 1-2 shots that it's not what they were expecting and immediately try something different.  Don't just camp at the gutter and look dumbfounded when the ball doesn't walk to the pocket.
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Strider

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 10:06:56 AM »
On the "old" Cheetah (which maybe they're back to), the pros did average quite a bit higher than the other patterns.  I'm trying to find averages per pattern on the PBA site, but can't at the present moment.  I don't think there's a huge average difference between the patterns for the pros.  Certainly not 30+ pins as this post suggests.  Two plus years ago when the gutter would spark, the pros tore up Cheetah.  Last year Cheetah played much tougher.  I know they changed the lengths back to original, but don't know if they moved the volumes and side to side ratios exactly as they used to be.  If some are bowling on the original Cheetah (where the pros did average 240-250) and some on Viper/Chameleon, maybe I could understand the scoring pace difference.  Based on last year's numbers, I just don't see it.
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SleepOnIce

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Re: A little bs in the rpi today
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 10:47:29 AM »
Just for comparison at the WSOB it took a 228 average to make the Cheetah round of 28, while it took a 207 average to make the round of 28 on the Chameleon.

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