Post by: northface28 on February 03, 2008, 03:38:22 PM
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Mea Culpa
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 03, 2008, 11:45:12 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: notgoodenuf on February 03, 2008, 11:55:22 PM
Post by: northface28 on February 04, 2008, 01:00:28 AM
quote:
Is that Walter Ray's problem too?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
No. His ball reads the lane differently.
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Mea Culpa
Post by: Dan Belcher on February 04, 2008, 06:06:11 AM
quote:Because when he can actually get relaxed and pry the ball off his hands, it works? He made it all the way to the friggin' TV show doing just that, so I think it's pretty obvious it works...
Well can someone explain to me while he insists on going so straight on TV?
Post by: Danes07 on February 04, 2008, 06:10:15 AM
sometimes I think he does try to throw it too straight. There have been many times where he had to kill his release so much to play up the boards that he just missed and got nothing on the ball and flagged the pocket. I know this happens to other guys too, but sometimes to me it seems that he fells that he has to play straight, even when he has to fight the lane to do it.
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Post by: tommymo on February 04, 2008, 07:12:42 AM
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Post by: Slopsurprise on February 04, 2008, 07:19:03 AM
Post by: Danes07 on February 04, 2008, 07:26:20 AM
He needs to win a tournament soon....no unlucky breaks, no missed easy spares, not winning cause he got lucky. He needs to win a tournament by bowling as good as he can. That will help him shake a few of those demons. Just my opinion though.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
Post by: bowlingnut07 on February 04, 2008, 07:34:10 AM
and i u know chris that guy CAN HOOK THE CRAP out of the ball
if he changes released he can cover the lane. but he plays what the lanes give him
he may have choked but hes making a GREAT LIVING doing what he does
Post by: Gene J Kanak on February 04, 2008, 09:43:02 AM
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Post by: Walking E on February 04, 2008, 10:33:04 AM
I would assume it's a coincidence that when he switched to Columbia, the lane conditions changed at the time to generally favor a straighter shot. I've seen him throw side rotation and play the big hook with Columbia equipment as well, so I think the general lane conditions have more to do with it than anything.
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: Russell on February 04, 2008, 11:00:54 AM
By the way northface talent does not mean "hook"....there are plenty of people out there that can hook the world but suck.....look at Tommy Jones...he was an average tour player until he learned to play straighter.
Slopsurprise...how do you explain winning 100s of 1000s of dollars as an ameteur bowler. He is the main reason they started changing rules in Vegas....they got tired of him winning everything.
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Post by: Danes07 on February 04, 2008, 11:10:11 AM
Was the sarcasm at the beginning of the post really that necessary?
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
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Post by: Russell on February 04, 2008, 11:18:49 AM
quote:
I don't think anybody in this thread was claiming to be a ball company rep or be an expert in the game. Just voicing their opinions as Chris Barnes and the problems he's had on TV. I never know expressing an opinion was such a horrible thing...its an opinion.
Was the sarcasm at the beginning of the post really that necessary?
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
Yes it is...when every week there is thread after thread about Barnes choking, or someone else throwing bad shots, or somoene else making poor ball moves. It never ends....sure it's everyone's right to voice an opinion...but it's my right too....
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Post by: JMORRIS on February 04, 2008, 11:19:59 AM
Maybe he's paying for all that good fortune $$$ now?
He'll turn it around. He makes too many shows, not to win one.
I've rode Barnes all the way to being in 1st place overall in the PBA Fantasy Game.
Thank you Mr. Barnes!
Jermey
Post by: Danes07 on February 04, 2008, 11:24:24 AM
I also agree that there are way too many people second guessing the pros. I'd never pressume to think that I could beat these guys on those patterns. I'd be lucky to shoot 150. Too many armchair professionals who shoot 220+ on the great wall of china and think they can go toe to toe with Walter Ray or Chris Barnes.
I just think Chris has gotten into a bit of a rut...like a baseball player in a hitting slump. Once he breaks out of it, the rest of the tour better look out, he's gonna be trouble.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
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Post by: northface28 on February 04, 2008, 11:35:39 AM
quote:
I don't think anybody in this thread was claiming to be a ball company rep or be an expert in the game. Just voicing their opinions as Chris Barnes and the problems he's had on TV. I never know expressing an opinion was such a horrible thing...its an opinion.
Was the sarcasm at the beginning of the post really that necessary?
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
Don't rationalize or objectively assess anything on this board, or else you run the risk of being a "know it all", "wanna-be ball rep" etc. Conversely, can I not say to some of you, what makes you a ball rep? Hook, is a relative term, where did I state that I correlate hook with talent? All I said is that I thing he should create some angle down lane that probably would have been a better way to get my point across. During the week, I have seen him wreck the place and he is usually hooking it some, on tv it appears that he is bowling in a phone booth. I was looking for insight on the subject, not the juvenile mud-slinging most of you are accustom to.
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Mea Culpa
Post by: Danes07 on February 04, 2008, 11:57:28 AM
quote:quote:
I don't think anybody in this thread was claiming to be a ball company rep or be an expert in the game. Just voicing their opinions as Chris Barnes and the problems he's had on TV. I never know expressing an opinion was such a horrible thing...its an opinion.
Was the sarcasm at the beginning of the post really that necessary?
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
Don't rationalize or objectively assess anything on this board, or else you run the risk of being a "know it all", "wanna-be ball rep" etc. Conversely, can I not say to some of you, what makes you a ball rep? Hook, is a relative term, where did I state that I correlate hook with talent? All I said is that I thing he should create some angle down lane that probably would have been a better way to get my point across. During the week, I have seen him wreck the place and he is usually hooking it some, on tv it appears that he is bowling in a phone booth. I was looking for insight on the subject, not the juvenile mud-slinging most of you are accustom to.
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Mea Culpa
Just so you know I wasn't posting against you in that post. I was actually asking Russell what the need was for so much sarcasm in his post. I was wondering why he was being as sarcastic as he was towards other peoples opinions.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
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Post by: NOTHUMB on February 04, 2008, 01:17:07 PM
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Post by: BrianCRX90 on February 04, 2008, 08:16:32 PM
His roll has upsides and downsides. He generally can hit the pocket more then most the pros on tour however when they get tough he leaves a lot of 10 pins and 2 pins or a left side combo.
Post by: Russell on February 04, 2008, 09:05:21 PM
quote:
I thought in the doubles match if there was any time to hook it was there. The Tournament of Champions played better straight. His line was more in on the Chameleon pattern and did not look good. I know he can hook it as much as Wes Malott, I have seen him in the past.
His roll has upsides and downsides. He generally can hit the pocket more then most the pros on tour however when they get tough he leaves a lot of 10 pins and 2 pins or a left side combo.
Yeah they looked real good for Fagan playing in....
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Post by: Danes07 on February 05, 2008, 06:54:39 AM
Personally I think he's gotten into a rut and like a baseball player in a slump, he's thinking about it too much. He'll break out of it, he's too good not too.
In the mean time, people are going to wonder why he struggles so much on TV...and I don't think its because people on this forum talk about him in these postings.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
Edited on 2/5/2008 7:54 AM
Post by: northface28 on February 05, 2008, 09:22:09 AM
quote:
Barnes' problem is people posting this negative crap. He doesn't have anything wrong with his game besides not handling pressure well lately...He just needs to take some time off I think..but that's just my guess, maybe he's trying to work his way out of it..All I know is, everyone in this thread couldn't beat Barnes in a match in the first place so shut the pie holes..
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BEAR THE CROWN!
I can't beat Chris Barnes, but I can definitely beat you. So I'll shut my "pie-hole" when you stop consuming pie in bulk quantity.
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Mea Culpa
Edited on 2/5/2008 11:08 AM
Post by: Gazoo on February 05, 2008, 09:49:30 AM
Post by: NicholasE on February 05, 2008, 10:05:23 AM
I usually bowl about 220 or so on a THS and then the score drops down to 150's on these patterns, but thats my fault due to incosistant release.
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Post by: Krakken on February 05, 2008, 10:05:27 AM
Have any of you ever bowled on a PBA pattern on TV? My guess is no. Until you do you have no idea if he is going too straight, or the ball is the problem, or he chokes or whatever.
Giving your opinion is great, but bashing one of the games all time greats by calling him a choker, or questioning his choice of angles is just stupid.
I mean, you don't think in the 60 minutes of practive that they get before the lights come on he tried to hook it to see what his reaction is? I saw him do that in Vegas, and there was way too much over/under reaction.
As Norm Duke says. "Straighter is greater"
Post by: northface28 on February 05, 2008, 10:16:12 AM
quote:
The funny thing is everyone on here is saying they think he chokes, or they think he plays too straight on TV, or his ball switch from Brunswick to Columbia may have caused it.
Have any of you ever bowled on a PBA pattern on TV? My guess is no. Until you do you have no idea if he is going too straight, or the ball is the problem, or he chokes or whatever.
Giving your opinion is great, but bashing one of the games all time greats by calling him a choker, or questioning his choice of angles is just stupid.
I mean, you don't think in the 60 minutes of practive that they get before the lights come on he tried to hook it to see what his reaction is? I saw him do that in Vegas, and there was way too much over/under reaction.
As Norm Duke says. "Straighter is greater"
So since he is Chris Barnes, he is beyond questioning? Please, stop. Obviously something is wrong as he has displayed the ability to consistently fail in the clutch. I will be the first to tell you I'm not a very good bowler. But that in no way diminishes or lessens my opinion. Some of you ride his sack so hard that you cannot objectively look at things for what they are. He wants to go straight, fine. But when you cannot pry it off your hand in pressure situations and you are going straight, like Chris Barnes, bad things usually and have happened to him. Its called critical thinking, are you familiar with it?
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Mea Culpa
Post by: Krakken on February 05, 2008, 11:08:02 AM
and for the record I don't really have an opinion of him one way or the other. I admire his perserverence and his work ethic. My Screen Name should tell you who I am a fan of.
Oh and for as many times as he has failed in the clutch, I am sure there are many more that he has came through on. So who are you to say he has failed more than he has succeeded with his straighter approach?
And for the record, the TOC one wasn't a choke in the last frame, but a really bad miss on the 10 pin, which EVERYONE has, he just had his on TV. how does that have anything to do with how straight he plays?
Just a little critical thinking for you.
Edited on 2/5/2008 12:10 PM
Post by: northface28 on February 05, 2008, 11:20:24 AM
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Mea Culpa
Post by: Krakken on February 05, 2008, 11:42:05 AM
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on February 05, 2008, 11:46:38 AM
In other words, if he makes the spare no one would be saying anything and his roll would have won him that major.
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Edited on 2/5/2008 12:47 PM
Post by: Necromancer on February 05, 2008, 08:46:23 PM
quote:
Is that Walter Ray's problem too?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
OWNED!
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Post by: Joe Jr on February 05, 2008, 08:51:43 PM
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Post by: LuckyLefty on February 06, 2008, 02:23:17 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS... but he did listen to a mutual friend of ours a couple of years ago before he won like $330K in 3 weeks. His coaching consisted of...."you are grea!"...."Do YOU believe it?"
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: CHawk15 on February 07, 2008, 10:38:07 AM
quote:
Most of the higher scores that week were straight guys (Wes Malott excluded) The big boomers did nothing, Sean Rash, Tommy Jones, Robert Smith. Just look who made the show and who makes the show every week. The straighter guys are more consistent than the hookers!!
I disagree, the ToC pattern was a multi-angle pattern. PDW and Shafer made the show hooking the ball and Barnes and Haugen played straighter. It looked like the straighter players had a slight edge on Sunday, mainly because Weber and Shafer burned up the inside during the first match. I do agree that Barnes isn't as willing to make big moves as the greats like Norm Duke, WRW and Pete Weber are. It seems to me when he loses his look on TV, he panics becasue he knows it's a 1 game match and he has to make a perfect move, what usually happens is he either tries to "Shim to win" which doesn't give you much room for error or makes a ball change that usually doesn't work out. I think (and I am by no means an expert) that he needs to trust his instincts more like the greats like PDW, WRW, PBIII and Norm Duke do and if it's not your day, it's not your day. If he trusts his instincts more and just bowls on Sunday, Chris will win more tournaments than he loses.
As far as the ToC goes, although Barnes whiffed the 10 pin, Haugen deserves a ton of credit for not giving up and giving himself a chance.
Post by: ccrider on February 07, 2008, 11:14:08 AM
Barnes missed a ten pin spare that he needed to win. It happens. It is not the end of the world for him. He will be back, playing straight or hooking it, depending on how he feels and he will win. He will not be in this slump forever and all professionals have slumps. Even Tiger and Jordan.
Barnes has won before and knows what it takes to win. Don't count him out.
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain.
Post by: northface28 on February 07, 2008, 11:18:49 AM
quote:quote:
Most of the higher scores that week were straight guys (Wes Malott excluded) The big boomers did nothing, Sean Rash, Tommy Jones, Robert Smith. Just look who made the show and who makes the show every week. The straighter guys are more consistent than the hookers!!
I disagree, the ToC pattern was a multi-angle pattern. PDW and Shafer made the show hooking the ball and Barnes and Haugen played straighter. It looked like the straighter players had a slight edge on Sunday, mainly because Weber and Shafer burned up the inside during the first match. I do agree that Barnes isn't as willing to make big moves as the greats like Norm Duke, WRW and Pete Weber are. It seems to me when he loses his look on TV, he panics becasue he knows it's a 1 game match and he has to make a perfect move, what usually happens is he either tries to "Shim to win" which doesn't give you much room for error or makes a ball change that usually doesn't work out. I think (and I am by no means an expert) that he needs to trust his instincts more like the greats like PDW, WRW, PBIII and Norm Duke do and if it's not your day, it's not your day. If he trusts his instincts more and just bowls on Sunday, Chris will win more tournaments than he loses.
As far as the ToC goes, although Barnes whiffed the 10 pin, Haugen deserves a ton of credit for not giving up and giving himself a chance.
Finally, a well thought out response instead of the saturation of Barnes "ball-washing".
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Mea Culpa
Post by: Krakken on February 07, 2008, 11:27:49 AM
quote:quote:quote:
Most of the higher scores that week were straight guys (Wes Malott excluded) The big boomers did nothing, Sean Rash, Tommy Jones, Robert Smith. Just look who made the show and who makes the show every week. The straighter guys are more consistent than the hookers!!
I disagree, the ToC pattern was a multi-angle pattern. PDW and Shafer made the show hooking the ball and Barnes and Haugen played straighter. It looked like the straighter players had a slight edge on Sunday, mainly because Weber and Shafer burned up the inside during the first match. I do agree that Barnes isn't as willing to make big moves as the greats like Norm Duke, WRW and Pete Weber are. It seems to me when he loses his look on TV, he panics becasue he knows it's a 1 game match and he has to make a perfect move, what usually happens is he either tries to "Shim to win" which doesn't give you much room for error or makes a ball change that usually doesn't work out. I think (and I am by no means an expert) that he needs to trust his instincts more like the greats like PDW, WRW, PBIII and Norm Duke do and if it's not your day, it's not your day. If he trusts his instincts more and just bowls on Sunday, Chris will win more tournaments than he loses.
As far as the ToC goes, although Barnes whiffed the 10 pin, Haugen deserves a ton of credit for not giving up and giving himself a chance.
Finally, a well thought out response instead of the saturation of Barnes "ball-washing".
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Mea Culpa
It may have been a muliple angles pattern, but so is Viper and Cheetah, and week-in and week-out, the straighter guys are finishing higher than the max rev guys. Not saying the Max rev guys don't win, but most of the time your higher finishers are straighter players.
Post by: Krakken on February 11, 2008, 06:49:47 AM
Like I said, straighter is greater, just liek Walter Ray and Norm Duke do it.