The 11th Frame: Changes for PBA Tour's 2012-13 season don't alter tough bottom line for players

http://11thframe.com/page/blog_id_5192

BTW, I knew Matt and talked shop with him from time to time. A great man! RIP!

Andy, nobody was being "tough" on Riggs until he exploded when somebody mentioned things they overheard at Bowl Expo.  People can do that on here.  We don't need to put our names to put it.  Its no different if somebody says they hear that a ball company is coming out with so and so.  No proof is needed.  No verification of sources is needed.  The truth comes out when said ball is introduced or not.  A little more humility and an apology to the poster he railed would help Mr. Riggs' cause.  Last thing I'm saying on the matter. 

It was NOT overheard at Bowl Expo. It was claimed to be "second hand" from someone who supposedly was at Bowl Expo.

If true and someone with credibility wished to make actual accusations about Tour players who are doing the Tour and the sport wrong, I'd write that story! And give the actual person accused a chance to defend themselves.

Second hand hearsay of a general nature merely besmirches the reputations of every Tour player ... and those guys have tough enough lives and from everything I know bust those tails trying to make the Tour and their lives better. Pro-ams, clinics, charitable events, etc., etc., etc. with little, if any, compensation.

I would expect that most of the anonymous tools on this forum who might make such a post would have zero knowledge of and experience at trying to bowl for a living.

Don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes ... or at least have first-hand knowledge of them walking in those shoes.

This was second hand from bowl expo last year. Not saying all pros are this way but that many have this mind set that they don't have to promote themselves or their sport. Anyone that says otherwise based on their personal experiences the past few years I'm sure will come forward. How about you name all of the players you don't think this applies to and then we can go from there.

Anyone been to any of the select PBA Tour stops can probably chip in there experiences.

It was NOT overheard at Bowl Expo. It was claimed to be "second hand" from someone who supposedly was at Bowl Expo.

If true and someone with credibility wished to make actual accusations about Tour players who are doing the Tour and the sport wrong, I'd write that story! And give the actual person accused a chance to defend themselves.

Second hand hearsay of a general nature merely besmirches the reputations of every Tour player ... and those guys have tough enough lives and from everything I know bust those tails trying to make the Tour and their lives better. Pro-ams, clinics, charitable events, etc., etc., etc. with little, if any, compensation.

I would expect that most of the anonymous tools on this forum who might make such a post would have zero knowledge of and experience at trying to bowl for a living.

Don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes ... or at least have first-hand knowledge of them walking in those shoes.

Quote from: kidlost2000 on July 09, 2012, 06:48:18 AM

This was second hand from bowl expo last year. Not saying all pros are this way but that many have this mind set that they don't have to promote themselves or their sport. Anyone that says otherwise based on their personal experiences the past few years I'm sure will come forward. How about you name all of the players you don't think this applies to and then we can go from there.

Anyone been to any of the select PBA Tour stops can probably chip in there experiences.

I was on your side Riggs before the last line of clinics etc on receiving little to no compensation.  Now there are probably numerous cases where that is absolutely true.  But in the couple of experiences we've had with a few pros, that isn't true at all.

Example 1 - Parker Bohn III to come to a center costs about $2500 for a full day showing.  Granted this was quite a few years ago but that's quite a bit of money for an 8 hour shift.

Example 2 - Johnny Petraglia came to our center a number of years ago.  The cost was our center buying (x) amount of balls from Brunswick.

Example 3 - Walter Ray - We were interested in him stopping by our center during a tour stop in our region, I don't remember the exact cost but it wasn't at all cheap.

Now i'm not arguing your initial posts about "hear say" events but these are real life stories.  Do I think they should of been paid to attend these clinics? Absolutely, but $2500 is tough to swallow for a 6-8 hour event. 

Other than that I fully agree with you about this other character's comments.

I get your point Storm ... but ...

Keep in mind that you are talking Hall of Famers here. What do you think it costs to have a gold HOFer come to your course, or a football/baseball/hoops HOFer come to an event? LOL. Not that bowling is those sports.

And what do you think the run of the mill Tour player gets? It's not anywhere near what those guys get!

I did stuff when I was on Tour and still do today for nothing. Granted I was a Tour hack but I am a USBC Hall of Famer now -- if that means anything LOL. And one center opening I did when I was on Tour Pete Weber did for $500 and transportation costs and he was the best then. 

I spoke to an Illinois High School banquet and the Sheboygan Hall of Fame for free this year. (Sheboygan did later send me a gift card for gas.) All about giving back cuz I've gotten so much from the game ... and I don't bowl for a living as the Tour guys do so it's easier for me to do that I think. 

These guys bowl for their jobs. What do you think a Hall of Famer should get paid for a day of work (non-charity).

Don't get me wrong these guys deserve compensation for their time, but like you stated they aren't football, baseball, golf, etc players though I wish they were paid like said sports. 

I was simply expressing my experiences on the subject from first hand knowledge, unlike other people on this thread.  I have a ton of respect for your accomplishments and I also agree with just about everything you have posted.

It was NOT overheard at Bowl Expo. It was claimed to be "second hand" from someone who supposedly was at Bowl Expo.

If true and someone with credibility wished to make actual accusations about Tour players who are doing the Tour and the sport wrong, I'd write that story! And give the actual person accused a chance to defend themselves.

Second hand hearsay of a general nature merely besmirches the reputations of every Tour player ... and those guys have tough enough lives and from everything I know bust those tails trying to make the Tour and their lives better. Pro-ams, clinics, charitable events, etc., etc., etc. with little, if any, compensation.

I would expect that most of the anonymous tools on this forum who might make such a post would have zero knowledge of and experience at trying to bowl for a living.

Don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes ... or at least have first-hand knowledge of them walking in those shoes.

Quote from: kidlost2000 on July 09, 2012, 06:48:18 AM

This was second hand from bowl expo last year. Not saying all pros are this way but that many have this mind set that they don't have to promote themselves or their sport. Anyone that says otherwise based on their personal experiences the past few years I'm sure will come forward. How about you name all of the players you don't think this applies to and then we can go from there.

Anyone been to any of the select PBA Tour stops can probably chip in there experiences.

I will leave it at this, when the guy who runs our proshop goes to bowl expo and comes back with this information after talking with his EBI reps I give him the benefit of the doubt. I didn't ask names, I didn't plan on publishing a story because I honestly don't care one way or another. The PBA tour doesn't tour and it is between the company and the paid bowlers as to how they want to handle their business. Maybe the EBI rep hates some of their staff players, maybe not. I have heard similar stories about Chris Barnes years ago when he was with Brunswick.  Once again, I could care less if they do or not because I know for a fact looking at their tour schedule they aren't coming to my town or probably 99% of any others that are on here. I'd hope if they did at any of their stops they would do what they can to promote a good image(a given) and talk with the fans, and the proshop workers and ect. But from what the rep was saying to the local owner was they think that is below them to talk with proshops and employees ect just on general product and any thing else sales related and choose not to. I guess many feel their bowling is enough to promote the product. I;m not referring to going out to random centers to start talking to people and proshops. This is in reference to places they are bowling and being asked to talk with the local shops ect about sales and product. Yes they should be paid if they are being brought in to do clinics and other things of the nature.

Eventually they all better get jobs at USBC because when the PBA is all but dead here in the states it will be that or falling back on other real jobs. For every stuck up pro I'd hope there is at least three Jeff Carters out there. I had seen the womens tour several times and they were every bit as nice and great at promotions when they visited.

You stay classy, Impending Doom.  What a surprise that you took the opposite side of an issue I am on.  Wow, didn't see that coming at all    Its a moderated forum or I'd tell you what you could to yourself but I'm sure you've been told by so many people you can figure it out. 

As far as our "professional journalist" goes, you keep splitting hairs to justify your position that you're the only one that can blog anything about the tour if that's what it takes in your head to justity your existence.  Just keep telling yourself that you truly are great