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Author Topic: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?  (Read 2685 times)

charlest

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Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« on: June 08, 2011, 12:50:45 AM »
We all know that for bowlers, even good ones, used to house patterns and amounts find it very tough to bowl on PBA sport patterns in these PBAX leagues. The higher amounts of oil generally used plus the the oil ratio (usually 2:1 or so) across all the boards make it very difficult even for those who are willing to adjust and to learn to play these patterns. Having bowled in several of them over the last 10 years or so and having watched many friends participate in many of them, I no longer why attendance in such leagues is and never has been what it should be.
 
Remember now, I still talking about bowlers who know this is going to be very hard and expect their average to drop anywhere from 25 to 40 pins or more and they still want to bowl on these patterns and make themselves better bowlers.
 
So I wonder why house who host such leagues make it so difficult on the bowlers, making "apparently" careless mistakes with the oil machine and the way the oil is applied. Not only are these leagues more expensive, there is also the extra SPORT USBC sanctioning charge. It would seem to be in their best interests to insure the whole environment is working properly. It seems, tp my eyes, that, with rare exceptions, it is not.
 
Yes, people are human and mistakes happen, but it seems like it happens on an almost regular basis in these leagues, most of which is my area, take place during the summer.
 
This whole post was caused mainly by what I saw last night, watching 2 friends bowl in their 3rd week of their PBAX doubles league. They went in with their eyes open, knowing all the things I said above. They were willing to suffer for the sake of their game but based on the way that house treated them and the bowling environment, if I were in that league, I would have 2nd thoughts about continuing.  
 
Both are lower rev players, one around 250, the other around 175-200. Both have slightly higher than average ball speed, BUT both were using very strong balls with a lot of surface (and no, they weren't burning up). Both used their 2nd strongest ball. One used a 600 grit (green pad) Rogue Cell; he also had a Nano, which was too strong. The other had a P3000 grit Arsenal Reactive; His strongest ball was a P2000 grit 930T, which was too strong also.
 
The 6 board and outside was out of bounds on their pair, yet on the next lane, a guy with about the same 250 rev rate as one of my friends was easily playing 10 at the arrows out to 5 board all 3 games. Neither of my friends could get the ball out to 5 and have it come anywhere near the pocket. Even if the lower rate bowler play across 5 (not even directly up 5), the ball would at best hit the 3 pin. FYI these are Brunswick Anvillane surface in good shape as far as I can tell. So the lanes should take the oil the same way. Why they took the oil so differently, I can't tell. And they oiled immediately before league.
 
Their best breakpoint was around 9/10 board.They told me that the first 2 weeks of league, using the Chameleon pattern was just about the same. One week they were able to use the 5 board but that shot disappeared after the first game.
 
Then there was the approaches. I have trouble with bad approaches but I have 3G adjustable soles. These guys NEVER, EVER have any trouble with any approaches. Neither of them slid 1" all night. With as little as they do slide (2" - 4"), they were sticking all night long even with their slipperiest insert. ANd it wasn't raining or really humid. They were synthetic approaches but I had never seen even new synthetics shine like these did. Many bowlers had the Bowlers' Slide Sock. Even that great device didn't help. Thankfully, no one took out the Easy Slide. (I would have been tempted, if my teflon inserts didn't work.)
 
These are just 2 examples I saw last night. I've experienced others, like "Oh, we put out the Shark pattern, even though we were supposed to put out the Cheetah, because we forgot to change the machine before we oiled ..."  Many people might very well bring a different set of balls for these 2 patterns, given they might not know exactly what to expect, only the difference in the amounts of oil. I'd say 70% of us that night had to bowl on heavy oil with our light oil balls. That has happened more often than i care to think about.
 
So, again, this kind of league requires a little bit of care and thought and merest iota of consideration for the bowlers PAYING for this, on the part of management. Yet it seems that they regard these leagues with even more contempt than they hold for regular leagues. Small wonder participation is shrinking, at least in my area. Of course, there are exceptions. I know of 2 houses that do make the extra effort to help insure things go right in these leagues, but I think that has to do more with the individual managers and assistant managers who are responsible for the leagues, rather than the house itself. Others act as if they could care less.
 
There's another friend who is also bowling in a PBAX league this summer in another house. I have to go see him one night and see how he's doing. He's a much better bowler and in that league the owner is also bowling, so I assume he'll make sure the lanes are done right and the bowlers are taken care of.


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milorafferty

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2011, 09:07:02 AM »
I agree with the bulk of what you are saying Jeff. I bowl PBAX leagues winter and summer. In winter, I bowl the sport league in only one house (Earl Anthony's Dublin Bowl), there we have an ex PBA pro who manages the lanes, so you can count on the conditions being consistent.
 
In summer, I am able to bowl an additional sport league, and there it is a crap shoot. Sometimes I think the lane guy does it on purpose actually. LOL
 
As for how the lanes/patterns play differently, I suspect a lot of this has to do with the individual bowler more than the pattern. Even with similar revs and ball speed, the sport shots respond differently to axis tilt and rotation angle. So two 16 mph/250 rev bowlers can have very dissimilar results. 
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TheGame300

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2011, 11:50:55 AM »
Sounds like the PBA experience league I bowl in the winter.  What house is this at?  I see you are from NJ and it sounds a lot like the house I bowl at.  Especially the approaches in the summer because they are synthetic.

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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 01:42:03 PM »
I have seen much of the same things as Jeff posted.  Wrong pattern applied to the lanes, sticky/dirty approaches, etc.
 
What I hate is showing up to bowl in the PBAExp league and having to sign the waiver before bowling because the pattern is not in compliance, which means that any honor scores will not receive the Sport awards, only the regular USBC awards.  This happens about 30-40% of the time and we are paying more for this privilege.  Most of the time the shot was out of compliance on the left side of the lane, about the 6-10 board from the left side, and we did not have any left-handers in the league which it would have affected more.  The house just repaired the lane machine so perhaps this problem will disappear.
 
Even with all of that, I will still be bowling the sport league next season because I still like the challenge even if I do fail at it.  : )
 
 


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Sunshine n Lollipops

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2011, 04:12:50 PM »
I'm sorry but I just can't understand the OP's obsession with oil.  Most posts he is complaining how the lanes are too dry and why won't they put oil down.  Now it's there's too much oil and it's not in the right place.  How about just bowling for a change and adapting to what's out there?  It's just excuse making.   



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Strider

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2011, 05:46:41 PM »
It sounds like he has a problem with different lanes reacting very different from one another, probably from how they were dressed.  Most of my former PBA leagues changed pairs for each game, but one did not and I noticed what he did.  Some people had free hook while other lanes looked extremely tight.  You scores had as much to do with which pair you were assigned as opposed to how well you threw the ball.  Some nights you had the wide open lane right from the get go and other nights it stayed tight all night no matter who was throwing on it.


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Sunshine n Lollipops

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 06:57:02 PM »
And that is my point, strider.  You have to bowl and adjust to what you are given.  It's the nature of the sport.  Guys that always complain about the shot are just making excuses.  IMHO.



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Strider

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2011, 09:04:36 PM »
Yes and no.  If you're supposed to be bowling on Shark and you're throwing a 1000 grit Virtual Gravity straight down 12, and the guy next to you with a similar game is playing 20 to 7 with a polished Tropical Heat, you're obviously not bowling on the same thing.  Sure you have to adjust and deal with the hand you were given, but it's aggravating to know the house couldn't at least make the two pairs similar.  Maybe you can make your line score better, but these names sport patterns should at least have the characteristics of how they were designed.

 

The house I've bowled sport patterns on the last two years uses a regressive point system.  They have also done a very good job of consistency between pairs (we switch pairs each game so I see 8 lanes per night).  But if they didn't and my scores were being compared to people who had a modified house shot while I'm on an almost flat pattern, that's not exactly fair.

 

Besides that, if I'm supposed to be bowling on Shark (and paid extra money to assure that I am), I darn well want to be experiencing Shark, not just what some idiot happened to put out.  Maybe I'm preparing for a tournament putting out Shark.  Practicing on Cheetah or a house shot isn't going to help.


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BrianCRX90

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 02:10:31 PM »
If the PBAX shots are not compliant the house should be fined if caught. At least that would but an end to that. I mean....what is the extra cost for if the the maintenance guy is not placing out the right shot?
 
I again am bowling the PBAX this summer and Chameleon was exactly how I've bowled on it last year and the practice shots my house puts up the sunday morning and to me still the most difficult pbax shot there is. Cheetah was pretty much how I remembered it and scored better on it.



jensm

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2011, 12:27:49 AM »
Applying a sport condition in a house where a THS is the norm can go very wrong if the laneman isn't careful. To begin with, even a Sanction oil machine needs to be run six lanes in order for the pattern to set (as per Kegel's recommendation). And that's provided that the machine does the job of cleaning the lane at the outset.
 
If the laneman doesn't make sure that the machine is properly prepared for cleaning and if he/she fails to inspect that the machine does the job, the bowlers will suffer. And the lanes used for the sport league will not get the same oill pattern if the laneman doesn't follow Kegel's recommendation and run the oil machine six times before he/she oils the lanes for the league.
 


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charlest

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Re: Houses providing PBAX conditions for leagues?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 04:51:45 PM »
The house, that initiated this post in my mind, where my 2 friends are bowling in a PBAX league, is now laying out the Scorpion pattern. 2 nights ago, on the Sunday practice session, where they lay out the pattern to be used on the Tuesday night league, one friend found a distinct breakpoint, 8 board area, on the "supposed" Scorpion pattern. He played 2nd arrow out to the 8 board. On the Cheetah, where I thought the shot was, for him, down the 7 board, he couldn't get a consistent reaction.
 
Keep in mind that for the previous two 3 week session, one using the Chameleon and one the Cheetah, he found no specific breakpoint, even when using his P2000 grit Nano (he has more speed than revs). Yet, now on the Scorpion, supposedly the heaviest oiled PBA pattern (even heavier than the Shark), he had a specific, and, according to his enthusiastic report in Sunday's email, an easily hit breakpoint area.
 
They're bowling tonight (Tuesday) and I can't wait to hear what happened.


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