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Author Topic: comparing bowling and poker  (Read 2437 times)

Platypus22

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comparing bowling and poker
« on: April 02, 2008, 05:52:02 AM »
The PBA is trying to copy what the PGA is doing with golf. Obviously that's not working. A lot of people (especially me) have argued that the PBA could take a page out of the poker playbook. Well, let's look at some ideas that they could use to mimic televised poker.

1) Every poker show that's being shown on tv is being shown delayed. Usually VERY delayed. They do a good job in post production editing out the "boring" stuff so that they can keep the interest of the casual poker fan. Could the PBA learn something here? I don't know. But it's worth further examintion.

2) Televised poker tournaments RARELY have an overlay. Typically, all of the prize pool money is comprised entirely from entry fees. Sure, this may seem unfair, especially since that's not how the PGA does it, or many other sports do it. BUT, it's not working in bowling. Time to change. This would allow the PGA to use that money to drive the business.

3) There needs to be a way to get amateurs into the tournaments. The buy-in to a World Poker Tour tournament is at least $10k. The VAST majority of the amateurs that you'll see on tv all got there by playing in sattelite tournaments. The PBA needs to figure out a system to put in place to seed tournaments with amateurs.

4) Tournaments either need a "luck" component, or need to be shorter - something that makes them attractive to an amateur. Amateurs all know that the pros are better than them, but in poker they're willing to take a shot because they think they can get lucky if they play their A-Game. Professional poker players are fine with the luck component of the game, because they know that in the long run, skill will prevail. Professional bowlers would no doubt learn to adapt that philosphy.

I'm sure there's more...but I'm tired of typing at the moment.

Anyone have anything they want to add?

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dogman666

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 02:07:58 PM »
I likey.  I for one could not possibly bowl that many games which is why I put bowling at least pro bowling in the athlete section.  I also play poker and love to play against the pros because they have problems playing against donks that don't necessarily play according to the book
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Urethane Game

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 02:09:13 PM »
I couldn't agree more.  

Raise the entry fees and reduce the number of cashing spots.  As discussed in a post earlier in the week, guys outside of the top 10 are not making much of a living at all.

More thoughts here:  http://www.gotrevs.com/node/38
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tenpin477

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 02:11:26 PM »
Yes, theres no reason last place in the round of 64 should make a profit lol.
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Platypus22

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2008, 02:38:28 PM »
pretty routine for only the top 10% of a poker tourney to make any money at all. And the bottom piad place is usually only 1 to 2 times their buyin.
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J_L_B

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2008, 08:19:50 PM »
The PBA could learn a thing or two from poker.

1) Footage of "how they got there" - Make the qualifying and match play rounds part of the telecast. Build the steam by showing how players earned their way to the show.

2) Cashing Ratios - 1 in 10 cashing ratio or something similar. Most competitive bowlers are too used to getting 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 cashing ratios and the competitive spirit is washed away because there is no striving to get better when everyone is just there to "cash" and not to "win"

3) Big Stakes Bowling - Have a tournament where the entry fee is $10K and see who shows up. See who the big players are instead of pimping out Pro Bowling to 450 ams who can afford $500 and average 140.

4) Huge First Place Prize - Part of bowling's problem is its marketability. If you had two guys battling for $500K, I guarantee people who aren't bowlers are gunna want to watch, just to see who wins the dough. It works for game shows and poker, it can work for bowling.

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mumzie

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 11:04:14 PM »
That would be really nice if that could happen.
How many entries do the big poker tourneys get? The PTQs average 90 something - add that to the 55 or so exempt players, that's 144 per tournament.
At an entry fee of $10K, that's $1.4 million a week. Sounds like a High roller to me... Not a TOUR.
and how many poker tournaments are there a year?
and of those, how many of the pro players play all the tournaments?
and how many of the pro players are sponsored with big bucks? If the logos they're wearing mean anything - most of 'em.




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Krakken

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 11:33:01 AM »
quote:
I likey.  I for one could not possibly bowl that many games which is why I put bowling at least pro bowling in the athlete section.  I also play poker and love to play against the pros because they have problems playing against donks that don't necessarily play according to the book


And the pro poker players hate it, especially in the WSOP Main Event.  

The pro bowlers would hate it because a lot of your score on a PBA, or Sport shot depends on how well the people on your pair break the lanes down.  You put Joe Schmos on the pair with PBA guys and they are screwing the shot all to hell and costing the pro his livleyhood, and all hell will break loose.

The guys in the TQR have to deal with it because they haven't earned their way to an exemption yet, but do it every week to Pete Weber, Tommy Jones, Chris Barnes, and it iwll go south in a hurry.
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shelley

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 02:43:22 PM »
I believe the "luck" factor is what we call "match play".  You wanna get rid of the luck, go back to round robin like the DW and US Open.  You cannot simultaneously have the cream rise to the top and have these underdog wild cards who get lucky.

How many times has the top seed in a stepladder finals led by a whole game, where he could basically lose the last game 300-0 and still have a higher pinfall?  How many times has he been beaten in a one-game match on TV?  That's the luck factor.

SH
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jd1319

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2008, 03:28:44 PM »
Pete Weber use to do it every week, it's the young guns who would face a learning curve.

As far as money increasing viewership, I think a lot more than that is needed.  There are a lot more poker players than bowlers out there, and thats where the rating comes from.  Even when the PBA was on ABC, it wasn't people watching because of the money (in those days, the money was much more significant in value compared to todays), it was the bowlers wanting to watch the best.  

There was also a clear distinction between the pros and the house hacks.  Back then, anybody who averaged 200 was truly a good bowler.  Anybody who averaged 210 was definately someone who could compete on tour.  Fast forward to today, where soft lane conditions and juiced balls make the 200 average mean nothing, the 220 average corralates to the 190 average of old, and 300 games are a joke.  Soft lane conditions and high tech bowling balls have destroyed the mystique of the pros being truly the best.  You go into most houses, and many of the guys believe they could compete with the pros.  

If you want to tour to be respected, you have to convince the masses that they are truly the best.  The lack of money in prize funds doesn't help, but the lack of respect for the pros is the biggest issue.
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tenpin477

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2008, 10:00:26 PM »
I completely agree. People find out i average 200 and they think theyre gonna see me on ESPN soon. Most people outside of the bowling world don't understand what it takes to be a professional.
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Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: comparing bowling and poker
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2008, 10:05:19 PM »
I don't know if I am in the minority here, but I enjoyed watching the women's series more than the men.
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