Author Topic: Do we really need the PBA? (Read 2620 times)

srlunatic · « **on:** April 14, 2008, 07:49:44 AM »

Is the PBA something we need to advance the cause of bowling? There is no professional bowling here in Europe yet bowling is definitely growing and the European Bowling Tour has done quite well here without being a professional organization.

So my question is....do we really need the PBA?

*this question may or may not reflect my views on the subject*
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When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. â€” That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, â€”

Krakken · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2008, 10:27:05 AM »

Too many options on how to spend your money these days for bowling to survive much longer.

I have had some of the same centers around here talk about no more leagues, they say bigger pain than they are worth.

Maybe the PBA should do what a lot of companies are doing right now, and look at ways to lower their overhead costs so they can pour more money into the prize funds?

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2008, 11:16:06 AM »

quote:
It might become moot unless they get better sponsorship.

I see a parallel situation in my local house. Our center management now believes they can survive without leagues. They believe leagues are an unnecessary pain in the rear, that they can make more money with nothing but open bowling. Leagues might disappear altogether by next fall. If that happens, will they make it? Who knows. The average open bowler has probably never watched a PBA tournament and couldn't care less. If a center can thrive without leagues, then I'd say bowling can do the same without a PBA.

But I don't think either is true.

Your center is in for a rather rude awakening. Most centers, unless they have a great location and tremendous walk in traffic, find that gross profits decline as they eliminate league while per unit profits go up. That means that they make more money on a bowler by bowler basis, but less total money. In most cases, this leads to more or less dramatic cutbacks in hours and staffing, leading to poorer service, reducing the "event" traffic and further reducing overall profitability. It is an accountant's view of the world -- and with the subprime crisis, you can see where that gets you.

As to the PBA, it is dying. It has better numbers than hockey, but can't sell itself. It will be gone very soon. And it will hurt the game.
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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

Krakken · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2008, 12:50:41 PM »

quote:
quote:
It might become moot unless they get better sponsorship.

I see a parallel situation in my local house. Our center management now believes they can survive without leagues. They believe leagues are an unnecessary pain in the rear, that they can make more money with nothing but open bowling. Leagues might disappear altogether by next fall. If that happens, will they make it? Who knows. The average open bowler has probably never watched a PBA tournament and couldn't care less. If a center can thrive without leagues, then I'd say bowling can do the same without a PBA.

But I don't think either is true.

Your center is in for a rather rude awakening. Most centers, unless they have a great location and tremendous walk in traffic, find that gross profits decline as they eliminate league while per unit profits go up. That means that they make more money on a bowler by bowler basis, but less total money. In most cases, this leads to more or less dramatic cutbacks in hours and staffing, leading to poorer service, reducing the "event" traffic and further reducing overall profitability. It is an accountant's view of the world -- and with the subprime crisis, you can see where that gets you.

As to the PBA, it is dying. It has better numbers than hockey, but can't sell itself. It will be gone very soon. And it will hurt the game.
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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

Very well said, but I think the centers will do just that, they will cut the hours and the staff. Oil macines won't be needed as much, can be open 3pm-9pm weekdays, and weekends all day.

I don't think there would be a profit either, but I think a few will try.

chitown · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2008, 04:35:35 PM »

quote:
Jorge,

Well the people have voted and they want the NFL and the NBA but not really the PBA. The numbers and the lack of sponsorship may be telling us that.

Would the loss of the PBA really have much effect on bowling in general??
--------------------
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. â€” That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, â€”

I feel that it would effect bowling in the USA! The opposite holds true as well. If the PBA had big payouts each tourney then the interest in the sport would increase. I also feel sponsorship dollars would increase if the payouts were bigger.

Bowling used to be huge back in the 70's and 80's.

Edited on 4/15/2008 4:36 PM

Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2008, 04:58:38 PM »

A bigger pay out might attract more attention, however, where is this money going to come from? You increase the pay out, and more sponsors will jump on board....once again...where is the money going to come from?

The PBA is trying...and I am pretty sure that everything brought up in the post to help, has already been thought of by the powers that be.

Bowling is never going to be Baseball, or Basketball, or Football, or Golf...so to compare them is comparing Pizza to a Lawn Chair....

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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!

Jmiller88 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2008, 05:16:09 PM »

i think they should make it a little more difficult to join the pba. im still a youth bowler, and the averages that you have to obtain to be a pro is ridiculous, they really need to change that. or make it like football and every other sport. have two different divisions "pro" and "semi-pro". no offense to some of these guys that are part of the pba, but when i go to events and see these guys averaging 160 for 6 games it makes one wonder how they got in.

Gazoo · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2008, 08:50:34 AM »

quote:
while we may or may not need the pba the bowling world does need an elite level for elite players.

PBA - Yes
National Tour - NO
Eventually the "elite level for elite players" will be at the regional level and where up and comers will still strive to get to and compete against the best. I'm afraid the the National Tour will go the way of the ladies tour and only have a couple of mega events each year.

Edited on 4/17/2008 8:52 AM

DOconTEX · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2008, 02:43:33 PM »

quote:

Very well said, but I think the centers will do just that, they will cut the hours and the staff. Oil macines won't be needed as much, can be open 3pm-9pm weekdays, and weekends all day.

I don't think there would be a profit either, but I think a few will try.

I experienced this a year or so ago. Friend asked me to help him with his game so we went after work one Friday. An AMF "FunFest" now known as 300 Bowl. There are a number of these in the DFW area, also operating as Main Event Bowling.

It has games, pool, finger food restaurant and is set up for catered parties, like corporate outings. Several outings were going on at the time. In a private room with 8 lanes that is available for parties, there were videos playing, loud music and lots of young (teen, college age) kids.

I was accommodating my friend, so we got a lane in the party room. The kids were all using 8 to 12 pound house balls "glow balls". I used my Blue Dot spare ball. Ball hooked off the lane. There was NO oil. Kids didn't care, videos were great, lots of flashing lights, music was loud.

I am afraid that is the future of bowling.

myrddin97 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2008, 03:31:27 PM »

I'm willing to bet there will be more and more establishments like that because there is a market for it. But I think it's a limited market. There use to be a place about 20-25 minutes from St Louis that tried that. No leagues and I think I remember they had a jewelery store rather than a pro shop. It was in a very high traffic area, but still failed to stay open. As I briefly understand it, the ownership had other issues, but still . . . . Bowling centers are going to have to cater more than just the "traditional bowler" to survive, but that doesn't mean the successful ones will ignore them (us) completely. It will probably be a balance between the traditional and open bowler that will be different for almost every center based on their location and the makeup of surrounding population.

quote:

I experienced this a year or so ago. Friend asked me to help him with his game so we went after work one Friday. An AMF "FunFest" now known as 300 Bowl. There are a number of these in the DFW area, also operating as Main Event Bowling.

It has games, pool, finger food restaurant and is set up for catered parties, like corporate outings. Several outings were going on at the time. In a private room with 8 lanes that is available for parties, there were videos playing, loud music and lots of young (teen, college age) kids.

I was accommodating my friend, so we got a lane in the party room. The kids were all using 8 to 12 pound house balls "glow balls". I used my Blue Dot spare ball. Ball hooked off the lane. There was NO oil. Kids didn't care, videos were great, lots of flashing lights, music was loud.

I am afraid that is the future of bowling.

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so.
- Robert Orben

Monster Pike · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2008, 03:56:44 PM »

A brand New Brunswick XL just opened up about 10 miles from my house. The back half is 20 lanes on one side for party's & cosmic bowling. 18 on the other side for open bowling. The open bowling has couches for seating. The party side has the regular type seating. The front half has a huge game room & a laser tag room with a small prize store from the coupons won during the games. On the other side are the rooms for presents & cake for the party's & a small cafe. The front has a pretty decent size bar w/a huge screen tv. Bowling there is expensive & looks to be catering to the cosmic & open bowling type customers. Now things could change if they don't think it will work. But from what I saw on Saturday when my daughter attended a party there, the place was packed at least for bowling & partys. There isn't even a pro shop there.
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"The last time I saw a face like that, it had a hook in it's mouth." Rodney Dangerfield

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #26 on:** April 18, 2008, 10:55:56 AM »

quote:
A brand New Brunswick XL just opened up about 10 miles from my house. The back half is 20 lanes on one side for party's & cosmic bowling. 18 on the other side for open bowling. The open bowling has couches for seating. The party side has the regular type seating. The front half has a huge game room & a laser tag room with a small prize store from the coupons won during the games. On the other side are the rooms for presents & cake for the party's & a small cafe. The front has a pretty decent size bar w/a huge screen tv. Bowling there is expensive & looks to be catering to the cosmic & open bowling type customers. Now things could change if they don't think it will work. But from what I saw on Saturday when my daughter attended a party there, the place was packed at least for bowling & partys. There isn't even a pro shop there.
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"The last time I saw a face like that, it had a hook in it's mouth." Rodney Dangerfield

There are a number of places like this across the country. Generally they have good runs for about 3-5 years and then the business slows perceptibly. They begin to lose money and a large percentage absolutely leak cash, even though the accountants say they are doing well on a per unit basis. Places like this all over the country exist. Few survive over more than one full business cycle. But the owners/managers see higher per unit profits and think "wow"...except there is now more competition for "events" than ever and more places have decided to compete for that business.

Put a Chuck E. Cheese or D&P in the area. Bye bye business.
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"I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a disgrace, two or more can be called a law firm, and three or more can be called CONGRESS."

stormfanken · « **Reply #27 on:** April 18, 2008, 11:19:03 AM »

I work in a bowling alley here in the st louis area and have to say that we would go out of business without the leagues. How have leagues become a bigger pain than they are worth. They are guaranteed weekly income.

quote:
Too many options on how to spend your money these days for bowling to survive much longer.

I have had some of the same centers around here talk about no more leagues, they say bigger pain than they are worth.

Maybe the PBA should do what a lot of companies are doing right now, and look at ways to lower their overhead costs so they can pour more money into the prize funds?

stormfanken · « **Reply #28 on:** April 18, 2008, 11:22:36 AM »

I am from the St. Louis area also. Are you referring to the place in O'Fallon IL that I believe was named Fat Cats ?? That is a shame that place didnt make it. It was a beautiful center. The same with the place called Lucky Strike lanes that was in the St. Louis Mills shopping Center. (Not the old Lucky Strike in Hazelwood that was open for years.) Wasnt that only open about a year?

quote:
I'm willing to bet there will be more and more establishments like that because there is a market for it. But I think it's a limited market. There use to be a place about 20-25 minutes from St Louis that tried that. No leagues and I think I remember they had a jewelery store rather than a pro shop. It was in a very high traffic area, but still failed to stay open. As I briefly understand it, the ownership had other issues, but still . . . . Bowling centers are going to have to cater more than just the "traditional bowler" to survive, but that doesn't mean the successful ones will ignore them (us) completely. It will probably be a balance between the traditional and open bowler that will be different for almost every center based on their location and the makeup of surrounding population.

quote:

I experienced this a year or so ago. Friend asked me to help him with his game so we went after work one Friday. An AMF "FunFest" now known as 300 Bowl. There are a number of these in the DFW area, also operating as Main Event Bowling.

It has games, pool, finger food restaurant and is set up for catered parties, like corporate outings. Several outings were going on at the time. In a private room with 8 lanes that is available for parties, there were videos playing, loud music and lots of young (teen, college age) kids.

I was accommodating my friend, so we got a lane in the party room. The kids were all using 8 to 12 pound house balls "glow balls". I used my Blue Dot spare ball. Ball hooked off the lane. There was NO oil. Kids didn't care, videos were great, lots of flashing lights, music was loud.

I am afraid that is the future of bowling.

--------------------
To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so.
- Robert Orben

CoachJim · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2008, 11:58:54 AM »

I wouldn't have gotten the jones to bowl if bowling wasn't on TV, my parents never took me anyplace like that and would have never thought of it if I didn't suggest going for my birthday. I watched the PBA for as long as I can remember, I would have a hard time believing that I am the only one that was inspired to bowl from watching it on TV.

Not to mention, that back in the day there weren't any coaches out there and the only way I had to improve my game was watching those that knew how to bowl on TV and copy them as best I could.

myrddin97 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 18, 2008, 02:28:49 PM »

quote:
I am from the St. Louis area also. Are you referring to the place in O'Fallon IL that I believe was named Fat Cats ?? That is a shame that place didnt make it. It was a beautiful center. The same with the place called Lucky Strike lanes that was in the St. Louis Mills shopping Center. (Not the old Lucky Strike in Hazelwood that was open for years.) Wasnt that only open about a year?

Yeah, I was talking about Fat Cats, and I think at some point Cat City, though I may be making that up. The problem with Fat Cats I think had a lot to do with the owner. When you don't have a pair enough to fire a guy in person and have to do it over the phone (a friend of mine who's been in the buisness 20+ years and owned a fairly successful center for the majority of that time) you're probably going to have other issues. I think the owner came from a tech background and was good and successful at that and decided to try to open a bowling center. I think he even designed the scoring system himself. I'm not sure, but I think the building may still be there with all the equipment and lanes, but the land is so valuable and the building/equipment probably needs so much work, it would be espically hard to get it in order at a decent price.
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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so.
- Robert Orben

Author Topic: Do we really need the PBA? (Read 2620 times)

srlunatic

Do we really need the PBA?

Krakken

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Phillip Marlowe

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Krakken

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

chitown

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Spider Ball Bowler

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Jmiller88

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Gazoo

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

DOconTEX

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

myrddin97

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Monster Pike

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

Phillip Marlowe

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

stormfanken

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

stormfanken

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

CoachJim

Re: Do we really need the PBA?

myrddin97

Re: Do we really need the PBA?