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Author Topic: High Stakes Bowling!  (Read 4419 times)

Platypus22

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High Stakes Bowling!
« on: February 25, 2008, 11:03:37 AM »
The PBA could really pump up the sport by taking a look at poker. A lot of people started watching televised poker partially because of the hole-card camera (so you can see what the players have) BUT also because it was interesting to watch someone play a game for big wads of cash. The average Joe can play poker, just like the average Joe can roll a bowling ball. But people watch poker in huge numbers, and not bowling.

What if the PBA added some high buy-in games? Wouldn't it be fun to watch a game where the players all had to fork out like 5 grand to roll the ball? The PBA is hoping to get big prize pools by going after sposorships. Fine. But that's obviously not working. And that's not even mentioning that the average Joe doesn't get real excited that some dude is gonna win $600 from Dennys because he threw 6 in a row. Now, if WRW is bowling Norm Duke in the finals for a giant chunk of money.....wow.

Hey PBA....Maybe try something new? Isn't there a saying about Insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
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Necromancer

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 09:27:24 PM »
quote:
The PBA could really pump up the sport by taking a look at poker. A lot of people started watching televised poker partially because of the hole-card camera (so you can see what the players have) BUT also because it was interesting to watch someone play a game for big wads of cash. The average Joe can play poker, just like the average Joe can roll a bowling ball. But people watch poker in huge numbers, and not bowling.

What if the PBA added some high buy-in games? Wouldn't it be fun to watch a game where the players all had to fork out like 5 grand to roll the ball? The PBA is hoping to get big prize pools by going after sposorships. Fine. But that's obviously not working. And that's not even mentioning that the average Joe doesn't get real excited that some dude is gonna win $600 from Dennys because he threw 6 in a row. Now, if WRW is bowling Norm Duke in the finals for a giant chunk of money.....wow.

Hey PBA....Maybe try something new? Isn't there a saying about Insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
--------------------
Bowling and Poker degenerate
 ___
{o,o}
__)
-"-"-
O RLY?



I'd agree and like the idea.  However, it works with poker and golf because:

1) Poker players don't respect money at all.  Most of them in the high stakes tournaments are rich.  Actually all.  They have no value of a dollar.  Similar idea with pro golfers.  Same can't be said with bowlers.
2) It would work to attract athletes from other sports to get the quick 'fix' or quick 'payday'.  It would drive out the legit pros and turn it into a get rich quick thing, similar to the WSOP is now.  The WSOP shows who wins and all but never shows the 90%+ that wind up losing their $10,000 entry fee.
3) Perhaps something like $100/frame would be more realistic but I don't think many pros have that type of cash except for the elite bowlers on the money list.
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jbruno6

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 09:34:12 PM »
TV poker and golf work because people want to watch poker and golf.  They DON'T want to watch bowling.  It's pretty simple.
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Uncle Crusty

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 10:28:02 PM »
quote:
TV poker and golf work because people want to watch poker and golf.  They DON'T want to watch bowling.  It's pretty simple.


I disagree to an extent. Golf can be boring to watch, especially when El Tigre wins every tournament. The guy has mad skills, but it's hard to watch when you know one guy has a 75% chance of winning just by entering. That being said, tons of people watch golf on TV, myself included.

Poker is where I tend to disagree. People don't tune into poker to check out an awesome display of athletic prowess, they tune in solely to watch the money. Don't try and tell me poker ratings would be through the roof if these guys were playing $5/$10 ring games or something. Obviously not. So, if the prize money for bowling were to be elevated significantly, not only would people be more inclined to watch just to see a quarter million riding on one frame, but it would make a high stakes bowling concept more feasible since guys could bankroll $100 a frame or whatever without passing on groceries for the week.

I guess my point is it's not so much that people don't want to watch bowling, it's that they don't want to watch when the prize money is so low. If you up the stakes, you up the ratings and begin to venture into the realm of non-bowler viewers. Pretty simple. And until you up the stakes, no bowler could finance a high stakes match. Define Catch-22...
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jbruno6

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 04:48:01 AM »
One of the reasons the prize money is low is because nobody is watching.  If alot of people watched it, advertisers would would pay to put their product in front of us.  You happen to think golf is boring, but not the millions that watch on TV, and also pay for tickets to walk around following these golfers.  It's very sad, I will always watch, so they have me, but this is a bowling website.  A hundred or so watch on here, but what is that?  There is no desire for people to watch bowling, therefore no real money.

My idea was a pari-mutuel setup.  The jai-alai arenas are converted into bowling alleys in the offseason.  You can bet any of the 8 bowlers for that match.  There are odds, exactas, triples, etc.  Of course there will be a hint of corruption, but isn't ther in horse racing, jai-alai?  The bowlers get a percentage of the handle.   Craziness!
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www.jeterisanoverratedplayer.blogspot.com
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Pinbuster

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 06:07:02 AM »
This will not work because bowling is much more skills based than poker.

Catch a lucky streak and about any poker player can beat a professional but unless you put out pure china amateurs know by and large in a longer format they will lose to a professional. They will probably lose on china.

The old high roller used to be the same thing. $1100 entry to bowl single game matches but even the high roller banned PBA players and former champions in order for the ordinary JoeBowler to think he had a chance.

But after a while the ranks of the professional “Amateur” rise and they end up winning the majority of the tournaments. As it became apparent such skilled players existed these tournaments started to lose entries and had to lower entry fees and start limiting prior winners.
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Pinbuster

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 06:08:42 AM »
Gambling backing never works in these environments because the fix is always in play.

Eventual bribe money becomes larger than the real prize money.

It is the reason all major professional sports distance themselves from gambling.
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gfh2a

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 06:19:41 AM »
People watch golf and poker because we want to be these people.  In poker you can catch fire and win lots of money. As as golfers go you can win my lifetime wages in one tournament.  I'm and avid golfer so I know how hard some of the shots they pull off are.  I would like to do both of those but I wouldn't want to bowl for my living.  I can't remember who it was but they have been on your for ten years and they hadn't made as much as I have in the same time period.

Trick shot pool players make more per tournament than bowlers.

George
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Edited on 2/26/2008 7:20 AM
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Platypus22

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 10:24:49 AM »
(copied from my reply to the "end of the PBA" post)

I still believe a lot of the problems could be solved by bigger buy-ins and less restrictions. Think about a bowling tourney where players all pay $1000 to $5000 to play. Local PBA Experience leagues could even run satelite tourneys, or people could directly buy in to the event if they wanted. You'd get huge fields and big prize pools and you won't need sponsors to donate huge wads of cash. Let the people find their own sponsors.

I can guarantee you there are a lot of people who would enjoy watching bowling a lot more if there was a lot more money on the line. Since the goal is to build a bigger prize pool, there should be no limitations put on the player because of their qualifications.

The PGA has a lot of required qualifications, but that's different. Mostly, because they don't need the money. lol. Buick and Nike are more than happy to shell out huge checks. But since that's not happening in bowling, perhaps they should try something new.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

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BrianCRX90

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2008, 06:42:59 PM »
I'd like proof...

Proof that an entire season of PGA Golf ratings are higher then a season of PBA bowling. Not one tournament like the Masters Augusta, I mean the whole season. I know a LOT of people that don't even bowl, some that do that watch the PBA every weekend. The opposite side of the spectrum for the PGA. I would say even golf is going downhill compared to what it used to be interest wise. Going to a Golf tournament is fun to watch, just like a PBA tournament. But you can't tell me for the most part everyone is watching every golf tournament on tv. It's a poor tv sport to watch on tv. Just like car racing and hockey.
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michelle

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Re: High Stakes Bowling!
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 08:23:15 AM »
quote:

I'd agree and like the idea.  However, it works with poker and golf because:

1) Poker players don't respect money at all.  Most of them in the high stakes tournaments are rich.  Actually all.  They have no value of a dollar.  Similar idea with pro golfers.  Same can't be said with bowlers.


A lot of the HSP players are not on their own money.  There are some, like Farha,  who are admittedly wealthy through other means and can afford to play like complete donks in NLHE (I would not want to play Sammy in PLO).  But the reality is that many hemoraged their own money long ago and now do the same with other people's money...not unlike some pot bowlers.  

Is it a case of not respecting money?  No.  But it is a case of being in situations where if you win, great and if not, it isn't the end of the world.  Whether you are talking about poker or bowling, the scared money is going to leave the pocket quickly, never to return.  Once the money has been turned into chips, they are just chips.  Same holds true whether you are playing nickel-dime online, $1-2 live or $300-600 live...

quote:
2) It would work to attract athletes from other sports to get the quick 'fix' or quick 'payday'.  It would drive out the legit pros and turn it into a get rich quick thing, similar to the WSOP is now.  The WSOP shows who wins and all but never shows the 90%+ that wind up losing their $10,000 entry fee.


It would alter the player pool without a doubt...the reality is that not everyone is up for sprints which is why the newer PBA format tended to create a different look than when you had the 24-game match play that followed the qualifying.  

While the WSOP events don't show all competitors, do not be deluded into thinking that everyone there payed $10K to get into the main event...there are a lot of satellite entrants.  Same thing holds true with the Circuit events and also the WPT.  

quote:
3) Perhaps something like $100/frame would be more realistic but I don't think many pros have that type of cash except for the elite bowlers on the money list.


You might be surprised...especially since there are many who are not strictly on their own money.  Lots of backers have deep pockets...and in a situation where there is a fixed amount per frame, you would see a lot of the same benjamins just changing hands back and forth at the end of each match, not unlike the money on HSP.
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