Post by: chitown on February 26, 2009, 11:58:34 PM
Take a look at Wes Mallot eyes when he releases the ball. He's looking straight down and the foul line. I was watching a match on you tube and Mallot says he looks at the break point then draws a mental line back to the foul line and from that point its about feel. Basically he's an area bowler.
I wonder how many of the PBA national tour guys are "area" type bowlers?
Edited on 2/28/2009 9:35 AM
Post by: urbanshaft on February 27, 2009, 12:29:08 PM
Post by: cheech on February 27, 2009, 12:36:29 PM
i want to play 20 at the foul line and 8 at the break point. i line up so i slide on 27. that means as long as i slide on 27 i will set the ball down on 20. however much i pivot or open up when i line up will dictate how much i swing the ball. to swing out to 8 i will have to pivot 4 boards when lining up. if i walk straight and stay opened up like when i lined up i will always set the ball down on 20 and swing it out to 8. its the laws of physics. it doesnt matter where you look, you could look at board 36 but as long as its a free swing and you throw a good shot you will hit whatever target you lined up for.
i think a lot of guys on tour a break point bowlers meaning that they only target where their ball's BP is. they could give a crap where it is at the arrows but as long as it makes it to the correct BP it will hit the pocket.
sorry for the long post
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Post by: J_w73 on February 27, 2009, 01:52:02 PM
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Walking E on February 27, 2009, 02:20:06 PM
In a way, I now feel vindicated that my original way of targeting and throwing the ball can be successful and shouldn't be messed with if it works.
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Post by: chitown on February 27, 2009, 02:24:20 PM
quote:
I was at the TOC finals sitting in front of the bowlers and although it is hard to be sure it looked like maybe only 1 (Scroggins) of them was looking at the arrows at release. It looked like Allen and Page were looking way down the lane... and Mallot at his feet like said before.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
I always thought Allen was a target bowler?
Edited on 2/27/2009 3:26 PM
Edited on 2/27/2009 3:27 PM
Post by: chitown on February 27, 2009, 04:43:21 PM
quote:
There isn't a single correct way to play this game. An example that's been going around right now that everybody at my home center is obsessed with, the working the inside of the ball comment that Randy P harps on. Have you every watched Walter Ray throw a ball, it's no where near the inside of the ball....this guy is pretty good. I watched a video slow mo of his release the other day, vs barns and Jones. Walter nowhere near the inside of the ball.
Targeting, swing planes, working the inside..is different for each and every type of player. Power players do something different than non power players etc..etc.
There is alot of good information that's been miss fed to the bowlers right now by guys.
I feel Randy Peterson does a pretty good job on the telecasts. However, that was a stupid comment he made. If you look at vid of Earl Anthony you will see that his hand is on the outside of the ball during release.
I also agree that a text book way of doing things isn't always the best way. In fact, a lot of the PBA players are far from text book. Look at Patrick Allen's balance at the line. He's got horrible balance at the line yet he's a great bowler. WRW is far from text book and we all know how good he is.
Post by: J_w73 on February 27, 2009, 05:09:40 PM
you aren't actually staying on the inside of the ball the whole time...
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on February 27, 2009, 05:11:28 PM
quote:quote:
I was at the TOC finals sitting in front of the bowlers and although it is hard to be sure it looked like maybe only 1 (Scroggins) of them was looking at the arrows at release. It looked like Allen and Page were looking way down the lane... and Mallot at his feet like said before.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
I always thought Allen was a target bowler?
Edited on 2/27/2009 3:26 PM
Edited on 2/27/2009 3:27 PM
He may be.. that is why I said it is hard to tell.. from looking at where I thought his eyes would be looking it looked like he would be about 5 to 10 feet beyond the arrows.. but yes.. he definately looked alot less down lane than page...so you may be correct.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 2/27/2009 6:12 PM
Post by: J_w73 on February 27, 2009, 05:18:05 PM
quote:quote:
There isn't a single correct way to play this game. An example that's been going around right now that everybody at my home center is obsessed with, the working the inside of the ball comment that Randy P harps on. Have you every watched Walter Ray throw a ball, it's no where near the inside of the ball....this guy is pretty good. I watched a video slow mo of his release the other day, vs barns and Jones. Walter nowhere near the inside of the ball.
Targeting, swing planes, working the inside..is different for each and every type of player. Power players do something different than non power players etc..etc.
There is alot of good information that's been miss fed to the bowlers right now by guys.
I feel Randy Peterson does a pretty good job on the telecasts. However, that was a stupid comment he made. If you look at vid of Earl Anthony you will see that his hand is on the outside of the ball during release.
I also agree that a text book way of doing things isn't always the best way. In fact, a lot of the PBA players are far from text book. Look at Patrick Allen's balance at the line. He's got horrible balance at the line yet he's a great bowler. WRW is far from text book and we all know how good he is.
I agree about many pros not being textbook. I was trying to get rid of a 4 board drift that I developed.. one.. because I didn't have it before... and two.. drifting is bad and not textbook.. .. I went to the reno pro am and watching the pro's bowl made me feel ok about my 4 board drift.. I don't think a one of them slip where they started and some had a 15 and 20 board drift...
The tequniques I saw were all far from textbook..
no matter how "messed" up your game is...all that matters is that you can repeat the same F'd up motions the same each and everytime.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 2/27/2009 6:18 PM
Post by: chitown on February 27, 2009, 08:20:16 PM
quote:
I agree about many pros not being textbook. I was trying to get rid of a 4 board drift that I developed.. one.. because I didn't have it before... and two.. drifting is bad and not textbook.. .. I went to the reno pro am and watching the pro's bowl made me feel ok about my 4 board drift.. I don't think a one of them slip where they started and some had a 15 and 20 board drift...
The tequniques I saw were all far from textbook..
no matter how "messed" up your game is...all that matters is that you can repeat the same F'd up motions the same each and everytime
I totally understand teaching bowlers the important fundementals. There are a few current PBA players that have excellent form. PB III would be one of the current players that has excellent form. Earl Anthony and Dave Ozio had great form as well. I sometimes think bowlers try too hard to be text book which messes up their game. As you said, take a look at the PBA players as many of them are far from text book but are very good at repeating shots.
Post by: Russell on February 27, 2009, 09:28:21 PM
quote:
How many of the PBA national tour guys do you think are area bowlers?
Take a look at Wes Mallot eyes when he releases the ball. He's looking straight down and the foul line. I was watching a match on you tube and Mallot says he looks at the break point then draws a mental line back to the foul line and from that point its about feel. Basically he's an area bowler.
I wonder how many of the PBA national tour guys are "area" type bowlers?
I know Wes looks down at the line, but I severely doubt that he doesn't have a specific target down the lane.
I will use golf as an example....golfers look at the ball at impact, but know the line and target they are aiming at.
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Post by: BrianCRX90 on February 28, 2009, 12:11:31 AM
Wes Malott - target
Pete Weber - target
Ronnie Russell - area
Bill O'Neill - area?
Chris Barnes - target
Post by: chitown on February 28, 2009, 08:40:09 AM
quote:
How about the guys on the show Sunday?
Wes Malott - target
Pete Weber - target
Ronnie Russell - area
Bill O'Neill - area?
Chris Barnes - target
Chris Barnes looks at a target and is not an area bowler. I'm not sure about PDW, Russell or O'Neill.
We know that Wes draws an imaginary line from the break point to the foul line and goes by feel at the point of release.
I say do what ever works. I personally use the arrows as a target.
Post by: backswing_aplenty on March 01, 2009, 05:04:52 PM
Regardless of where you are looking your target should be the breakpoint down the lane. If all you are trying to hit is a board near the arrows, you might miss your spot down the lane and you will never strike. Getting to the breakpoint correctly is much more important than hitting a mark at the arrows all day. On most patterns your trajectory through the front will change as the games go on but your breakpoint will stay the same.
I can hit 10 board from anywhere on the lane, sliding 40 to 10 and into the right ditch, sliding on 2 to 10 into the left ditch. Hitting my breakpoint correctly is what I'm focusing on, the arrows are to line up my swing direction. Besides I'm about 20mph off my hand, I have a hard time picking the ball up before the arrows anyway.
Second, all PBA bowlers are looking for the correct area to play on the lanes. Their moves and equipment choices are for the sole purpose of finding the largest miss room on the lane. Yes they are more accurate than us, but their accuracy is a result of proper mechanics they can repeat, and it's these mechanics that produce miss room. Some are more technical and numbers oriented than others who feel it. So even though they are trying to hit a "target" their goal is to be in the proper "area" to strike.
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Post by: r534me on March 02, 2009, 09:15:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjIPW4gRsmQ
Post by: BrianCRX90 on March 02, 2009, 04:05:31 PM
The problem I have ran into area which is why I went back to arrows is when the lane is tight down lane I can't get the ball to stop "drifting" right of 10 nor can I get it close to 15 without yanking it to the left hitting 17.
I actually loved using the dots after the foul line/before the arrows however gave up when I bowled a sweeper at a old wood house that is dimly litted and couldn't see the dots until my follow through.
I also have tried using two marks at a time...arrows to breakpoint but then got to the point I couldn't hit either even though I've shot some honor scores using this stratagy.
Also have tried pin spotting like Dennis Horan and that was a disaster. So I'm back to where I started when I was a kid, using the arrows but this time I have more understanding about the game.
If I could find a way of using speed control at the foul line, I would use the Wes targeting system. Works great for him. It's hard to focus that close to me. Though in times past if I found the right line I can strike all day if I have a good ball reaction because it is so easy to hit. Then again Brian Kretzer does the same thing and he will have a great reaction some days and a very poor one other days. If anyonw has any tips playing the foul line dots I'm listening.
Post by: Jay on March 04, 2009, 11:08:05 PM
I walk in the direction of my target line so I don't end up on the same board I start on, and I think my finish position(relative to where I start) changes based on my launch angle. Will targetting at the foul line work for me?
Post by: chitown on March 06, 2009, 03:08:18 PM
quote:
When looking at the foul line, is the bowler just looking at the line itself or a certain target? If the latter, is the target where you slide or your laydown point?
I walk in the direction of my target line so I don't end up on the same board I start on, and I think my finish position(relative to where I start) changes based on my launch angle. Will targetting at the foul line work for me?
A bowler like Malott isn't looking at a target at all. He looks at the break point then draws an imaginary line back to the foul line then release the ball by feel. When he's at the foul line he's not looking at anything in particular. I know many bowlers that do this. Some are very good at it.
I personally draw an imginary line from the break point to the arrows and then just target the arrows. On tough patterns it's all about break point management. Experiment until you find something that works even if it's not text book. At least that's my opinion.
Post by: Jay on March 06, 2009, 11:05:04 PM
P.S. I asked a question maybe you could answer in the drilling forum in "flare separation."
Post by: strikealot on March 06, 2009, 11:34:58 PM
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