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Author Topic: Lefty PTQ qualifying  (Read 3143 times)

LuckyLefty

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Lefty PTQ qualifying
« on: February 20, 2006, 01:27:22 AM »
In relation to the discussion about lefty righty issues.

Two years of PTQ qualifying school and no lefty has come close to qualifying in the top 10 through the school.

I predict there will never be a lefty qualify for the pro tour via the PTQ qualifying school.  NEVER.

I am convinced that some of the great champions of today would NOT be able to get in to the top 10.

The combination of a difficult shot that never opens up on the left...or barely starts to open up at the end of each block coupled with the righty shot opening up after 3 games makes it just too much to overcome despite the obvious skills of some of the lefties.  (I believe some of the greats from above can finish in the top 20 but top 10 ?????)

What will the tour be like when the current crop of lefties ages and retires.
Patrick Allen...Jason Couch and Parker...will it be an all righty tour!?

Here are some of the fine lefties who are not on tour and clearly are very fine bowlers.

Ricky Ward, Eric Forkel, Chris Hayden, Richard Wolfe.

Richard Wolfe is probably one of the best pure throwers in the World...can't get on tour.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I think this week again showed that it is a travesty that a Randy Pederson is not on tour either!
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Edited on 2/20/2006 11:05 PM
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Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2006, 09:34:29 AM »
Very good point made.  I am semi dissapointed about the exempt tour now, but if I was on it, I'd think it was a good thing.  

In my opinion, I think everyone should have to qualify.  I check out the stats of nearly every tournie, and sometimes you see someone average 210 and not make any money, but then one of the exempt guys averages in the 190's and gets their automatic $2,000.

I feel the reason of the exemptions is because the PBA wants people to find a favorite bowler, and follow them.  So if their favorite bowler is PBIII he's got a decent shot to make TV more often.  I don't disagree with this reasoning whatsoever.  I only think it becomes a little unfair for the ones who are working their butts off in the qualifying round, only to not finish in the top 4, or be the #1 amateur.

I know that you're talking about the Qualifying where they shoot 9 games on each pattern per day, but I think the regular qualifying rounds should be participated in by everyone.

Just my opinion....ignore as needed.


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LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2006, 01:19:13 PM »
Oh...I'm looking forward to it being on synthetics to prove my point!

I believe they will be farther away this year on synthetics.

Jabroni point well taken.  I understand your point that so far statistically speaking if they were as good as righties 4 should have made it so far out of 20.  0 for 4 is not statistically very relevant.  When we are three years from now and it is 0 for 5 years of tour qualifying or 0 for 10...do you think it will affect the tour?  Say and Parker Bohn starts winding down and Jason Couch has a shoulder or other injury(somethins' got to give don't ya think).

At that point would bowlers start to think
a) lefties aren't as good....
b) maybe this set of patterns is unfair as far as creating a tour.
oh...by the 18 percent rule there should be .18 X 64(exempt spots) = 12 lefties on tour...current total is....?  4(I'm not sure)?

REgards,

Luckylefty

Regards,

Luckylefty


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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2006, 01:37:15 PM »
Jabroni...

Those are unusual statements from a righty(I've frankly NEVER heard one admit to seeing an advantage for righties occassionally).  Let me sit down!  I'm digesting!....

Of course a lefty after every high set must say...."well...you know...it was pretty nice for the old lefty over here"!

I thought you were right on...and I really do acknowledge also...on a nice league blend...it can be very nice to be a lefty!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2006, 01:42:33 PM »
Oh is upcoming synthetic shot on trials to be contested on Anvilane or AMF HPL???

Regards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2006, 03:04:00 PM »
First righthander to ever seem to get this!

Right on!

I'm not trying for it!  But I'd hate to have my livelihood depend on it!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Pinbuster

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2006, 07:45:30 PM »
LuckyLefty – What is your solution?

Do you open up the left? How much is enough to open it up? Would it be fair to the right handed bowlers if the left was opened up from the 1st game and stayed there all day? What if 5 lefties won spots in the PTQ would that be unfair?

Do you simply say the top lefty qualifies? Or the top 2 lefties? What if the best lefty was 50th?

I don’t really have any answers for an exempt tour. I agree that it appears the lefties have a disadvantage at the tour trials thus far.

How about the points list for the PTQ qualifier? Forkel is leading, Moran is close to him so obviously there isn’t a bias against lefties at the PTQ.  

I don’t know about the 18% number most percentages I hear are in the 10% to 13% range. And there are only 57 exempt slots so that would mean 6 to 9 exempt left handers, Patrick Allen, Parker Bohn, Jason Couch, Rick Lawrence, and Mike Scroggins makes 5.

Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 09:22:47 PM »
I think that the only true way to fix it, which is completely not even an option would be to not put any oil at all on the lanes, hand everyone the same plastic ball, drilled the exact same way (besides spans and all that) and let em have a go lol.

That would end the lefty, righty controversy for sure

And if anyone tried to say the lefty's side was easier, would be just plain crazy

Yea I know I am an idiot lol.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2006, 10:31:34 PM »
Oh I don't have a solution!

The tour patterns are tough non blended patterns.

If you blend them out now the advantage goes to the lefty!

It is a a tough dilemma.  Also I believe AMF synthetics I have bowled on are the best surface in bowling!  Next are the newer Brunswick Anvilanes which I believe are a little slower than 5 or 10 years ago anvilanes which were so slick that light volumes of oil had to be put out or most bowlers couldn't hook it!  Creating the always spotty oil anvilane characteristic.

Both the AMF and Newer anvilanes require more oil to hide friction and can thus create a good shot even without a lot of blend.

Just my opinions and I really don't know a ton about application techniques just what i have seen from behind the foul line!

Again the principal applies.

A bad shot put out changes for righties and stays the same for lefties for longer.

A good shot put out changes for righties and stays the same for a longer period of time for lefties!

Match play is the great equalizer as Another stated above!!!!

Also I believe mass bias balls are a great equalizer for lefties to an extent too!  Supplying thru core motion an almost substitute for friction!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I have not been to many qualifying rounds and the few I have been too I forget!  One way to make qualifying fair is to have the 5 lefties on tour or 10 lefties in Tour Trials only have one righty and one lefty on them on all lanes where the lefties will go.  Whether there are enough lanes to make this happen is the question.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

tjj300

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2006, 10:24:42 AM »
quote:

Match play is the great equalizer as Another stated above!!!!



Only if the pattern that is put down for match play is symmetrical .

Edited on 2/21/2006 11:11 AM

mumzie

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2006, 11:17:43 AM »
Ok. Let's put this myth to bed...

I spent some time in Medford talking with a lot of the pros. Jim Tomek, Jr -who is right handed - said that PA was really struggling in the match play there, BECAUSE THE RIGHTIES WERE PLAYING FURTHER LEFT THAN HE WAS!!!

so the righties were messing up the left side - NOT the lefties...

So - unless more lefties can figure it out, there will be some patterns/surfaces that lefties won't be able to succeed on - unless they can hook the ball as much as the righties.


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tjj300

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2006, 11:32:14 AM »
The lefties can play deep, but why would you move to where the righties have stripped all the head oil?

Let's face it, righties are distroying bowling for both sides!  

LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2006, 09:01:14 AM »
Unless Lefties hook it more than righties.

This is a statement that I always find interesting.

It is my observation that this is the thing righties don't get about lefties.

Many of us DO hook it!

However the misconception is that if we are not as deep on the lane that we are not hooking it as much.

Yesterday was having striking problems and a guy was telling me the shot was 4th arrow(he is a righty).  I replied.."Yes...on the right!"

You see that the fact of the matter is there is less friction in the lane surface on the left on both synthetics and wood after some usage of a lane!

My observation is that lefties and righties with equal revs speed and axis rotation typically stand about an arrow apart.  A righty playing 3rd arrow and I'm near second...usually about the same hand as me.  

A righty playing 4th arrow and I'm swinging over the 3rd arrow...about the same hand as me.

If you don't think Jason Couch would be swinging the complete lane if he were a righty...well maybe you are not watching those pesky lefties close at all!

Regards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

TheIronMan

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2006, 01:02:41 PM »
1    T. Jones   199,071.5
   2    M. Scroggins   173,230.2
   3    W. Malott   168,996.0
   4    M. DeVaney   161,298.0
   5    N. Duke   159,359.0
   6    M. Koivuniemi   151,463.5
   7    P. Allen   151,180.0
   8    J. Couch   144,144.0
   9    R. Shafer   143,074.0
   10    R. Smith   137,696.0
3 lefties in top 10 points leaders

1         Mike Scroggins   15   224.38
2         Norm Duke   16   222.85
3         Wes Malott   16   222.67
4         Tommy Jones   15   222.13
5         Michael Machuga   15   221.95
6         Jason Couch   16   221.70
7         Walter Ray Williams Jr   16   221.10
8         Parker Bohn III   16   220.65
9         Robert Smith   16   220.58
10         Patrick Allen   16   220.51
4 lefties in top 10 avgs.

1         Tommy Jones   15   $275,100
2         Mike Scroggins   15   $174,740
3         Norm Duke   16   $130,300
4         Wes Malott   16   $111,670
5         Jason Couch   16   $107,200
6         Ryan Shafer   15   $106,200
7         Patrick Allen   16   $103,945
8         Michael Machuga   15   $82,980
9         Mike Wolfe   16   $82,640
10         Mika Koivuniemi   16   $82,600
3 lefties in top 10 money

2005      Patrick Allen
2004      Mika Koivuniemi
2003      Walter Ray Williams Jr.
2002      * Parker Bohn III
2000      Norm Duke
1999      Parker Bohn III
3 lefties in top 6 POYs

I'd say its been more than fair over the last several years and on the current exempt tour, with only 5 out of 58. All the data I've ever seen shows that 12% of the population is lefthanded. I think most anyone will concede that at least 15% of the bowlers are lefthanded. 9% currently being exempt is not that far out of line in such a small sampling. The truer comparison for fairness of conditions is to take the percentage of total money won by lefties vs the percentage of bowlers (probably not available). I would be willing to wager that its more than 9%. However, its still a small sampling. I feel that they are trying to make it fair and are probably closer now than they have been in a long time.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Lefty PTQ qualifying
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2006, 01:16:30 PM »
I do NOT maintain the protour is unfair once you are on it!  As the need to qualify in the top 5 or 10 does not exist...only top 24 because then it is match play which I believe is fair...particularly with the advent and emergence of assymetric cores....!

I maintain the PTQ is unfair.  As a result within 5 years if I am right there will be no lefties on tour...except for those who come up through regionals.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I also maintain the great bowlers on tour on the left...maybe could NOT make it into the top 10 of PTQ...not because they are not very good...but because  instead the hill they have to climb is so much steeper!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana