Post by: qstick777 on April 11, 2005, 09:46:08 AM
Okay - there is the link to the top 100 earners this season. Honestly, can you guys say that even half of these people can "make a living" by bowling?
I don't know a whole lot about the tour - I guess it runs from Fall through Spring (October through April). I'm not sure how long a tournament runs, but I'm guessing its something like golf, so Thursday-Sunday, then figure in travel time and expenses (hotels, gas, meals, etc).
With #50 on the list making $43k, how reasonable is it to say these people are even surviving?
Where is the money?
I personally think some things need to change to bring more audience to the tour and increase revenue, but I'll save those for another post.
Post by: sdbowler on April 11, 2005, 05:54:38 PM
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BRUNSWICK
Post by: shelley on April 11, 2005, 07:35:40 PM
SH
Post by: BowlerKidR on April 11, 2005, 07:51:54 PM
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"Strike for show, spare for dough"
I LIKE TO BOWL
Im A Hammer Head 100%
Post by: stanski on April 11, 2005, 09:00:50 PM
http://www.pga.com/tournaments/money-leaders/pga_money_leaders.cfm
And they aren't even a third of the way through the season yet!
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stanski
Edited on 4/11/2005 8:54 PM
Post by: bowlitup on April 11, 2005, 09:12:21 PM
quote:
Even with the fact that they have the opportunity to work in the offseason, its still rediculous that they would be forced to. They are the best in the world, they should be rewarded like those in other sports are. Check out golf's earnings after only a few months of play compared to bowlings complete season earnings.
http://www.pga.com/tournaments/money-leaders/pga_money_leaders.cfm
And they aren't even a third of the way through the season yet!
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stanski
Edited on 4/11/2005 8:54 PM
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Ben
VIVA LA NACION!!!
*As I pull out my golf clubs from the garage* "Anyone wanna buy an Absolute Inferno"?????!!!!!
Edited on 4/11/2005 9:07 PM
Edited on 4/11/2005 9:15 PM
Post by: qstick777 on April 11, 2005, 09:56:33 PM
My point being that if a tournament is 4 days, you have to figure the other expenses, not just the prize money earned.
What about hotel costs, gas, travel, food, etc. Then, if you make the show you will probably fly your family out to watch. Unless the tour is picking up those expenses, I imagine they add up pretty quickly.
Its been discussed in another thread that ball contracts aren't really all that lucrative, and was suggested that only those that make TV get paid "the big bucks." It obviously isn't anywhere close to the stuff you see in Nascar (ie: get paid extra for drinking the product on TV, etc), because I don't think I've ever heard a bowler mention a sponsor during an interview.
I honestly thought I would hear somebody thank their ball manufacturer when they win - "Good bowling Tommy, how were the lanes today?" "Thanks, Dave. The lanes were a little tight, but thanks to the great ball from Ebonite I was able to adjust and make some great shots." Does anybody recall anybody ever saying that? Only thing I can recall is BV thanking Storm for supporting the tour, and he was throwing AMF!
Post by: stanski on April 11, 2005, 10:12:27 PM
quote:
I honestly thought I would hear somebody thank their ball manufacturer when they win - "Good bowling Tommy, how were the lanes today?" "Thanks, Dave. The lanes were a little tight, but thanks to the great ball from Ebonite I was able to adjust and make some great shots." Does anybody recall anybody ever saying that? Only thing I can recall is BV thanking Storm for supporting the tour, and he was throwing AMF!
Funny you say that, i remember tommy jones saying "it helps throwing the best ball out on the market right now (referring to big time)"
LoL at bowlitup, does anyone wanna trade a wmb, saw blade, and flash point for a titleist 983k? I'm with you there buddy, I really need to start practicing to see if I can ever get on tour.
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stanski
Post by: sdbowler on April 11, 2005, 10:17:59 PM
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BRUNSWICK
Post by: qstick777 on April 11, 2005, 10:36:15 PM
It looks like there are 21 events (so far). Lets say you are right around 62 (like Randy) and have made $25,000. Lets say you are on the road for 4 days out of the week (just for tourney time, not including travel days). Lets say you get some discount and stay at an "average" hotel (motel) for $50/night. Thats $200 for lodging. Then, you have to eat, so lets be really cheap and say you can eat for $20/day. Thats another $80. So far we are up to $280 for that tournament.
Is there an entry fee for the tour? If so, you gotta add that in. So, for somebody down around 62, you are looking at around $1000/week average. Not bad for doing something you love, but nothing compared to other sports.
Of course you still have to pay taxes, and I don't know if the PBA provides any kind of health benefits.
I don't know how much you can make in the off season with clinics, pro-shop, etc. I don't know too many people that can afford a "regular" bowling coach, let alone coaching lessons from a tour player, and how much more can you make with a pro-shop? I heard that Richard Wolfe had to sell his pro shop to go on tour this year.
I guess if I really have a point its this: A lot of times we see these people on TV and think "that guy is a pro, he must be rich. I wish I could make tons of money bowling." and in reality they aren't and they are struggling just to survive. Somebody mentioned in another post something about Randy yelling at a fan and that he should be happy to make his living bowling and not worry about a disruption from a fan. I guess if you consider that distraction cost Randy a chance to quadruple his earnings (I won't argue whether it should have affected him or not since I still haven't seem the event in its entirety) you can understand his reaction.
Post by: Pinbuster on April 12, 2005, 07:13:07 AM
No health, no retirement, and they pay the full 12% for Social Security because they are self employed.
There probably aren’t more than a dozen guys out there getting more than $12K in endorsement money a year.
Post by: DP3 on April 12, 2005, 08:09:03 AM
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-DP3
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Post by: tonybowls on April 12, 2005, 08:20:45 AM
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 12, 2005, 08:34:51 AM
I think we are talking about bowling and not golf....
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Repetition is everything..
Post by: jd1319 on April 12, 2005, 11:56:51 AM
Post by: bowlitup on April 12, 2005, 12:29:03 PM
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Ben
VIVA LA NACION!!!
Edited on 4/12/2005 12:35 PM
Post by: Strokewiththelefthand on April 12, 2005, 12:48:08 PM
The truth is, our sport is not big enough to give away million dollar purses, atleast not yet. This season paid out the most money and is continuing to pay out with the Road to Riches($200,000 to the winner). With PA making $300,000+, he has the opportunity to win over $500,000. With the new format, it insures that if you stay competitive, then, you will have no problem breaking even. Compare this years money list to last years, and you see that even though the money is the same, the overall figure is better. Parker won $100,000+ and finished 10th.
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I realized that I am a bum! The more I learn the worse I bowl. The faster my feet the more I strike. Why?? I can't tell you why cause I don't know myself. I have learned that you perfect what you do best and be good at what you do. Loft the ball, fast feet, whatever, just enjoy the game and don't complain when you lose. Learn from it and move on.
"I live to bowl but great bowlers bowl to live."-my philosophy.
I have left a pocket 3-9 with a 16lb bowling ball. How'd I do it?????? UHHHHH IOONO
Practice James has yet to step up to tourney James.
Post by: Oskuposer on April 12, 2005, 02:04:49 PM
Posted: 4/11/2005 10:18 PM
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Also remember hearing Couch say the Ebonite ball's hit to hard and then having Angelo say that the Brunswick ones get all 10 though. Or something like that during a match. Please keep in mind that bowling never has and probably never will be a BIG time sport. It is not an offcial sport in the Olympics, but windsurfing or table tennis is. Bowling has always been considered a recreation sport. Until the light is shined differently on the sport that is all it will ever be seen as. It was nice to hear Mr. Bettis say that the bowlers on tour should be considered athletes. Don't know if this makes sense or not but hope it does help a little.
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BRUNSWICK
Actually bowling is an olyimpic sport actually i might b on the jr team if i get really lucky at JOG
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Good bowler use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"
Post by: bass on April 12, 2005, 02:33:22 PM
I bowled professionally for 5 years from 97-02 on the Midwest Regional tour.
Now I hear you talk about bowling and think theres money to be made out there and let me tell you its HARD!!!!!
My cash to entry ratio was around 60% not bad.
The best year I had was in '01 when I cashed in 90% of my tournaments.
After expenses care to guess what my net profit was for the year?????
$50.
This was figuring in mileage,hotels,food, equipment and misc. expenses.
So in '2 some people asked me about going out on the National tour.
I said sure if you can come up with a good enough financial package I'd look at it.
The said how much do you need I looked them all in the eye and said $200K.
They told me I was NUTS.
Then my comeback went something like this;
1) you need at the minimum a 2 year commitment to do it right.
2) I have expenses at home that don't go away(mortgage,car payments,life insurance,health insurance, food and a host of other bills).
3) Lost wages figuring I make(guaranteed from my regular job $40K/yr)
4) loss of my seniority at my job because most employers will not give you a leave of abscense to try this endeavor.
5) being gone and on the road roughly 60% of the time.
6) a new vechicle because your going to need it for all of that travel!!!!!
missing out on seeing my family.
So your comeback is take them with you.
Try taking a 5yr old and infant anywhere longer than 10 minutes away from home and see how your nerves are doing.
Now multiply that by how many miles between tour stops!!!!
You'd finish at the bottom everytime.
Just ask any of the guys that aren't in the top 10-15 in the standings how they're set fininancially.
Edited on 4/13/2005 6:08 PM
Post by: qstick777 on April 13, 2005, 06:01:52 PM
I don't really know if I enjoy the sport that much to endure all that. Don't get me wrong - I love to bowl, and there are plenty of days when I wish I could quit my job and just bowl, but if bowling was my job would I enjoy it the same? Would I want to do it if I knew I could make more money selling used cars, or something else? Maybe these guys do come from wealthy families, or maybe they can't do anything else except bowl?
It just seems strange to me that people can ride skateboards, or golf, and something else and make millions, while the top bowlers in the world are making so little.
I know it is all about the fan base and what the market will bear, and its the same with pro soccer or the wnba - you have people doing something they love and making $60k a year, while you have nfl and mlb players making multi-million a year playing a similar sport.
I guess it really has to do with perception of the sport (game). I know sometimes I watch the PBA and say "wow, this is really boring to watch - if I didn't understand the game I wouldn't watch this" and I know that that is probably what most people are saying when they see it on TV. I do the same with baseball (sorry, I think baseball is really boring to watch).
Post by: qstick777 on April 14, 2005, 10:48:31 AM
quote:
The sad thing is that bowling ratings on tv have always been decent, especially when it was on ABC. One problem has been marketing. The bowling demographic was always discounted and nobody ever took those ratings and make a case to get better advertisers. It could have been done. Maybe it still can, but it becomes more difficult to grab a decent nitch in the cable satellite market.
Very true, but it can be done. Look at the World Poker Tour. It can't just be the game, because you can find 2 or 3 other "poker" shows on Game Show Network, Bravo, Fox Sports, ESPN, etc but the WPT is the one you always seem to hear people talking about. Same with American Chopper - some shows just seem to draw people. I know that for some reason I can't stand to watch Arena Football. I guess the PBA just needs to find a way to make the sport more appealing to the general public (of course then the rest of the "serious" bowlers would probably be turned off).
Post by: jkiser01 on April 14, 2005, 11:14:59 AM
I am just an avergae joe and I could not survive on that..
As fas as the guys getting extra money from other sources such as ball and shoe manufacturers, only the top few guys make enough to even count that..
Very few can make it by just bowling and thats it.. Most of them have other sources of income be it another job or a spouse that works..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Post by: jimensminger on April 14, 2005, 11:34:21 AM
Right now ALL sports roads go through ESPN...except GOLF,..Arnie said the hell with ESPN and bought his own channel,....I wonder if Mr Palmer bowls...
Post by: Pinbuster on April 14, 2005, 11:36:55 AM
Assuming expenses are 25K they would split the 18k between them. So 9k for his 6 months of bowling.
But this year with the guaranteed 2k per week and exempt player would have been foolish not to sponsor themselves.
Post by: DP3 on April 14, 2005, 02:52:37 PM
quote:
Most of the guys on tour come from privledged backgrounds in the first place. It's not like bowling is your only income when you've been sitting on a couple hundred grand in the first place since you were in your early 20s.
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-DP3
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.....The majority of these guys are not struggling at all, especially the young guys. TRUST ME!
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-DP3
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Post by: Ragnar on April 14, 2005, 02:59:58 PM
quote:
Most of the guys on tour come from privledged backgrounds in the first place. It's not like bowling is your only income when you've been sitting on a couple hundred grand in the first place since you were in your early 20s.
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-DP3
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Are you a moron? I'd like some substantiation of tbis. In my experience most, if not all, touring pros come from what would be nominally described as working class or LMC backgrounds. I somehow must have missed where The Donald has a son on tour.
If this was an attempt at satire on your part, I will 1) offer an apology and 2) offer a suggestion that you take up another art form.
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"To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." (Tacitus)
"If one tells the truth, one is sure sooner or later to be found out. " (Wilde)
Edited on 4/14/2005 2:54 PM