Post by: Current Exempt on March 31, 2008, 03:55:46 AM
I do not want to give out my name yet because I'm still undecided and wanted to keep this off any pba message board.
Post by: Hogsharley on March 31, 2008, 01:57:19 PM
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3 holes of fun!!
Edited on 3/31/2008 1:58 PM
Post by: Jeff Carter on March 31, 2008, 02:10:36 PM
The problem is the locked in costs each week :
Entry Fee - $500.00
Hotel - $300.00-400.00 ( depending on the best rate you can get on priceline - and no, we do not get discounts at Motel 6 )
So right there you are around $800.00-900.00 before you even get to the site, eat, drill balls, and basically live for that week. So to be honest, if you're on Tour living for the guaranteed check you're wasting your time. Unless you have other business interests at home or other sources of income to carry you, you will be living at almost a poverty level. Yes, you can get a job at home during the off months....but you're still limited on what you can do.
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on March 31, 2008, 02:18:58 PM
Thanks for the post. Am I the only person here who finds it absolutely (for lack of a better word) WHACK that the players do not receive discounts on their rooms from one of the biggest sponsors of the tour?
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2007-08 Averages:
Monday: 211
Tuesday Sweeper: 223
Friday: 228
Michigan Majors: 208
Post by: NicholasE on March 31, 2008, 02:22:01 PM
I thought some of the bowlers have the good life but really guys with 1 million in earning have been bowling for a long time and just now getting to that mark. I wish bowling was more like football or basketball where the bowlers actually got paid what it was worth to even show up. Seems like the PBA has a decent amount of sponsers but they aren't that great and I guess just can't put out the kind of money as some sports do.
Sucks for bowling, wish I got into basketball or football now with all this talk. I thought you could make a decent living on tour without having to place top 5 just to keep your head above water. I think I'm going to stick with local tournaments so I'm not getting killed with bills and cost. Still having fun just won't be recognized for it as much.
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Throwing hambones since 2005.
www.myspace.com/nestes12
Post by: MAJM on March 31, 2008, 02:27:40 PM
Why is it exempt players have to pay an entry fee? It's more of a general question not looking for specific reason. It would seem to me that exempt players have earned something extra and a savings of $10,000 would be a huge benefit to them.
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Join the Revolution
http://www.ronpaul2008.com
http://www.900global.com
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on March 31, 2008, 02:29:56 PM
I know I did. All I could think about was making money as a pro bowler, surrounded by beautiful women, traveling acrossed the country, drinking the finest beers, staying in the nicest hotels.
This is what I thought back when I was like 15. 10 years later, reality sets in. Living week to week, using last weeks check to try and cover my expenses for the next tournie.
As if bowling against the greatest players in the world is not stressful enough. Now you have to worry about how you're going to eat, where you're going to sleep...that doesn't sound like my idea of fun.
I am glad that we have some real players that come and post on here, and let us know what the tour is really like.
I personally could not do it. I give a big thumbs up and a nod of appreciation to those that can and do.
We, as members of this sport, can only hope for these guys that something good happens, and all their hard work and sacrifice pays off.
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2007-08 Averages:
Monday: 211
Tuesday Sweeper: 223
Friday: 228
Michigan Majors: 208
Post by: 1MechEng on March 31, 2008, 02:32:03 PM
In the end, you are going to have to decide between doing what you love, and making some money. Unless you have a fantastic year on tour and can be one of the top 15, you are likley looking at a meager income.
As Jeff Carter said, is there a way you can supplement your income while on tour, or in the summer months?
Sadly, bowling is no longer a prominent spectator sport in this country. Hence, the tournament payouts and sponsorship is not where it once was (or should be). Are you doing better than similarly ranked professionals in other 2nd and 3rd tier sports (snowboarding, swimming, mountain biking, etc.)?
Look at it another way. With the exception of the money, you seem to like what being a professional bowler has to offer. Ask yourself: Is your career as a pro bowler putting a strain on your relationship or family? Is it really just the money, or is there more to the issue? If it's just the money, I'd say enjoy it while you can. Not many people will have the chance that you have right now. If there are additional problems with your touring (lack of contact with loved ones, missing your kids childhood, etc.), then you have to make a much more difficult decision. I would consult those people that mean the most to you (spouse, family, kids, close friends), and get their input and opinions.
I envy your position (as an exempt professional bowler), but not the crucial career decision you seem to be facing. Good luck, and I hope this discussion helps!
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======================
Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.
Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member
Post by: Jeff Carter on March 31, 2008, 03:08:39 PM
2008 US Open - North Brunswick, NJ / Carolier Lanes
Entry Fee - $500.00
Hotel - $351.85 ( 49.00 / night booked on Hotwire - cheapest room i could find....remember this is the east coast )
Gas - $414.00
Food - $238.77 ( this includes 2 restaraunt meals, the rest was either Subway or Chipotle )
Thats a base total of $ 1504.62 for the week. Now this doesnt count the cost of having to have a tire replaced in Western Pennsylvania after a blowout on the side of a mountain ( almost hit the guardrail ) for $157.00.
That also does not include any drilling fees ( im fortunate that is part of my contract ). To be honest with you, i didnt do ANYTHING last week. I was pretty much either at the bowl or in the hotel room. I didnt go out, didnt drink, pretty much didnt do anything at all and my expenses were still over $1500.00 for the week.
Then i busted my butt all week in the biggest tournament in the world, with the hardest lane condition possible....finishing less than 30 pins out of match play. That means i beat 462 bowlers that entered the tournament and i made.....$1650.00 for my efforts last week. I spend 8 days on the road working my tail off for a profit of $145.00 ( i actually lost money when you factor in tire problem ). Now spend a week of you life at work, doing your job to the best of your ability and friday afternoon your boss walks in and says "we just didnt seem to have a very good week this week, so we cant afford to pay you". Thats pretty much life on Tour right now unfortunately
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: Hogsharley on March 31, 2008, 03:21:22 PM
BTW $49 is a great price for a room for that area. For $49 a night it's worth not having a roommate.
NicholasE said that maybe you should use the same balls week in and week out. If you don't have the ball or drilling to meet the lane condition, why even bother to show up that week. You be throwing away your $500 entry fee. The object is to win.
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Jeff Carter on March 31, 2008, 03:41:26 PM
That $49.00 was for the Crowne Plaze too....great hotel with a great fitness center. Every once in a while we get lucky and find some great hotel deals, even though i prefer Extended Stays so i can cook my own meals most of the week.
As far as the equipment issue goes, if you're on staff you get your equipment comped. Depending on the player, drilling fees range from $40.00 to $60.00 per ball. Most guys avg 1 ball per week, and some guys avg up to 3-4 per week. Personally, i have averaged about 1 ball per week over the last 5 seasons. I'm not one to drill a lot of balls, but the way we burn them up we need to replace balls with fresh coverstocks every now and then. Unfortunately drilling fees are the least of our financial worries. Unless you are being paid by a manufacturer ( or multiple companies ), its tough to make decent money. If you are on staff you can make incentive money if you make a show, but even those amounts have dwindled over the years. After that you have to rely on outside interests to supplement your income.
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: Pinbuster on March 31, 2008, 03:41:50 PM
Plus there are a couple of tournaments each year that no money is guaranteed, the Open and the Masters. Beat at least 2/3 of the field or don't get a check.
Used to be if you could get on a show and get some incentive money you could make ends meet but the incentives have dropped off so bad that doesn't do it anymore.
Post by: Ishmael on March 31, 2008, 04:11:14 PM
quote:
Food - $238.77 ( this includes 2 restaraunt meals, the rest was either Subway or Chipotle )
Jeff, you shouldn't include food as part of your weekly expenses. You have to eat whether you're a pro bowler on the road, or a plumber working out of your house.
Post by: JessN16 on March 31, 2008, 04:19:43 PM
quote:quote:
Food - $238.77 ( this includes 2 restaraunt meals, the rest was either Subway or Chipotle )
Jeff, you shouldn't include food as part of your weekly expenses. You have to eat whether you're a pro bowler on the road, or a plumber working out of your house.
It's still money out. Money out is money out. I'm a newspaper editor and I get paid twice a month and I guarantee you food is on my expense list each month. No matter what you call it, everything boils down to "+" or "-" on the balance sheet.
Jess
Post by: novawagonmaster on March 31, 2008, 04:50:39 PM
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Jon (in Ohio)
aka: Rico Swerve~
Post by: tonybowls on March 31, 2008, 05:29:42 PM
That's ridiculous!!! The PBA has truly become a joke. Shame on them for not taking better care of the best bowlers in the world. It's sad.
Post by: tburky on March 31, 2008, 05:53:26 PM
quote:
Hog gas was included in that but i did forget about the tolls. I'm glad you said that because my I-Pass worked in Pennsylvania so i didnt get receipts. Gotta do that for tax purposes....thanks for reminding me. So there was another $20.00 in tolls !!!
That $49.00 was for the Crowne Plaze too....great hotel with a great fitness center. Every once in a while we get lucky and find some great hotel deals, even though i prefer Extended Stays so i can cook my own meals most of the week.
As far as the equipment issue goes, if you're on staff you get your equipment comped. Depending on the player, drilling fees range from $40.00 to $60.00 per ball. Most guys avg 1 ball per week, and some guys avg up to 3-4 per week. Personally, i have averaged about 1 ball per week over the last 5 seasons. I'm not one to drill a lot of balls, but the way we burn them up we need to replace balls with fresh coverstocks every now and then. Unfortunately drilling fees are the least of our financial worries. Unless you are being paid by a manufacturer ( or multiple companies ), its tough to make decent money. If you are on staff you can make incentive money if you make a show, but even those amounts have dwindled over the years. After that you have to rely on outside interests to supplement your income.
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
It's too bad the PBA does not have more sponsors. Every other sport pros make money except bowling. Hell, I bet poker on tv makes more money if the individual does not gamble it back.
Post by: CHawk15 on March 31, 2008, 10:23:51 PM
Currently, I believe I'm at the stage in my bowling life where I think I could go to a PBA regional tournament and not make a total fool out of myself. I still have alot of work to do in terms of my physical and mental game and improving my versatility, not to mention learning how to bowl on all the patterns (no Fall PBA Experience leagues in Tucson this yr). I was debating about going for the unlimited tournament PBA card, but I think I'm going to go ahead and spend the $$$ to buy PBA card that lets you bowl 3 tournaments a year, bowl a few tournaments and see how I stack up. Worst case, it'll be a great learning experience. I once had dreams of putting in the time and effort to be able to compete for a spot on the exempt tour, but after reading this, I have to tell you, it doesn't look like there's much financial reward for doing so. That's not to say that I'm not going to try to improve my game, because my compeitive nature won't allow that. It's just not something I'm going to consider trying to make a living at. There's only a select few that can do it successfully and I take my hat off to them. The public doesn't know just how good the exempt bowlers really are because of the "great wall of china" oil patterns and everything else that drives scoring up in the local bowling centers. It's a shame and I hope the USBC puts a stop to it before it's too late, but it may already be too late.
Edited on 3/31/2008 10:25 PM
Post by: frockc on March 31, 2008, 10:59:18 PM
Post by: lsf_21 on March 31, 2008, 11:09:05 PM
quote:
I think the pba is a vicious cycle... They won't put more money in because noone is watching but i think no one watches because there is not much money... I play poker alot and i think the fact it has taken off so much is because the prize money is so insane... People are winning or losing millions on the turn of a card that is exciting to see... Did u ever think people would love to watch poker on tv??? I think if they had a 500,000 dollar tourney or a million they could advertise that and people would watch... They probably need a few tourneys in the 100k region and then like one or two a year for 1 million or 500k... That would boost the rating i believe...
and where do you suppose the money will come from
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http://lsf.bowlspace.com/
GO CUBS!!!!
Post by: bowlitup on March 31, 2008, 11:41:55 PM
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Ben
Quit Crying and Keep Bowling, or Quit Bowling and Keep Crying.
VIVA LA NACION!!!
Edited on 3/31/2008 11:45 PM
Post by: keeones23 on March 31, 2008, 11:52:44 PM
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Post by: bowlitup on April 01, 2008, 01:10:54 AM
Good luck out there, and thanks for doing what you all do!
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Ben
Quit Crying and Keep Bowling, or Quit Bowling and Keep Crying.
VIVA LA NACION!!!
Post by: Rev_O on April 01, 2008, 01:37:20 AM
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Rev-O
Post by: jbruno6 on April 01, 2008, 06:06:13 AM
quote:
Bassmasters winners get a check for $100,000..
Where's the justice in that ?
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Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
Bassmasters has sponsors. They pay them to put their products on air, so the fisherman watching at home go, and buy the products. The PBA does not have the sponsors paying them. Until people want to put their products on during a PBA telecast, there will be no money. What about a channel switch? If nobody but the bowling purists are watching anyway, why not put it on an obscure channel with lower costs.
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A half ten is not a great shot. No, you shouldn't have carried it.
www.jeterisanoverratedplayer.blogspot.com
Post by: Rev_O on April 01, 2008, 06:24:01 AM
quote:quote:
Bassmasters winners get a check for $100,000..
Where's the justice in that ?
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Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
Bassmasters has sponsors. They pay them to put their products on air, so the fisherman watching at home go, and buy the products. The PBA does not have the sponsors paying them. Until people want to put their products on during a PBA telecast, there will be no money. What about a channel switch? If nobody but the bowling purists are watching anyway, why not put it on an obscure channel with lower costs.
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A half ten is not a great shot. No, you shouldn't have carried it.
www.jeterisanoverratedplayer.blogspot.com
I dont think the fact that they go up against NASCAR and FOOTBALL helps any either. I say put it back on Saturday afternoons.
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Rev-O
Post by: Jorge300 on April 01, 2008, 08:09:19 AM
Why isn't Ebonite sponsoring the tour, Dexter, Linds, Etonic, etc. There are many companies that make equipment for bowlers, these are companies that need to step up and give advertising and sponsor money to the PBA tour. And what about other related things, golf comes to mind. I bet at least 75% of bowlers play golf, why not go to some golf companies about advertising during the telecasts? It is time to think out of the box a little if we want this tour to survive. After reading what Jeff Carter posted here, it is a shame the best our sport has to offer, have to to do it for peanuts.
And I have said it before the PBA needs to leave ESPN. The PBA is paying for it's airtime now...let me reemphaize this the PBA is PAYING for it's airtime. So not only are they getting crappy times, they are paying money to do so. Why not look at a network like Spike or Versus, and even if they put it on for free, the PBA is saving money. And you can work out a time that benefits both sides.
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Jorge300
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 01, 2008, 08:13:42 AM
quote:Before it merged with the Indy Racing League this year, the Champ Car World Series tried leaving its pay-for-airtime contract with ESPN for deals with SpikeTV and Speed Channel, depending on the year. It was a miserable failure. The NHL has also gone the route of Versus, and it has likewise been a failure. They're the butt of jokes about being on Versus all the time for a reason. The exposure on ESPN is just infinitely higher than any other cable/satellite channel. Sponsors want nothing to do with you if you're on a low-market channel. Some carriers don't offer the more obscure channels.
And I have said it before the PBA needs to leave ESPN. The PBA is paying for it's airtime now...let me reemphaize this the PBA is PAYING for it's airtime. So not only are they getting crappy times, they are paying money to do so. Why not look at a network like Spike or Versus, and even if they put it on for free, the PBA is saving money. And you can work out a time that benefits both sides.
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Jorge300
Post by: actsbowler21 on April 01, 2008, 08:25:27 AM
Moving the show to saturday is going to have the same effect given that the majority of the season is in the heart of football season, you move the show from NFL (less games to deal with) to NCAA Football (a ton of games to deal with) at which point it does not matter which network it is on, the big four (ABC NBC CBS ESPN) are covering football from 12 noon til 10pm at the very earliest (eastern time).. College football has a bigger fan base than the NFL simply because College kids (including bowlers) go ape shiat over games, especially come conference play and rivalry week.
It's a dream to get coverage of bowling throughout the week on tv, but one thing that golf has over bowling is the fact that a golfer takes up air time through his planning stages of a shot. A bowler, no matter how slow, still takes on average 10-15 seconds on approach. People are not awe stricken by a bowler hitting a deck of pins. They are awe stricken by a golfer nailing a long drive or shanking it into a lake or bunker. Because basically the mentality is "wow I know I can't hit a golf ball that far or that well, but I know that my chances of knocking down this many pins are significantly higher." Add the fact that at bowling tournaments, there is action constantly going on, the viewer will get lost in the crowd of bowlers, it's impossible to focus on one particular bowler at a time. That's the beauty of golf on TV.. I know I will be seeing coverage of Tiger Woods because he's the leader.. I won't see just Pete Weber shots, I'll see Pete Weber and half a second later Rhino Page is 2 lanes away shooting, 3 seconds later Walter Ray is shooting, back to Pete for his spare, on to Parker who has front 8, too much going on at once.
sorry for the rant. It really does suck that we can't get proper coverage to attract sponsors..
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Justin Buford
Post by: michelle on April 01, 2008, 08:37:56 AM
quote:
Jeff,
Thanks for the post. Am I the only person here who finds it absolutely (for lack of a better word) WHACK that the players do not receive discounts on their rooms from one of the biggest sponsors of the tour?
While it doesn't make sense to be a sponsor and have no discount, the question is whether the discount would be greater than could be had through any other corporate rate that Motel6 offered. And, let's face it...many Motel6 properties are NOT where I would choose to spend the better part of a week for my lodging, even if I am footing expenses on my own.
Living out of a suitcase or garment bag is never going to be glamorous. But you HAVE to have some level of comfort during the down time, and the reality is that Motel6 properties often do not provide the desired levels of comfort or relaxation. Remember, we are not talking about the PBA guys just needing a bed to crash on for a few hours before getting back on the road...
Post by: Monster Pike on April 01, 2008, 10:06:14 AM
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"The last time I saw a face like that, it had a hook in it's mouth." Rodney Dangerfield
Post by: NicholasE on April 01, 2008, 10:14:50 AM
quote:
Someone front me the $8 Billion so I can get started
Do you take paypal??
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Throwing hambones since 2005.
www.myspace.com/nestes12
Post by: renoatpikeville on April 01, 2008, 10:23:49 AM
quote:
I think the pba is a vicious cycle... They won't put more money in because noone is watching but i think no one watches because there is not much money... I play poker alot and i think the fact it has taken off so much is because the prize money is so insane... People are winning or losing millions on the turn of a card that is exciting to see... Did u ever think people would love to watch poker on tv??? I think if they had a 500,000 dollar tourney or a million they could advertise that and people would watch... They probably need a few tourneys in the 100k region and then like one or two a year for 1 million or 500k... That would boost the rating i believe...
They tried the 1 Million dollar tournament here in Reno a few years ago with no luck...tournament never started.
Post by: renoatpikeville on April 01, 2008, 10:37:50 AM
quote:
The Open just paid the winner $100,000, why can't they get more of these payouts throughout the year? Maybe they need some better marketing reps or something to try & get some more corporate sponsors.
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"The last time I saw a face like that, it had a hook in it's mouth." Rodney Dangerfield
Just pondering a thought...
This past PBA tournament was an open field tournament, anyone could enter. 460+ guys at $500 a pop. That alone is $230,000 in entry alone. (dont know if exempt bowlers had to pay but that is only 40 of them, right?) Plus sponsers' funding. Anyways...at a normal PBA stop all exempt bowlers can bowl plus a few that qualify from the rabbit squad, sometimes 10. Those rabbit squads are $400 or so. 80-100+ guys try those...$32,000-$40,000. Plus there may be monies defered to year ending events. Also, the owners' of the PBA have to make their money. All in all I think with those estimated numbers you can see the difference in prize fund.
If anyone else would like to elaborate with some more accurate numbers please do...
Post by: Pinbuster on April 01, 2008, 11:01:29 AM
Each place getting into the main tournament pays the extra $200 but get at least the $1800 minimum.
Depending on number of entries another 10 to 15 TQR cash as well.
So in your scenario 10 * 1800 is $18,000 out plus another 7 to 10K in extra places.
The TQR's don't make them a lot of money.
Exempt all pay entry fees to each event even the Open and Masters and no sure check.
You are not going to get 400+ entries each week at $500 a pop even if the opened it up. At most you would get 120 with only a 1 in 3 chance of cashing against the top pro's.
Post by: Mike Austin on April 01, 2008, 12:24:13 PM
quote:
The ONLY way the PBA will make it is if ESPN buys out PBA. It could happen!!
As stated before, PBA needs some obscenely rich billionaire to buy them,.... oh wait, the PBA owners ARE OBSCENELY RICH BILLIONAIRES, from Microsoft. They just don't have the pull through out the corporate world like they thought they had. I think the ex head dude Steve Miller got the new owners off on the wrong foot and stepped on too many toes.......
Where's Ryan Shafer when we need him, Jiffy Jeff Carter probably knows the details too.
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Check out Tony's Journals - they are FREE!!
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=67&leagueid=2054
Post by: sdbowler on April 01, 2008, 12:42:13 PM
quote:quote:
The ONLY way the PBA will make it is if ESPN buys out PBA. It could happen!!
As stated before, PBA needs some obscenely rich billionaire to buy them,.... oh wait, the PBA owners ARE OBSCENELY RICH BILLIONAIRES, from Microsoft. They just don't have the pull through out the corporate world like they thought they had. I think the ex head dude Steve Miller got the new owners off on the wrong foot and stepped on too many toes.......
Where's Ryan Shafer when we need him, Jiffy Jeff Carter probably knows the details too.
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Check out Tony's Journals - they are FREE!!
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=67&leagueid=2054
Maybe they need to go ask Mr Gates for some cash.
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Brunswick
Kyle
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 01, 2008, 02:33:02 PM
First of all, the TV Show / ESPN :
ESPN does have a financial investment in the PBA Tour. Therefore, we are sort of at their mercy. Yes we do pay rights fees to be on ESPN, that much is true and quite honestly sucks. We have at least 1 or 2 more years on the current contract, so those of you that say we should just leave ESPN....it doesnt workt that way. If we could ever prove our worth to the execs at ESPN, they will gladly pay us the rights fees to our shows. This is also why we cant do any "fancy" graphics, re-plays, slo-motion and other technical special effects. We just dont have the money to put into production. As for the time slot on Sundays...thats all ESPNs call. We are the only sport that can consistently draw at least a .7 rating against the NFL, so in their eyes it would be foolish to put us somewhere that they dont feel the need to gain viewers. Unfortunatley for us, that limits our viewership. They tried the sunday night prime-time slot in Baltimore as a test run so we'll see what happens from there. As for the announcers....the play by play man is supplied by ESPN and the PBA has no say in the matter. For those of you begging for Marshall, Bo Burton, or whoever else to be in the booth...its not gonna happen. Like it or not, Rob Stone has created a little bit of a buzz and the "Hambone" has caught on. At least he has brought a little excitment to the shows. I liked Dave Ryan as a person and i thought he was very professional in the pre-show meeting, but i dont think he ever took this job seriously. Next up is the camera crews and production people. Winnercom is the company that we use for Sponsorship/Marketing and TV Production. This year we had a whole new production crew and there were some bumps in the road. We lost a crew that had been doing our shows for a number of years, and they had gotten very good at their jobs. I have a feeling that this new group will do the same in time.
Sponsorship / Marketing:
Its my opinion that the PBA needs to get away from outside marketing firms and hire our own people to do the job. Winnercom represents several sports ( Bassmasters, Bullriding, etc... ) and when they approach a Sponsor, they are represented all of their entities at one time, not just bowling. We need people selling the PBA and the PBA only....people that care about the sport and are out there working for us. Im sure Winnercom has approached every company you can think of, but its time to revamp the packages and hit them again. We need aggressive people with passion !!! Im not sure what will happen with Dennys, but we certainly need companies like them to support them, but we also need our fans to truly support our sponsors ( not continuously bash them on message boards....that means the commercials as well ). Unfortunatley, the current administration was left with a lot of debt built up by the infamous Steve Miller. Steve had a dream of where the PBA should be and had no problem spending millions to try to make that dream come true. The bad part is that his arrogance just about sunk us. Then he bolted as soon as the ship started going down. I dont blame the owners for stopping the endless cash flow, just because the have millions on top of millions that doesnt mean that they owe any of that to us. Its up to us as an organization to carry our own weight. For those of you that are wondering why the Bowling Manufacturers dont step up and put more money in....first of all, they arent making enough money these days to invest it back into the tour. Second, the TV shows just dont sell product like they used to. Third, the PBA already has the manufacturers held hostage by charging extremely high product registration fees...so the manufacturers feel they've already invested enough.
Its going to take a collective effort on everybodys part to pull us out of this...the USBC, the BPAA, the fans, the players, the owners, etc... Theres been talk about the USBC rasing dues to help support the Tours and as a card carrying member of the USBC i'm all for it, to a certain extent. I think that a minor dues increase, coupled with a fee on lane beds instituted by the BPAA would help generate enough income to help the Tours get back on their feet. The key is that the league bowlers and the bowling centers need to receive something in return for their investments. Im not sure what that is, but i'm sure it could be figured out. Another way to help grow the PBA is through the Regional program and the PBA experience leagues. If marketed properly, those leagues could be a tremendous boost....but without proper education they will fail miserably.
I could go on and on and on about this topic, but talking about it isnt going to do any good. Something needs to be done and done soon. There will always be Professional Bowling, but in what shape and form we have no idea. I'd like to think that things can turn around soon, but right now there isnt much hope on the horizon. I know i've lost my fire to compete on Tour right now. The injury layoff really made me realize how much i enjoy life at home with my kids, stability and my coaching "job". I cant even bring myself to practice right now because i just dont see the light at the end of the tunnel. Normally i would be looking forward to the Regional schedule, but since the regions just got Brunswick lane machines i think we're in for a long summer ( thats another story for another day ). So i guess i'll spend my summer coaching, bowling a little here and there, and hoping that the fire comes back sometime before October. I can tell you that i've never seen moral this low on Tour. It just doesnt look or seem like theres much enjoyment in this profession anymore. Hopefully times will change
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: Pinbuster on April 01, 2008, 02:43:17 PM
Post by: Rev_O on April 01, 2008, 03:02:20 PM
--------------------
Rev-O
Post by: DP3 on April 01, 2008, 03:09:20 PM
Eventually the mainstays on tour that we are accustomed to seeing are going to have to back out. There's no way that you can maintain a family on 20k or less a year profit. You can barely maintain your own personal life on 20k a year if you're a single taxpayer in America. With this the tour is going to have to become "younger". Every TQR you see about 50-60 guys age 20-29 with the dream of being a professional bowler. These seem like the guys with the most desire out of anyone of the week. I will continue to say that during the season, there's no more exciting day to watch live than Wednesday at the "Rabbit Squad". It's apparent the mainstays on the tour are becoming jaded, as well they should be. The game is progressing in every aspect except for the money.
The only people that can even afford to live on an exempt tour average wage would be the younger single males with no family to support or outstanding living expenses. When you take a current superstar who already has: a half a million dollar home, 3 cars, 2 kids, and a wife, who was used to the big paychecks back in the day, cheap travel expeneses, and weekly incentive checks that rival the same money as a current 2nd place check then tell them they have to maintain that lifestyle on $50,000 before expenses are taken out how can they bowl with the same drive that was once there and have the same respect for their profession? It's impossible, and it really comes across on TV and at live events. The morale just isn't the same and if you've been there live you can feel it.
Imagine being the best at whatever your occupation currently is and being ranked worldwide in the top 40 at your profession. Would you be satisfied with salary you are currently making? No. Now take a 40k paycut on top of that, which will definately put you in the red. How can you go into work everyday with the same desire and passion as you did when you first started and had that hunger? If 20-25 of the top names of the tour were to leave this season and bring that number of spots in through the TQR and Tour Trials, then that may re-spark interest in the tour, or it could drive some of the traditionalists away who can't picture a tour without a Norm Duke, Chris Barnes, Walter Ray, or Doug Kent. It's a double edged sword. Our "sport" is the only sport where a step towards progression is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's going to take alot more than alot of money to fix it. Someone could dump 10 billion into the tour tomorrow and it wouldn't change a thing if a new direction wasn't clarly followed and focused upon. It's going to take a new sharp mind, with a clear vision, and a long term detailed plan. (Which it appears the Microsoft execs didn't have, their vision of the tour was a few steps that you could write on the back of a business card.)
I have a long list of really good ideas that I've talked over with many of my peers, more of them are focused more in the presentation and production of the actual show though. It's going to be very hard for what we have in the PBA Tour to make a radical change that will preserve it for the next generation of superstars. For one, the good ole' boy buddy buddy network/glass ceiling must be broken. It's apparent that all of the people that have been running the grand stage for the past 15 years are not progressing things any better. The PBA can have a great resurgence, it's just going to have to be sparked by a great mind that's in the know with the right people for it to happen. As sad as it is to say, the few of us on here talking about it hold no weight in the people's minds that have all the power when it comes to making something happen. Kinda feels like politics
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop. Hyattsville, MD
Edited on 4/1/2008 3:11 PM
Post by: JessN16 on April 01, 2008, 03:21:17 PM
quote:
Heres the deal guys....some of this is true fact and some of it is my opinion based on fact. Too many people speculate that they know whats going on, then make their reccommendations as to what SHOULD happen. I'll be the first to say that if you can think of it, so has somebody else. Just because it may seem like common sense, there is always something behind the scenes that hold the idea back....things that you may not know about.
First of all, the TV Show / ESPN :
ESPN does have a financial investment in the PBA Tour. Therefore, we are sort of at their mercy. Yes we do pay rights fees to be on ESPN, that much is true and quite honestly sucks. We have at least 1 or 2 more years on the current contract, so those of you that say we should just leave ESPN....it doesnt workt that way. If we could ever prove our worth to the execs at ESPN, they will gladly pay us the rights fees to our shows. This is also why we cant do any "fancy" graphics, re-plays, slo-motion and other technical special effects. We just dont have the money to put into production. As for the time slot on Sundays...thats all ESPNs call. We are the only sport that can consistently draw at least a .7 rating against the NFL, so in their eyes it would be foolish to put us somewhere that they dont feel the need to gain viewers. Unfortunatley for us, that limits our viewership. They tried the sunday night prime-time slot in Baltimore as a test run so we'll see what happens from there. As for the announcers....the play by play man is supplied by ESPN and the PBA has no say in the matter. For those of you begging for Marshall, Bo Burton, or whoever else to be in the booth...its not gonna happen. Like it or not, Rob Stone has created a little bit of a buzz and the "Hambone" has caught on. At least he has brought a little excitment to the shows. I liked Dave Ryan as a person and i thought he was very professional in the pre-show meeting, but i dont think he ever took this job seriously. Next up is the camera crews and production people. Winnercom is the company that we use for Sponsorship/Marketing and TV Production. This year we had a whole new production crew and there were some bumps in the road. We lost a crew that had been doing our shows for a number of years, and they had gotten very good at their jobs. I have a feeling that this new group will do the same in time.
Sponsorship / Marketing:
Its my opinion that the PBA needs to get away from outside marketing firms and hire our own people to do the job. Winnercom represents several sports ( Bassmasters, Bullriding, etc... ) and when they approach a Sponsor, they are represented all of their entities at one time, not just bowling. We need people selling the PBA and the PBA only....people that care about the sport and are out there working for us. Im sure Winnercom has approached every company you can think of, but its time to revamp the packages and hit them again. We need aggressive people with passion !!! Im not sure what will happen with Dennys, but we certainly need companies like them to support them, but we also need our fans to truly support our sponsors ( not continuously bash them on message boards....that means the commercials as well ). Unfortunatley, the current administration was left with a lot of debt built up by the infamous Steve Miller. Steve had a dream of where the PBA should be and had no problem spending millions to try to make that dream come true. The bad part is that his arrogance just about sunk us. Then he bolted as soon as the ship started going down. I dont blame the owners for stopping the endless cash flow, just because the have millions on top of millions that doesnt mean that they owe any of that to us. Its up to us as an organization to carry our own weight. For those of you that are wondering why the Bowling Manufacturers dont step up and put more money in....first of all, they arent making enough money these days to invest it back into the tour. Second, the TV shows just dont sell product like they used to. Third, the PBA already has the manufacturers held hostage by charging extremely high product registration fees...so the manufacturers feel they've already invested enough.
Its going to take a collective effort on everybodys part to pull us out of this...the USBC, the BPAA, the fans, the players, the owners, etc... Theres been talk about the USBC rasing dues to help support the Tours and as a card carrying member of the USBC i'm all for it, to a certain extent. I think that a minor dues increase, coupled with a fee on lane beds instituted by the BPAA would help generate enough income to help the Tours get back on their feet. The key is that the league bowlers and the bowling centers need to receive something in return for their investments. Im not sure what that is, but i'm sure it could be figured out. Another way to help grow the PBA is through the Regional program and the PBA experience leagues. If marketed properly, those leagues could be a tremendous boost....but without proper education they will fail miserably.
I could go on and on and on about this topic, but talking about it isnt going to do any good. Something needs to be done and done soon. There will always be Professional Bowling, but in what shape and form we have no idea. I'd like to think that things can turn around soon, but right now there isnt much hope on the horizon. I know i've lost my fire to compete on Tour right now. The injury layoff really made me realize how much i enjoy life at home with my kids, stability and my coaching "job". I cant even bring myself to practice right now because i just dont see the light at the end of the tunnel. Normally i would be looking forward to the Regional schedule, but since the regions just got Brunswick lane machines i think we're in for a long summer ( thats another story for another day ). So i guess i'll spend my summer coaching, bowling a little here and there, and hoping that the fire comes back sometime before October. I can tell you that i've never seen moral this low on Tour. It just doesnt look or seem like theres much enjoyment in this profession anymore. Hopefully times will change
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
I think the best way I can sum this post up is to say I wish we could laugh it off as an April Fool's joke. But we can't.
Jess
Post by: twister on April 01, 2008, 03:23:12 PM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member since 1988.
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 01, 2008, 04:20:21 PM
Im not really sure about that....but what i can tell you is this : There are a lot of different "classifications" of amateurs. I've got my opinions on the US Open and some of those probably wouldn't be popular to most people, but its the gods honest truth.
I know i'm opening myself up to more criticsm here but i really think there should be stricter rules or a qualification process to be able to compete at the Majors. For example, i was 2 pair away from a guy that averaged 138 for the first 2 days. This guy got more 3 counts than 9 counts. Watching him, you could tell that his talent level was 170-180 MAX !!! But lets forget about his score, lets examine how he acted. Yes he had a little problem with the skipping procedure ( and for those of you that will say "the premadonna pros and their double jump" rules are all jerks...you should realize that you're bowling in a professional event and if you dont know the rules then you shouldnt enter ), but the biggest problem was the other distractions such as : slapping off brooklyn after brooklyn, stomping his foot after yet another 3 off the right, screaming into his shirt after missing his 4th single pin in a row, etc.... Yes i'm using this guy as an example, but when you watch this for 18 games it wears on you mentally. I was lucky to have 3 guys on my pair that took their turn, did their best and didnt cause any problems for those around them...but there were plenty of guys that certainly didnt do that. There needs to be a certain level of etiquette when bowling a tournament like the US Open ( and yes that also applies to the professionals ), but to many amateurs go into the event and treat it like league night. I wont go into how the amateurs tear up the pattern because on that junk, you cant really tear it up much more than it already is...so i wont blame them for the lane conditions at all. My only gripe is the constant distractions that go on around you all the time. I really hate to say it but it makes concentrating almost impossible, and when your income and job rely on your performance you cant afford that.
Now before you bash me, consider this....there are many levels of amateur and if you're honest with yourself you will know where you fit in. If you're that bowler that can compete at a high level on house patterns, with a good physical game and an understanding of how the sport should be played then i dont care if you go -400. But if you're there to get photos, autographs and to be able to go home and tell your friends that you bowled the US Open and crossed with Parker Bohn, then thats where the line should be drawn. I know everybody has a right to pay their entry fee and bowl, and i'll be the first to admit that we need the money....but think about this: whats gonna happen when you take a guy fighting for his job, exemption and livlihood and pair him up with a guy that booked 184 in league last year and is only there because he wanted to bowl the US Open. I mean if you dont think you have a chance at all, but bowl anyway...why bother ? I respect anybody and everybody for trying their best, but i love the game of golf but i'm certainly not going to drive to Augusta on Thursday and tee it up against Tiger. First of all, they flat out wont let me because im not good enough. On the PGA tour, if you record a high enough score they basically tell you goodbye and dont come back.
I guess my point is all amateurs shouldnt take offense to these comments because unfortunatley you are all lumped into one big category. But there are some people that really should invest that $500.00 in coaching instead of bowling the US Open. Now......bash away
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: Fatboy8 on April 01, 2008, 04:26:53 PM
It takes guts and will to grind it out, and try to make the best of things, and I wish you guys the best. Keep your heads up.
--------------------
Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Post by: JessN16 on April 01, 2008, 04:29:30 PM
What you guys need are the qualifiers that golf's U.S. Open uses prior to the big show. Those are basically x-number of rounds in the weeks leading up to the Open where everyone who wants to try out can do it and they take the top few from each qualifier.
Even then, I think there's a minimum handicap needed (2.5?). But forget that, let everyone bowl in those qualifiers at five or six houses around the country.
Still charge the $500 and do it like a mini-TQR. Give the winner of each qualifier $1,000 and the top 10 percent from each a free pass into the big show. That way you've got 60 ams, tops, entered into the main Open.
My only question is whether you can get enough ams to shoe up for it, because if I had to lay a number on it I think half the ams that currently try to shoe up for the open only do it to bowl with you and the other exempts.
Jess
Post by: pop_1 on April 01, 2008, 04:43:50 PM
Jeff, I agree that there were some people at the Open that should not have been there. I got to watch some horrific bowling. I bowl at a higher level on a THS. But, I have not bowled the Open because I feel that I am not ready. So, I agree with you there. The only problem I see with what Rapture brought up, if its true is that that kind of talk from the bowling insiders further seperates the ordinary and the pro. I think that it could be said a different way. But, I do appreciate your honesty on your posts.
With that said, if I get my spare game in better order, I will be one of those amateurs bowling next to you.
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on April 01, 2008, 04:44:37 PM
I don't see why anyone would bash you for your opinion....well on second thought, this is ballreviews.com, so undoubtedly someone will.
--------------------
Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on April 01, 2008, 05:10:47 PM
I get annoyed while bowling in my tournament series where that rule is used and people do not follow it. I could only imagine being a pro, and bowling for my salary.
People should be explained the rule, which I know they are, then if they do not follow be given a single warning, and another explanation. If they once again break the rule, kick them out..simple enough. If they yell and scream and curse and kick and cry, warn them...do it again, kick them out. This rule would have to apply to everyone, pros included, because I am sure a lot of pros kick and scream and cry when things are not going their way as well.
If someone wants to go out and spend $500 to bowl, regardless of them being "good" enough or not, they should be allowed to do so. Afterall it is an OPEN tournament. If I was a pro or someone who could compete and do well, I would be salivating at the mouth seeing these guys coming in. Donators, I believe is the term that is used. The more money put in, the more money that comes out....well at least you would think so?
As Jeff said there are different levels of amateurs. There are the people who just want to say I crossed with Parker Bohn, and then there are the people like me, who actually believe they could be good enough to cash. Would I cash...doubtful, do I think I could, you bet ya. I am also in the group that respects what is going on. Tell me the rule, I will follow it. I won't be running up and down the lanes everytime I throw a strike, or peeing on a chair because I left a split. People that do, should be asked to leave, with no refund, pros included. All rules apply to everyone....that's fair.
I could see the annoyance of having every tournament being OPEN, but I could see the benefits as well. More prize money to me would be worth putting up with a few douche rocks....once again this is assuming I was on that level.
--------------------
Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 01, 2008, 05:38:12 PM
This happened for 2 whole weeks before the PBA realized that they could just open the field up ( when lanes were available ) to anybody that wanted to bowl ( members that is ). The problem was pretty evident though...a lot of bad bowling that watered down the field. The crowds were watching guys averaging 220 and 160 on the same pair, and to be honest made the PBA look like a joke. When was the last time you saw a PGA member shoot 100 ??? At that point Steve Miller dreamed up the exempt tour concept. Do i agree with it...NO, but do i think the fields should be open to anybody that wants to bowl...NO to that either. If you open the fields to anybody that wants to bowl, then where do you draw the line. I mean i was a pretty good baseball player when i was younger but i doubt the Rangers would sign me to a contract. I was heavily involved in racing while i was growing up, but i doubt that Budweiser would stick me in Dale Jrs old ride. My point is that we need some sort of exempt field, just not sure the one we're using is the right one
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: bowlingmaniac017 on April 01, 2008, 05:46:12 PM
quote:
My point is that we need some sort of exempt field, just not sure the one we're using is the right one
You dont have to respond Jeff if you dont want, but in YOUR own thoughts what do you think should be done to better the exempt field?
--------------------
Mike
Edited on 4/1/2008 5:46 PM
Post by: tburky on April 01, 2008, 05:57:13 PM
quote:
Rapture -
Im not really sure about that....but what i can tell you is this : There are a lot of different "classifications" of amateurs. I've got my opinions on the US Open and some of those probably wouldn't be popular to most people, but its the gods honest truth.
I know i'm opening myself up to more criticsm here but i really think there should be stricter rules or a qualification process to be able to compete at the Majors. For example, i was 2 pair away from a guy that averaged 138 for the first 2 days. This guy got more 3 counts than 9 counts. Watching him, you could tell that his talent level was 170-180 MAX !!! But lets forget about his score, lets examine how he acted. Yes he had a little problem with the skipping procedure ( and for those of you that will say "the premadonna pros and their double jump" rules are all jerks...you should realize that you're bowling in a professional event and if you dont know the rules then you shouldnt enter ), but the biggest problem was the other distractions such as : slapping off brooklyn after brooklyn, stomping his foot after yet another 3 off the right, screaming into his shirt after missing his 4th single pin in a row, etc.... Yes i'm using this guy as an example, but when you watch this for 18 games it wears on you mentally. I was lucky to have 3 guys on my pair that took their turn, did their best and didnt cause any problems for those around them...but there were plenty of guys that certainly didnt do that. There needs to be a certain level of etiquette when bowling a tournament like the US Open ( and yes that also applies to the professionals ), but to many amateurs go into the event and treat it like league night. I wont go into how the amateurs tear up the pattern because on that junk, you cant really tear it up much more than it already is...so i wont blame them for the lane conditions at all. My only gripe is the constant distractions that go on around you all the time. I really hate to say it but it makes concentrating almost impossible, and when your income and job rely on your performance you cant afford that.
Now before you bash me, consider this....there are many levels of amateur and if you're honest with yourself you will know where you fit in. If you're that bowler that can compete at a high level on house patterns, with a good physical game and an understanding of how the sport should be played then i dont care if you go -400. But if you're there to get photos, autographs and to be able to go home and tell your friends that you bowled the US Open and crossed with Parker Bohn, then thats where the line should be drawn. I know everybody has a right to pay their entry fee and bowl, and i'll be the first to admit that we need the money....but think about this: whats gonna happen when you take a guy fighting for his job, exemption and livlihood and pair him up with a guy that booked 184 in league last year and is only there because he wanted to bowl the US Open. I mean if you dont think you have a chance at all, but bowl anyway...why bother ? I respect anybody and everybody for trying their best, but i love the game of golf but i'm certainly not going to drive to Augusta on Thursday and tee it up against Tiger. First of all, they flat out wont let me because im not good enough. On the PGA tour, if you record a high enough score they basically tell you goodbye and dont come back.
I guess my point is all amateurs shouldnt take offense to these comments because unfortunatley you are all lumped into one big category. But there are some people that really should invest that $500.00 in coaching instead of bowling the US Open. Now......bash away
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
very truthful
Post by: nd300 on April 01, 2008, 06:12:08 PM
I agree that there should be a line drawn.None of the "league night" shenanigans going on after you miss a spare or throw a three bagger. Yet there are some of these same amateurs who ARE capable of a good showing.
Maybe try a split level approach.....
Amateurs who average from 200-210 in one field.Take the top ten and match play them.Allow the top two or three into the Open.
Amateurs from 211 and up in the same format.
That eliminates the "donators".
Then go on with the regular format.
--------------------
Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........
Post by: bowlitup on April 01, 2008, 06:17:26 PM
quote:quote:
Someone front me the $8 Billion so I can get started
Do you take paypal??
--------------------
Throwing hambones since 2005.
www.myspace.com/nestes12
In this case, yes
--------------------
Ben
Quit Crying and Keep Bowling, or Quit Bowling and Keep Crying.
VIVA LA NACION!!!
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 01, 2008, 06:37:28 PM
The other problem still comes down to the prize money compared to expenses. We are the only sport that charges an entry fee that is totally out of whack compared to the prize money. When the last cash spot is only 3 1/2 times higher than the entry fee, you've got problems. This all boils down to money...unfortunately our world and society is totally driven by the almighty dollar. Without an influx on income into the PBA, you wont see any improvements anytime soon
As for the US Open....i can envision a 2 day qualifying event before the start of the tournament. You could somehow seed ( through a series of qualifications : PBA exempt player, national title holder, regional title holder, current or former Team USA, etc.... ) the top 100 players and then hold the qualifier before the tournament starts. Right now the entry cutoff is 492, so you can open the qualifier up to an additional 492 entries if you can get them. At that point you could bowl 9 games each day for 2 days, then cut the field to the top 228 and pair them with the seeded 100 players for a total field of 328 ( that would be 2 full squads in which you could strip and re-oil after each squad, eliminating the "burn" squad ). This way anybody that wants to bowl can, but only the better bowlers will actually make it into the main event. Just eliminating the lower 164 bowlers will help the overall level of the tournament. Just my opinion
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: Hogsharley on April 01, 2008, 06:53:38 PM
Also, what about the Pro-Am? Do all the PBA bowlers or just the exempt ones get paid? Where does all the Pro-Am money go to?
--------------------
3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 01, 2008, 07:06:22 PM
As for the pro-ams go....nobody gets paid for the pro-ams anymore. The PBA feels like its part of our job and is included in our guaranteed check. What they dont realize is that by putting the pro-ams at the end of the week, they are forcing guys to stay for an extra day or 2 accumulating expenses without adding to their income. It wouldnt be such a big deal if the PBA would work with the host center to organize the pro-ams a little better. Too many times we get booked for mulitiple pro-ams, with 10-11 amateurs on a pair. That becomes a 3+ hour pro-am and with no breaks in between. That puts us on the lanes for 6 plus hours at a time with no breaks. I personally love pro-ams, but its not fun to have to answer "how did you do this week" when you finished 48th and you're ready to go home. It may sound like im complaining, but like i said i enjoy pro-ams....i just wish they were at the beginning of the week instead of the end. I'm sure guys would be in much better moods if we had Tues or Wens pro-ams.
I also think that saturdays should be used for instructional clinics in each host city. They really should take the players that want to coach, pay them accordingly and let us educate the bowling public on PBA patterns, physical game and equipment. That way the guys that want to earn some extra money wont have a problem staying in town for an extra day or 2. Again, my .02
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: alloutsmith3 on April 01, 2008, 07:41:21 PM
quote:
Rapture -
Im not really sure about that....but what i can tell you is this : There are a lot of different "classifications" of amateurs. I've got my opinions on the US Open and some of those probably wouldn't be popular to most people, but its the gods honest truth.
I know i'm opening myself up to more criticsm here but i really think there should be stricter rules or a qualification process to be able to compete at the Majors. For example, i was 2 pair away from a guy that averaged 138 for the first 2 days. This guy got more 3 counts than 9 counts. Watching him, you could tell that his talent level was 170-180 MAX !!! But lets forget about his score, lets examine how he acted. Yes he had a little problem with the skipping procedure ( and for those of you that will say "the premadonna pros and their double jump" rules are all jerks...you should realize that you're bowling in a professional event and if you dont know the rules then you shouldnt enter ), but the biggest problem was the other distractions such as : slapping off brooklyn after brooklyn, stomping his foot after yet another 3 off the right, screaming into his shirt after missing his 4th single pin in a row, etc.... Yes i'm using this guy as an example, but when you watch this for 18 games it wears on you mentally. I was lucky to have 3 guys on my pair that took their turn, did their best and didnt cause any problems for those around them...but there were plenty of guys that certainly didnt do that. There needs to be a certain level of etiquette when bowling a tournament like the US Open ( and yes that also applies to the professionals ), but to many amateurs go into the event and treat it like league night. I wont go into how the amateurs tear up the pattern because on that junk, you cant really tear it up much more than it already is...so i wont blame them for the lane conditions at all. My only gripe is the constant distractions that go on around you all the time. I really hate to say it but it makes concentrating almost impossible, and when your income and job rely on your performance you cant afford that.
Now before you bash me, consider this....there are many levels of amateur and if you're honest with yourself you will know where you fit in. If you're that bowler that can compete at a high level on house patterns, with a good physical game and an understanding of how the sport should be played then i dont care if you go -400. But if you're there to get photos, autographs and to be able to go home and tell your friends that you bowled the US Open and crossed with Parker Bohn, then thats where the line should be drawn. I know everybody has a right to pay their entry fee and bowl, and i'll be the first to admit that we need the money....but think about this: whats gonna happen when you take a guy fighting for his job, exemption and livlihood and pair him up with a guy that booked 184 in league last year and is only there because he wanted to bowl the US Open. I mean if you dont think you have a chance at all, but bowl anyway...why bother ? I respect anybody and everybody for trying their best, but i love the game of golf but i'm certainly not going to drive to Augusta on Thursday and tee it up against Tiger. First of all, they flat out wont let me because im not good enough. On the PGA tour, if you record a high enough score they basically tell you goodbye and dont come back.
I guess my point is all amateurs shouldnt take offense to these comments because unfortunatley you are all lumped into one big category. But there are some people that really should invest that $500.00 in coaching instead of bowling the US Open. Now......bash away
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
I was at the Open all day Thurs/Fri watching and can attest that what Jeff is saying is absolutley true. There are some amatuers that should not be allowed to shoe up just for the fact that they have no clue. Its great that they love the sport and want to have the experience but there are other places for that. I'm an amatuer, not a PBA member, so I have nothing against amatuers. In fact I plan on bowling the Open next year, as an amatuer, which is part of the reason I attended this year as a spectator.
I watched you bowl a few games Jeff but never got a chance to talk to you. I plan on attending a few events for the 08-09 season so hopefully we can get a chance to chat a little bit then.
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Jason Smith
Brunswick Bowling--Proud Bearer of the Crown
VISE--The Choice of Champions
Post by: jd1319 on April 01, 2008, 08:55:41 PM
Then, revert to the old ways combined with match play. Everybody bowling in the tourny starts the same. The exempt guys and everybody else would have to bowl the qualifiers and earn their way into the top 64 and then to match play. Many more people will have a chance to work their way onto the show, where the current system for the most part, makes it extremely difficult for a non-exempt member to have a legit shot.
Post by: DON DRAPER on April 01, 2008, 09:20:38 PM
entry into the major tournaments of this sport need to be more severely restricted. just because you are a bowler does not mean you can enter the us open or the pba world championship. i'm a perfect example of this. i bowl. should i be allowed to enter the us open ? based on what ? my league averages ? my finishes in local tournaments ? should i have been allowed pba regional tournaments ? ask mike austin and jeff carter about that. i cashed once in 8 tournaments. obviously i should not have the right to enter a tournament like the us open or the pba world championship or the usbc masters.
will professional bowling and the pba ever be able to regain the type of marketing and sponsorship they had in their heyday ? it's possible but not likely......the world has changed a lot since then. i wish sponsors were lined up ready to negotiate but that will take a lot of work to attract big time sponsors.
Post by: snowman4951 on April 01, 2008, 10:19:35 PM
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FIRE ON THE LANES,ICE IN THE VEINS!!!!
Help a friend out:Sign the petition for caffeine free chocolate
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?cfreecho
Viva La Metal Militia!!
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 01, 2008, 10:39:03 PM
Snowman - thanks for the offer. You know when i was a kid, we housed an LPGA player every year during the LPGA Rail State Farm Classic. We had the same lady for several years and she was great. I know several of the girls stay in my neighborhood ( Natalie Gulbis stays with one of my Business Partner and his family ). I've always thought it would be pretty cool for us to "shack" up with local bowling fans for the week, although i doubt most people would want some of us around the house !!!
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Post by: snowman4951 on April 01, 2008, 10:43:15 PM
Just keep that in the back of your head though k!
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FIRE ON THE LANES,ICE IN THE VEINS!!!!
Help a friend out:Sign the petition for caffeine free chocolate
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?cfreecho
Viva La Metal Militia!!
Post by: C_J on April 01, 2008, 10:51:05 PM
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Etonic and Vise. The best arsenal, PERIOD!!!!
Post by: CharlieBrown on April 02, 2008, 05:32:02 AM
Good luck Jeff, Current Exempt and CJ!
Thank you for contributing to this site. Much appreciated.
Also good luck to all regional players on this site!
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The Angry Bowler
Post by: Rev_O on April 02, 2008, 06:45:51 AM
quote:
What about the mega-buck tourneys? How many of them a year are there? Granted, they are not as cool as a PBA stop but there is a lot of ca$h to be had.
The Super Hoinke in Cincinnati was cancelled this year because of lack of entries ... now why don't more PBA members bowl these kind of events to supplement their income?
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Righty
Speed: 17.0 (Quibica)
Revs: med-high to high (@400 RPM)
Axis: 5-3/4" 3/16 down
See Profile for arsenal
PBA exempt members, and now as well as some of the "professional amatuers" are banned from the megabuck tournaments.
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Rev-O
Edited on 4/2/2008 6:46 AM
Post by: NOTAP4ME on April 02, 2008, 08:08:51 AM
I often wondered how guys make it out there when the Pro-Am's are at the end of the week and you don't make it to the second round. That is a few extra days you have to stay around and pay for a room and meals. Have you talked to any PBA brass about your ideas for earlier Pro-Ams and a teaching session on Saturday? That seems like a great idea. Is there anybody that would listen?
Also, back in the day (the late 70's - early 80's) bowlings hayday, didnt some of the top guys (like a Brian Voss, Norm Duke) receive a salary for being on staff. I dont know if this is correct, however I had heard that Brian at one time was making 80K or so a year just from the ball company? So, I take it now days when you are on staff a salary is not included.
Sorry to hear that your fire isnt what is used to be, however I can understand that. The Company I work for has just told us our pensions would be frozen the next contract and pretty much we would be lucky to see any of the dollars we had coming. So, I know what you guys are going through.
Good Luck Jeff,
NoTap
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 02, 2008, 08:54:08 AM
This is why I call professional bowling the "live with Mom tour" and "the make sure you don't have any kids tour".
It is sad.
I've posted before about how comparable bowling and golf were money wise in the early 70s. To stay on par....Walter Ray would have needed to make $5 million this year to come in about 50% of Tiger's winnings(forget his endorsements).
Now we are 1/10 of that or less for the top winner! While bowling is every bit as great a sport to watch on TV as Golf(both not that exciting unless one plays the sport). Golf's TV appeal continues to grow!
Bowling is a great sport. Not the smartest way for people to apply themselves to make a living. BUT Who can blame them....it is a wonderful sport and the ball on the lanes is great to watch along with those pins a flyin when they are!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: chitown on April 02, 2008, 09:00:38 AM
quote:
Heres an example for you ( and if anybody can tell me where to cut cost, feel free to chime in ) :
2008 US Open - North Brunswick, NJ / Carolier Lanes
Entry Fee - $500.00
Hotel - $351.85 ( 49.00 / night booked on Hotwire - cheapest room i could find....remember this is the east coast )
Gas - $414.00
Food - $238.77 ( this includes 2 restaraunt meals, the rest was either Subway or Chipotle )
Thats a base total of $ 1504.62 for the week. Now this doesnt count the cost of having to have a tire replaced in Western Pennsylvania after a blowout on the side of a mountain ( almost hit the guardrail ) for $157.00.
That also does not include any drilling fees ( im fortunate that is part of my contract ). To be honest with you, i didnt do ANYTHING last week. I was pretty much either at the bowl or in the hotel room. I didnt go out, didnt drink, pretty much didnt do anything at all and my expenses were still over $1500.00 for the week.
Then i busted my butt all week in the biggest tournament in the world, with the hardest lane condition possible....finishing less than 30 pins out of match play. That means i beat 462 bowlers that entered the tournament and i made.....$1650.00 for my efforts last week. I spend 8 days on the road working my tail off for a profit of $145.00 ( i actually lost money when you factor in tire problem ). Now spend a week of you life at work, doing your job to the best of your ability and friday afternoon your boss walks in and says "we just didnt seem to have a very good week this week, so we cant afford to pay you". Thats pretty much life on Tour right now unfortunately
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295
Jeff, that's why the tour is in big trouble! if the pro's can't afford to live then what's the point of being on tour? Wouldn't it be better to stay a regional player and have a carrer outside of bowling? I know it just sucks in my opinion.
I made a post on this forum about doing an increase in the USBC dues with the xtra proceeds going to the PBA prize fund! I think it's a strong idea and many would support it. They could also put in an option in case some don't want to support it.
Edited on 4/2/2008 9:15 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 02, 2008, 12:27:46 PM
quote:Actually, remember 1998? As an experiment, they let the crowd cheer and be as loud as they wanted even while the bowler was on the approach. Despite the crowd, Parker Bohn III still shot a 300 on TV. (It's on Youtube if you want to check it out, very cool)
Do you guys really need it as quiet as a church when bowling on T.V.? It's not that way during the week before the finals. Football players and baseball players handle the noise of the crowd, so can you.
Post by: AdrianS on April 02, 2008, 06:28:15 PM
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
Post by: DRUFER on April 02, 2008, 07:40:54 PM
Also, two of the centers that i bowl in regularly both hosted US open Qualifiers. Pay 50 bucks bowl 8 games on the pattern, and the winner gets paid entry into the open. I think these 'win a spots' would be a good way to keep some of the people who shouldnt be out there away, perhaps if the PBA requires a win in a qualifer with a minimum qualifying average on the us open pattern to get into the open.
It cant look good for the Tour to have that many bowlers averaging in the 160s or less every year in the "most prestegious tourney" on Tour.
Post by: RSalas on April 02, 2008, 07:50:17 PM
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
"Powered by Brunswick since 2002"
Post by: n00dlejester on April 02, 2008, 09:25:51 PM
Post by: Buckwild on April 02, 2008, 11:23:20 PM
quote:quote:Actually, remember 1998? As an experiment, they let the crowd cheer and be as loud as they wanted even while the bowler was on the approach. Despite the crowd, Parker Bohn III still shot a 300 on TV. (It's on Youtube if you want to check it out, very cool)
Do you guys really need it as quiet as a church when bowling on T.V.? It's not that way during the week before the finals. Football players and baseball players handle the noise of the crowd, so can you.
Actually, they MADE the crowd cheer. I was at one of the events. They had signs up telling the crowd to clap. It was fake.
Post by: NYC Bowler on April 04, 2008, 12:43:29 AM
And yes, it is an "Open" Tournament, there really needs to be some serious thought given as to the requirements for entry (i.e. average requirement being raised a bit).
Just my .02
P.S. The posts by Jeff Carter are the most intellignet thoughts and opinions on bowling I have seen anywhere is quite some time. I know many others have stated this in other postings, but thank you for allowing us to see some insight and knowledge of a PBA exempt member; it is much appreciated!!
Post by: Jorge300 on April 04, 2008, 08:51:40 AM
Re: Amateurs - I am not a PBA member, but I have bowled a few regionals in my area. Luckily, the guests all seem to try their best to follow the rules, I know I do. The double jump rule isn't that hard to understand, but when you get a few "newbies" up together sometimes it gets rough. I usually err on the side of waiting and letting the others go, or until they give me the right of way, slows us down a little, but not enough to be noticeable, hopefully. And those that enter the US Open, need to realize that they need to follow these rules too. As was stated in another thread, give a warning or two, then ask them to leave. The slapping out of brooklyn strikes, while I can see how it might be annoying, I have no issues with, if someone wants to show a little emotion, I think they should. The stomping on the lane, the yelling into a shirt kind of stuff does not fall into that category and needs to be stopped, either by the person doing it, or by the tournament staff
On edit: Jeff, I am bowling a regional in a couple of weeks, would love to know your concerns on the Brunswick Lane machine. Thanks.
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Jorge300
Edited on 4/4/2008 9:18 AM
Post by: Reality Check on April 04, 2008, 09:18:46 AM
Also, in your opinion is there any way us bowling fans could help the tour, without needing to wait for the higher ups to think of something? Maybe by lobbying Motel 6 to offer discounts or something?
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.