Author Topic: NBA Players Better Than PBA Bowlers LOL (Read 4546 times)

Necromancer · « **on:** October 19, 2008, 04:05:53 AM »

Let's face it, it doesn't matter if they can't hook like the PBA bowlers, but strikes are strikes. This could really make bowling look a lot disrespected than ever. If an NBA pro can bowl 180+, then I will LOL.

Discuss.
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Necromancer · « **Reply #31 on:** October 19, 2008, 09:14:10 PM »

quote:
quote:
Didn't say I was so smart but here are my thoughts as a current MBA student:

-Make a serious change to the time slot and possibly the network that bowling is on right now. Change the day possibly or the time to a different one.
Their hands are tied by when ESPN is willing to offer them a timeslot. They actually do better at their current timeslot than almost anything else ESPN shows. And unfortunately, going to another network will DECREASE viewership simply because so many people end up watching ESPN or ESPN2 because 1) they actually get those channels, and 2) they just naturally watch whatever's on it, and 3) people forget about stuff not on the usual channels.
quote:
-End the exempt status BS. That single-handedly in my opinion, turned away a lot of bowlers that are capable of bowling pro but won't because of that crap.
Can't argue this. I don't like the exempt tour deal either.
quote:
-Get better sponsors. The current ones are complete dog@#%^.
1) How do you just plain get better sponsors? Sponsors of ANY kind are damn near impossible to come by these days. Look at NASCAR where sponsors are leaving left and right. ANY sponsorship is better than no sponsorship.
quote:
-Change the way bowling is broadcast.
That's kind of generic. What would you do different? How do you improve the broadcast without taking away from the match itself?
quote:
-Increase the buy-ins for the tournaments. Until more serious money is on the line, no one will care. They are making less now than 5-10 years ago, yet inflation has still increased as well as prices in general. Makes no sense at all to me or anyone with any common sense.
Increase the entry fee, decrease the participation. It's a balancing act. There's not that much money to go around these days...

Too many of your ideas are just unrealistic pipe dream type of ideas. The PBA is just like other lower-popularity televised professional sports: it's a business fighting for the eyes and dollars of a limited market.

Agree with what you said. Especially the Exempt system. My friend who is in the PBA only bowls in the US Open now since its the only one that is worth to even compete in. I'd bowl in more tournaments, but it doesn't seem fair to have to go through all the games of qualifying just to make it where the Exempt bowlers start the tournament.
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Necromancer · « **Reply #32 on:** October 19, 2008, 09:18:37 PM »

quote:
Why all the bad-mouthing? Does anybody really believe that since NBA players can throw a ball straight down the lanes and get a strike makes the PBA look bad? What about all the 1 counts on the first ball that I saw? A 7-pin here, a 10-pin there.

I see strikes all the time at my local lanes by folks that are happy to break 100. Come on people, this is good publicity. Lebron James has bowling lanes at his house and he starts out hitting one pin.

Most of the qualifying scores for the NBA guys were 200+ total for 2 games, meaning 100+ per game. I give them credit for taking the time to do something for charity.

Would it be cool to see bowling talented celebrities like Jerome Bettis or Nelly that have 200+ averages be involved in a PBA event? Sure. But, let's go one step at a time.

Speaking of whining, the bowling ball commercials with the guy saying that everyone else bowling good was cheating was very funny. Satire at it's best!

MrMustang300

It isn't bad-mouthing. The PBA isn't untouchable to critism. Jeez. But the facts are clear:

-PBA is the only 'sport' where prize funds have dropped
-The Exempt system debut was around the time the prize funds dropped
-More and more casual bowlers see bowling overall as a joke
-Having the majority of your 'pros' living check-to-check is a disgrace
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Jorge300 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 20, 2008, 10:11:59 AM »

quote:

It isn't bad-mouthing. The PBA isn't untouchable to critism. Jeez. But the facts are clear:

-PBA is the only 'sport' where prize funds have dropped
-The Exempt system debut was around the time the prize funds dropped
-More and more casual bowlers see bowling overall as a joke
-Having the majority of your 'pros' living check-to-check is a disgrace

What you are doing isn't critism, it's bad-mouthing.

The prize fund drop wasn't tied to the exempt tour starting, it was tied to the fact that the PBA was losing money and the owners decided to try and make it profitable. So like most business they cut costs, which meant lower prize funds.

You claim the sponsors are bad, yet you have one of the biggest up-and-coming businesses out there in Lumber Liquidators on board. Who do you think they should have? Budweiser? Well guess what Anheiser-Buesch just dropped it's NASCAR sponsorship for next year, so I doubt you'd get them for bowling. The sponsors are fine, the change this year is moving in the right direction.

The exempt tour was desgined, as I understand it, to make sure the absolute best bowlers are on TV week after week. In one breath you claim that seeing NBA pros striek is bad and that we need to see the pro's striking, but yet you want to do away with exempt tour so we can see more new players shoot 150 on TV??? The exempt tour is designed so that the 64 best bowlers have a chance to make TV every week and throw all the strikes you are claiming they need to throw. While it is not the best system in the world it has succeeded in doing what it was designed to do.

I do agree with you that the bowlers living week to week is wrong. The best atheltes in any other sport make millions a year and the very best bowlers may make $200,000 if they are lucky. The real sad thing is that the minimum salaries in baseball is $390,000 in 2008 and for football it is $285,000 for a rookie, but $820,000 for someone with 10+ years in the league. Unfortunately there are no easy answers to fix this, no matter what you might think.
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Necromancer · « **Reply #34 on:** October 20, 2008, 10:20:56 AM »

quote:
quote:

It isn't bad-mouthing. The PBA isn't untouchable to critism. Jeez. But the facts are clear:

-PBA is the only 'sport' where prize funds have dropped
-The Exempt system debut was around the time the prize funds dropped
-More and more casual bowlers see bowling overall as a joke
-Having the majority of your 'pros' living check-to-check is a disgrace

What you are doing isn't critism, it's bad-mouthing.

The prize fund drop wasn't tied to the exempt tour starting, it was tied to the fact that the PBA was losing money and the owners decided to try and make it profitable. So like most business they cut costs, which meant lower prize funds.

You claim the sponsors are bad, yet you have one of the biggest up-and-coming businesses out there in Lumber Liquidators on board. Who do you think they should have? Budweiser? Well guess what Anheiser-Buesch just dropped it's NASCAR sponsorship for next year, so I doubt you'd get them for bowling. The sponsors are fine, the change this year is moving in the right direction.

The exempt tour was desgined, as I understand it, to make sure the absolute best bowlers are on TV week after week. In one breath you claim that seeing NBA pros striek is bad and that we need to see the pro's striking, but yet you want to do away with exempt tour so we can see more new players shoot 150 on TV??? The exempt tour is designed so that the 64 best bowlers have a chance to make TV every week and throw all the strikes you are claiming they need to throw. While it is not the best system in the world it has succeeded in doing what it was designed to do.

I do agree with you that the bowlers living week to week is wrong. The best atheltes in any other sport make millions a year and the very best bowlers may make $200,000 if they are lucky. The real sad thing is that the minimum salaries in baseball is $390,000 in 2008 and for football it is $285,000 for a rookie, but $820,000 for someone with 10+ years in the league. Unfortunately there are no easy answers to fix this, no matter what you might think.
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Jorge300

Well we must think together eheh!

Also the Exempt system only helped a couple of bowlers. Of those it helped the most, it was WRW without a doubt. Not hating on him, he is one of my favorites. But his career blew up crazy after the system was in place. He was able to skip qualifying and just cruise to bowling later in the tournament. If he has a good week, he makes the TV. It helped a few others, but I doubt he would be able to win all that money if he had to qualify every week like everyone else.

I even propose, they just turn bowling into a team oriented league or something. I don't know. All I know is that unless you are in the top 5-6 in every tournament, you'd be better off working at a regular job instead.
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LuckyLefty · « **Reply #35 on:** October 20, 2008, 10:42:54 AM »

Well...I think a lot of his points are silly...

But I agree with Necromancer....the exempt tour with a prize for every bowler for a year is garbage!

It DOES NOT work like that on the PGA exempt tour!
THey have a cut every week and one walks away with nothing!
OF course their prize fund is SO BIG that no 125 on their list will make over $820,000 in prize winnings this year plus probably near $200,000 in sponser perks and endorsements!

The fact of the matter is if Tiger Woods ever doesn't make it back the PGA tour will shrink! Because in many ways it is now BORING! Much like the PBA tour.

Almost every week a very difficult condition! Much as many experts are saying all 4 majors in golf have become US OPEN like! BORING! Sort of like a the PBA tour is on the very flat patterns put out week after week! Boring...hook the ball 5 boards type of styles....over and over. Have I said the word BORING!

Now in the old days the PGA tour used to mix it up....they had the Bob Hopes with scores of 59 and 3X under par....then they had the US open with scores +2 for the winner.
There were Bomber courses, Straight hitter courses, putter courses, and tough narrow courses. A 60 man exempt list and a way to get on every week for another 70 or 80 guys! Out of these qualifications guys who could be WINNERS emerged! Exciting.

The problem today is Tiger Woods is all of those things, he is a bomber, he's actually quite straight, he can hit greens from the fairway or rough, he is a scrambler and a GREAT putter! OH boy!

Going forward, to excite the public the pro tour NEEDS to put the excitement index of the public as it's TOP agenda. Different patterns, more concentrated to the top prize funds. Bowlers need to be bowling for OVER $50,000 dollar first prizes every week! So there are fewer bowlers with families on tour.
NO ONE CARES. They care about big scoring exciting bowling for BIG MONEY!
That's all the viewer wants to see!

Get with it PBA! Varying conditions, lots of big scoring, an occassional tough week....and lots of first prize money. The cream will find a way!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
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Necromancer · « **Reply #36 on:** October 20, 2008, 10:57:01 AM »

quote:
Well...I think a lot of his points are silly...

But I agree with Necromancer....the exempt tour with a prize for every bowler for a year is garbage!

It DOES NOT work like that on the PGA exempt tour!
THey have a cut every week and one walks away with nothing!
OF course their prize fund is SO BIG that no 125 on their list will make over $820,000 in prize winnings this year plus probably near $200,000 in sponser perks and endorsements!

The fact of the matter is if Tiger Woods ever doesn't make it back the PGA tour will shrink! Because in many ways it is now BORING! Much like the PBA tour.

Almost every week a very difficult condition! Much as many experts are saying all 4 majors in golf have become US OPEN like! BORING! Sort of like a the PBA tour is on the very flat patterns put out week after week! Boring...hook the ball 5 boards type of styles....over and over. Have I said the word BORING!

Now in the old days the PGA tour used to mix it up....they had the Bob Hopes with scores of 59 and 3X under par....then they had the US open with scores +2 for the winner.
There were Bomber courses, Straight hitter courses, putter courses, and tough narrow courses. A 60 man exempt list and a way to get on every week for another 70 or 80 guys! Out of these qualifications guys who could be WINNERS emerged! Exciting.

The problem today is Tiger Woods is all of those things, he is a bomber, he's actually quite straight, he can hit greens from the fairway or rough, he is a scrambler and a GREAT putter! OH boy!

Going forward, to excite the public the pro tour NEEDS to put the excitement index of the public as it's TOP agenda. Different patterns, more concentrated to the top prize funds. Bowlers need to be bowling for OVER $50,000 dollar first prizes every week! So there are fewer bowlers with families on tour.
NO ONE CARES. They care about big scoring exciting bowling for BIG MONEY!
That's all the viewer wants to see!

Get with it PBA! Varying conditions, lots of big scoring, an occassional tough week....and lots of first prize money. The cream will find a way!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Yeah I was going to introduce the PGA scenario but I couldn't quite get it because I can't say that the PBA Excempt is analogous to Tiger Woods coming in on Sunday only to play one round (due the the scoring system in golf LOL). But yeah, they need to get rid of the socialistic system that is the PBA now. The top 3 get decent money but not that great. Then you got like 50-75 bowlers that get from $5000-$1000 each. That makes no sense. Push the prizes up to the top. It would be like if the World Series of Poker made it so 6000 out of the the 6500 that buy in get some money for prize. Instead they make is so the top 200 for this example cash. That is like the top 3%.

In the PBA now, a tournament with 200 bowlers, usually the top 100 will cash (just for example as it may be less or more depending on tournament,etc.) That is 50% of the field cashing.

PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash

Forget the money discrepancy but just the percentages. Clearly something is really messed up with the PBA payouts. Every sport does that too. Even pool on ESPN is more closely like Poker or Golf. BTW, comparing these same sports all the time because they are the closest to what bowling is: an individual sport/game that is overall non-contact, and based highly on performance and not salary or team based.
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KennyRambo · « **Reply #37 on:** October 20, 2008, 05:04:23 PM »

If you think Walter wouldn't do as well because he has to bowl an extra 7 games against a field full of hacks then you have no idea what you are talking about.

Walter is the BEST! The talent in the PTQs is not the same as the exempt bowlers(with maybe one or two exceptions), Rhino Page being the exception obviously.

The exempt tour is more about having a guaranteed amount for the players week to week. Having one bad week doesn't mean you go hungry or not have enough gas for the next stop.

And every tour stop is still fully open. It's called the PTQ. Anyone can enter it.

You have to earn your spot into the tournament. The exempt bowlers earned it by performance last year, and the non-exempt earned it in the ptq.

If 200 bowlers bowled they would probably pay top 64. It's usually a 1:3 to 1:4 ratio. If it was as low a payout as poker, no one would bowl. There's not enough money in bowling to do that, and not enough suckers like poker to make it happen.(poker is more based on luck, bowling on skill, no wonder).

In order for the Pros to make a decent amount the money has to come from sponsors. If bowlers are just bowling for other bowler's money the sport goes nowhere, and it won't sustain itself, or have a healthy field.

Lumber Liquidators is a good sponsor, and I'm glad they stepped up to replace Denny's.

Necromancer · « **Reply #38 on:** October 20, 2008, 06:06:27 PM »

quote:
If you think Walter wouldn't do as well because he has to bowl an extra 7 games against a field full of hacks then you have no idea what you are talking about.

Walter is the BEST! The talent in the PTQs is not the same as the exempt bowlers(with maybe one or two exceptions), Rhino Page being the exception obviously.

The exempt tour is more about having a guaranteed amount for the players week to week. Having one bad week doesn't mean you go hungry or not have enough gas for the next stop.

And every tour stop is still fully open. It's called the PTQ. Anyone can enter it.

You have to earn your spot into the tournament. The exempt bowlers earned it by performance last year, and the non-exempt earned it in the ptq.

If 200 bowlers bowled they would probably pay top 64. It's usually a 1:3 to 1:4 ratio. If it was as low a payout as poker, no one would bowl. There's not enough money in bowling to do that, and not enough suckers like poker to make it happen.(poker is more based on luck, bowling on skill, no wonder).

In order for the Pros to make a decent amount the money has to come from sponsors. If bowlers are just bowling for other bowler's money the sport goes nowhere, and it won't sustain itself, or have a healthy field.

Lumber Liquidators is a good sponsor, and I'm glad they stepped up to replace Denny's.

Everything you described that supports your argument also supports the reasons why I'm against it like so many others. Basically what you described was socialism - PBA style.

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KennyRambo · « **Reply #39 on:** October 20, 2008, 06:21:21 PM »

So what do you want, the PBA to dissolve and bowling be nothing more than league 10 dollar brackets and pot games?

Necromancer · « **Reply #40 on:** October 20, 2008, 06:23:05 PM »

quote:
So what do you want, the PBA to dissolve and bowling be nothing more than league 10 dollar brackets and pot games?

I already said what I want and agreed with a couple others in this thread on their overall idea which matched mine mostly.

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Kid Jete · « **Reply #41 on:** October 21, 2008, 12:35:43 AM »

quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash

Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.

Necromancer · « **Reply #42 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:39:08 AM »

quote:
quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash

Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.

I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.

The WPT is sometimes even worse.

Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.

"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"

^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?

hmmm....

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Jorge300 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 21, 2008, 09:02:42 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash

Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.

I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.

The WPT is sometimes even worse.

Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.

"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"

^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?

hmmm....
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Necromancer,
First of all, I only agreed with you on one aspect, that the pro's are underpaid, the rest of your ideas are idiotic.

Second, you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to poker. The WSOP poker payout is about 10%. The last cashspot was 666th place with a field of 6844 players, giving a payout of 9.73%. Nowhere close to 3%. Now why don't you do some research before spouting of lies next time. You sir, are a maroon.
--------------------
Jorge300

Necromancer · « **Reply #44 on:** October 21, 2008, 09:46:14 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash

Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.

I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.

The WPT is sometimes even worse.

Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.

"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"

^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?

hmmm....
--------------------
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Necromancer,
First of all, I only agreed with you on one aspect, that the pro's are underpaid, the rest of your ideas are idiotic.

Second, you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to poker. The WSOP poker payout is about 10%. The last cashspot was 666th place with a field of 6844 players, giving a payout of 9.73%. Nowhere close to 3%. Now why don't you do some research before spouting of lies next time. You sir, are a maroon.
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Jorge300

My point was still proven that the PBA payout has no where near the skewness as any other payout in any other game/sport. The PBA payout is more like a LONG LONG reversed exponential curve to the top. You got so many people winning the same crappy amount ($1000-$2000) for any tournament) and then the winner gets like 10x that amount. Also, the only lie going on is the thought that the PBA will last much longer with the way things CURRENTLY are.
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Jorge300 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:21:54 AM »

quote:
My point was still proven that the PBA payout has no where near the skewness as any other payout in any other game/sport. The PBA payout is more like a LONG LONG reversed exponential curve to the top. You got so many people winning the same crappy amount ($1000-$2000) for any tournament) and then the winner gets like 10x that amount. Also, the only lie going on is the thought that the PBA will last much longer with the way things CURRENTLY are.

Yup, your're point was proven, you don't know what the hell you are talking about 99% of the time.

Oh wait, that was your point wasn't it?
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Jorge300

Author Topic: NBA Players Better Than PBA Bowlers LOL (Read 4546 times)

Necromancer

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