Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 04:05:53 AM
Discuss.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
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Post by: tenpin477 on October 19, 2008, 12:21:38 PM
Post by: six pack on October 19, 2008, 12:33:42 PM
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: Dan Belcher on October 19, 2008, 12:38:19 PM
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 02:26:24 PM
They should of put a house shot up if they are going to have NBA players bowl.
PBA looks like it is gone after this year, especially with stupid ideas like today.
NBA players bowling = good.
PBA players bowling on some ridiculous oil pattern with NBA players striking by throwing straight = bad.
RIP PBA.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Kid Jete on October 19, 2008, 02:31:19 PM
quote:
I stopped watching after the first game. Tommy Jones missed an easy spare which just sent bowling back like 10 years. Put your mind in the NBA players and those watching at home. They have no clue of what oil patterns are or anything. They see an NBA pro strike over half the time up (like Durrant did with 3 of 6 at least), and they just see bowling as another game that anyone can get good at.
They should of put a house shot up if they are going to have NBA players bowl.
PBA looks like it is gone after this year, especially with stupid ideas like today.
NBA players bowling = good.
PBA players bowling on some ridiculous oil pattern with NBA players striking by throwing straight = bad.
RIP PBA.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
IF you're a bowler you understand what's going on. IF you aren't a bowler and you see your favorite NBA player bowling maybe you'll go and try it out just like him. I don't see any issues.
Post by: Dan Belcher on October 19, 2008, 02:33:04 PM
Why is this forum so filled with pure and total pessimism about the future of the PBA? No matter what they do, good or bad, creative or not, it's automatically deemed the end of the PBA. Nothing is ever good enough for you guys. Calm the hell down and try actually enjoying the sport for a change!
Post by: KennyRambo on October 19, 2008, 02:46:20 PM
And how about Doug Kent putting on a spare clinic?
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 02:47:03 PM
quote:quote:
I stopped watching after the first game. Tommy Jones missed an easy spare which just sent bowling back like 10 years. Put your mind in the NBA players and those watching at home. They have no clue of what oil patterns are or anything. They see an NBA pro strike over half the time up (like Durrant did with 3 of 6 at least), and they just see bowling as another game that anyone can get good at.
They should of put a house shot up if they are going to have NBA players bowl.
PBA looks like it is gone after this year, especially with stupid ideas like today.
NBA players bowling = good.
PBA players bowling on some ridiculous oil pattern with NBA players striking by throwing straight = bad.
RIP PBA.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
IF you're a bowler you understand what's going on. IF you aren't a bowler and you see your favorite NBA player bowling maybe you'll go and try it out just like him. I don't see any issues.
Well I hear the same casual morons at work or in everyday life in general that know nothing about bowling consider it some game that nerds play. It pisses me off.
I've been bowling since the 1980's and bowling used to be a man's sport. Now it has become sissified, with bowler's who I no longer think have progressed at all skill-wise since the classic bowlers of 10-20 years ago. The only thing that has changed is the equipment and technology.
This is what will destroy bowling in not too distant future.
If they are going to market bowling and the PBA like today then they need to have the PBA bowlers striking on nearly every shot. If you have to, put up a wall pattern and let them go at it. Hell, even say there is a pattern out there when there isn't.
When PBA pros are leaving single pins all the time just like NBA players who don't even know what bowling oil patterns are, or when NBA players strike half the time by just throwing it straight when PBA pros hook it only to leave the 4 pin over and over, then there is something wrong with the thinking of those behind the PBA.
Just my opinion, but I have seen bowling in general decline exponentially in recent years for some of these stupid ideas.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 02:49:42 PM
quote:
Half the time they got lucky strikes and the other half they were whiffing easy spares. They'd be lucky to shoot 160.
And how about Doug Kent putting on a spare clinic?
True, I saw Wade miss spares like that in the first game, but any casual bowler will still put that learning curve as a joke. They will think "oh if he practiced a week or so, and got his aiming down, he would make all those spares" Other idiots will say "all you need to do is throw it down the middle to get a strike, hooking it is just for style or showing off"
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Kid Jete on October 19, 2008, 02:52:32 PM
quote:quote:quote:
I stopped watching after the first game. Tommy Jones missed an easy spare which just sent bowling back like 10 years. Put your mind in the NBA players and those watching at home. They have no clue of what oil patterns are or anything. They see an NBA pro strike over half the time up (like Durrant did with 3 of 6 at least), and they just see bowling as another game that anyone can get good at.
They should of put a house shot up if they are going to have NBA players bowl.
PBA looks like it is gone after this year, especially with stupid ideas like today.
NBA players bowling = good.
PBA players bowling on some ridiculous oil pattern with NBA players striking by throwing straight = bad.
RIP PBA.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
IF you're a bowler you understand what's going on. IF you aren't a bowler and you see your favorite NBA player bowling maybe you'll go and try it out just like him. I don't see any issues.
Well I hear the same casual morons at work or in everyday life in general that know nothing about bowling consider it some game that nerds play. It pisses me off.
I've been bowling since the 1980's and bowling used to be a man's sport. Now it has become sissified, with bowler's who I no longer think have progressed at all skill-wise since the classic bowlers of 10-20 years ago. The only thing that has changed is the equipment and technology.
This is what will destroy bowling in not too distant future.
If they are going to market bowling and the PBA like today then they need to have the PBA bowlers striking on nearly every shot. If you have to, put up a wall pattern and let them go at it. Hell, even say there is a pattern out there when there isn't.
When PBA pros are leaving single pins all the time just like NBA players who don't even know what bowling oil patterns are, or when NBA players strike half the time by just throwing it straight when PBA pros hook it only to leave the 4 pin over and over, then there is something wrong with the thinking of those behind the PBA.
Just my opinion, but I have seen bowling in general decline exponentially in recent years for some of these stupid ideas.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Bowling is easy and takes far less skill to be competitive than real sports. Plus you can be a fat drunk and still average 200+ on THS, which is all the majority of bowlers know. THAT is why bowling is on the decline and outdoor, more active sports are on the rise. Be happy real athletes even take time out of their day to help with a PBA charity event.
Is that a better answer? Lol.
Post by: Juggernaut on October 19, 2008, 02:55:44 PM
I hope that people who otherwise would've never set foot in a center, now will go out and try it for themselves. I hope that some of those really have fun and decide to come back again. And I hope some of those find that it can be a serious sport and fill their need for a competitive venue.
Yes, it had its negatives, i.e. examples of how the NBA players had fun but really didn't take it to serious from the abilities standpoint, juxtaposed against the serious skills and abilities of the PBA guys.
I think the main thing here was to show bowling in a positive light. To show the lighter, funner, more recreational side of it in an effort to get more casual participants back into the game. If it is successful, and some portion of those newer participants decide to stay, it has had a ver good, positive effect overall.
--------------------
Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
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Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 03:05:29 PM
quote:
Bowling is easy and takes far less skill to be competitive than real sports. Plus you can be a fat drunk and still average 200+ on THS, which is all the majority of bowlers know. THAT is why bowling is on the decline and outdoor, more active sports are on the rise. Be happy real athletes even take time out of their day to help with a PBA charity event.
Is that a better answer? Lol.
NO! LOL. That sounds like this douchebag at work.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Kid Jete on October 19, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
quote:quote:
Bowling is easy and takes far less skill to be competitive than real sports. Plus you can be a fat drunk and still average 200+ on THS, which is all the majority of bowlers know. THAT is why bowling is on the decline and outdoor, more active sports are on the rise. Be happy real athletes even take time out of their day to help with a PBA charity event.
Is that a better answer? Lol.
NO! LOL. That sounds like this douchebag at work.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Haha he must be a pretty cool guy.
Post by: KennyRambo on October 19, 2008, 03:48:36 PM
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 03:54:15 PM
quote:
If bowling is so easy, why aren't you on tour right now?
I make a lot more money at my regular job, like many other people with decent degrees, which doesn't say much for bowling.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: sdbowler on October 19, 2008, 03:58:28 PM
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 04:05:58 PM
quote:
If you are so smart, what would you do to build the PBA up and also bowling in general? I did watch most of it to see what the NBA players would be like. I thought it was fun to watch. Only way it would have been better was if other brands could have been involved. It sucked that it was an all Ebonite family line up of equipment.
--------------------
Kyle
Didn't say I was so smart but here are my thoughts as a current MBA student:
-Make a serious change to the time slot and possibly the network that bowling is on right now. Change the day possibly or the time to a different one.
-End the exempt status BS. That single-handedly in my opinion, turned away a lot of bowlers that are capable of bowling pro but won't because of that crap.
-Get better sponsors. The current ones are complete dog@#%^.
-Change the way bowling is broadcast.
-Increase the buy-ins for the tournaments. Until more serious money is on the line, no one will care. They are making less now than 5-10 years ago, yet inflation has still increased as well as prices in general. Makes no sense at all to me or anyone with any common sense.
-Even change the whole way bowling is done. Make it a buy-in tournament. If you don't got the money, someone else will. That is your problem. So many on the exempt tour don't even belong there. I would say no one does. There is no reason why some bowler can skip qualifications and not have to qualify like an outsider. So many weeks there is some exempt bowler bowling like crap but "oh noes! he is exempt, he must be good and deserve his status until 201X or whatever"
There are a ton of more ideas but I don't know the capabilities of the PBA or what they are trying to represent. Seems like they are in idle mode right towards bankruptcy or termination.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: sdbowler on October 19, 2008, 04:21:19 PM
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: KennyRambo on October 19, 2008, 04:38:14 PM
Post by: KennyRambo on October 19, 2008, 04:50:05 PM
I don't like the fact that prizefunds are down. I'm about to start bowling regionals and I too currently make about the same in my current job as a journeyman pro would(and that's without expenses) on the national tour. But at least there still is a prizefund, and at least there's still bowling to watch on sundays. Maybe someday the prize funds will go up and there will be more incentive to go out. But right now there isn't.
The exempt bowlers earned their spots last year. If he bowls like crap all year, then next year he won't be exempt, and someone else will. If you can't make it through the ways available then you aren't exempt. Until prize funds go up, it's really the only incentive for a player knowing they'll at least make a check to cover most expenses even if they have a bad week.
Bowling is not poker, if you make it a buy in tournament like so, no one will bowl, because nobody has the money to blow. There's too much skill and physical ability and less luck involved to even compare it to poker, and not nearly the cash flow.
Post by: KennyRambo on October 19, 2008, 04:55:35 PM
Post by: Crankenstein300 on October 19, 2008, 05:39:54 PM
And was the score really that important in this event? We are doing a charity event here so whats wrong with people taking the time to try and put on an entertaining show for everyone (not just us diehards) within the parameters and make money for charity?
Post by: The SuperHitMan on October 19, 2008, 06:26:30 PM
quote:
it showed that bowling is not hard to do, its hard to be good at.
Exactly.
--------------------
Founder of H Phi H
Member of Hoss Central Inc
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If THS is so easy why dont you have a 220+ average
BANKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care if my signature is long. Deal with it.
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 08:01:40 PM
quote:
And on a side rant, why didn't they make this a REAL celebrity tournament? WHere was Drew Carey? Pair up any group of D list celebrities with pros and have at it. Where was Jerome Betis? Jeff Gordon? Charity is charity, right?
Exactly! To not have Jerome Bettis was just stupid. Out of the NBA stars they had, the only decent one was Chris Paul. I would have celebrities that can actually bowl so it would be more entertaining. I don't like Durrant on the court, so why would I like to watch him bowl?
The PBA really needs to think what they are trying to achieve before just calling on NBA stars to bowl.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 08:03:33 PM
quote:
necro is not that smart. Just another twenty something with a degree. Funny, why did you go to school and get that degree just to train for cage fighting? And really, who cares about what you can bench press? Not too many 15 yr old girls on this board that would impress. It would be impressive if you would actually post something useful for once. Oh, by the way, keep on adding to that "arsenal". One of these days you might be able to buy a game.
Edited on 10/19/2008 5:38 PM
I guarantee I can compete with you. You know how I know? Because bowling is a game with limits and unless you are going to bowl 300 every game, I have a chance.
BTW, I lead the league in average currently with 214.
BTW #2, I only use 1 ball for league - Black Widow LOL. My arsenal is for show-off purposes only as I carry my prized gems - the Helix Brothers.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 08:07:37 PM
quote:
We can all wish for these things to happen like some of Necro's ideas but plain and simple reality prevents them from happening. Sorry to say but bowling just isn't that desireable to spectators, sponsors, etc to be demanding that kind of money or exposure currently.
And was the score really that important in this event? We are doing a charity event here so whats wrong with people taking the time to try and put on an entertaining show for everyone (not just us diehards) within the parameters and make money for charity?
Well I say whoever is behind the PBA to research what the PGA did, what Nascar did, and what Poker did. The PGA prizes and popularity were garbage back in the day. Now it is awesome. Same game, same technology advances, but somehow they figured it out. Nascar is mostly a southern 'sport' if you call it a sport at all. You watch cars go around in circles. Not sure about anyone else, but I bet bowling is a lot more entertaining than that. But Nascar blew up like nothing else. Poker, well umm... they show a poker game. It is on ESPN every day of the week. It is also on CSN. It is on NBC every night M-F. Somehow some rocket-scientist figured it out.
All 3 made it for different reasons. All I'm asking is for someone smart in the PBA, to do the same. Doesn't have to be money, it can be the way they show it on TV, the interaction, the game itself..., etc.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: renaissanceman517kak on October 19, 2008, 08:18:19 PM
Post by: Dan Belcher on October 19, 2008, 08:52:07 PM
quote:Their hands are tied by when ESPN is willing to offer them a timeslot. They actually do better at their current timeslot than almost anything else ESPN shows. And unfortunately, going to another network will DECREASE viewership simply because so many people end up watching ESPN or ESPN2 because 1) they actually get those channels, and 2) they just naturally watch whatever's on it, and 3) people forget about stuff not on the usual channels.
Didn't say I was so smart but here are my thoughts as a current MBA student:
-Make a serious change to the time slot and possibly the network that bowling is on right now. Change the day possibly or the time to a different one.
quote:Can't argue this. I don't like the exempt tour deal either.
-End the exempt status BS. That single-handedly in my opinion, turned away a lot of bowlers that are capable of bowling pro but won't because of that crap.
quote:1) How do you just plain get better sponsors? Sponsors of ANY kind are damn near impossible to come by these days. Look at NASCAR where sponsors are leaving left and right. ANY sponsorship is better than no sponsorship.
-Get better sponsors. The current ones are complete dog@#%^.
quote:That's kind of generic. What would you do different? How do you improve the broadcast without taking away from the match itself?
-Change the way bowling is broadcast.
quote:Increase the entry fee, decrease the participation. It's a balancing act. There's not that much money to go around these days...
-Increase the buy-ins for the tournaments. Until more serious money is on the line, no one will care. They are making less now than 5-10 years ago, yet inflation has still increased as well as prices in general. Makes no sense at all to me or anyone with any common sense.
Too many of your ideas are just unrealistic pipe dream type of ideas. The PBA is just like other lower-popularity televised professional sports: it's a business fighting for the eyes and dollars of a limited market.
Post by: MrMustang300 on October 19, 2008, 09:12:35 PM
I see strikes all the time at my local lanes by folks that are happy to break 100. Come on people, this is good publicity. Lebron James has bowling lanes at his house and he starts out hitting one pin.
Most of the qualifying scores for the NBA guys were 200+ total for 2 games, meaning 100+ per game. I give them credit for taking the time to do something for charity.
Would it be cool to see bowling talented celebrities like Jerome Bettis or Nelly that have 200+ averages be involved in a PBA event? Sure. But, let's go one step at a time.
Speaking of whining, the bowling ball commercials with the guy saying that everyone else bowling good was cheating was very funny. Satire at it's best!
MrMustang300
Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 09:14:10 PM
quote:quote:Their hands are tied by when ESPN is willing to offer them a timeslot. They actually do better at their current timeslot than almost anything else ESPN shows. And unfortunately, going to another network will DECREASE viewership simply because so many people end up watching ESPN or ESPN2 because 1) they actually get those channels, and 2) they just naturally watch whatever's on it, and 3) people forget about stuff not on the usual channels.
Didn't say I was so smart but here are my thoughts as a current MBA student:
-Make a serious change to the time slot and possibly the network that bowling is on right now. Change the day possibly or the time to a different one.quote:Can't argue this. I don't like the exempt tour deal either.
-End the exempt status BS. That single-handedly in my opinion, turned away a lot of bowlers that are capable of bowling pro but won't because of that crap.quote:1) How do you just plain get better sponsors? Sponsors of ANY kind are damn near impossible to come by these days. Look at NASCAR where sponsors are leaving left and right. ANY sponsorship is better than no sponsorship.
-Get better sponsors. The current ones are complete dog@#%^.quote:That's kind of generic. What would you do different? How do you improve the broadcast without taking away from the match itself?
-Change the way bowling is broadcast.quote:Increase the entry fee, decrease the participation. It's a balancing act. There's not that much money to go around these days...
-Increase the buy-ins for the tournaments. Until more serious money is on the line, no one will care. They are making less now than 5-10 years ago, yet inflation has still increased as well as prices in general. Makes no sense at all to me or anyone with any common sense.
Too many of your ideas are just unrealistic pipe dream type of ideas. The PBA is just like other lower-popularity televised professional sports: it's a business fighting for the eyes and dollars of a limited market.
Agree with what you said. Especially the Exempt system. My friend who is in the PBA only bowls in the US Open now since its the only one that is worth to even compete in. I'd bowl in more tournaments, but it doesn't seem fair to have to go through all the games of qualifying just to make it where the Exempt bowlers start the tournament.
--------------------
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Post by: Necromancer on October 19, 2008, 09:18:37 PM
quote:
Why all the bad-mouthing? Does anybody really believe that since NBA players can throw a ball straight down the lanes and get a strike makes the PBA look bad? What about all the 1 counts on the first ball that I saw? A 7-pin here, a 10-pin there.
I see strikes all the time at my local lanes by folks that are happy to break 100. Come on people, this is good publicity. Lebron James has bowling lanes at his house and he starts out hitting one pin.
Most of the qualifying scores for the NBA guys were 200+ total for 2 games, meaning 100+ per game. I give them credit for taking the time to do something for charity.
Would it be cool to see bowling talented celebrities like Jerome Bettis or Nelly that have 200+ averages be involved in a PBA event? Sure. But, let's go one step at a time.
Speaking of whining, the bowling ball commercials with the guy saying that everyone else bowling good was cheating was very funny. Satire at it's best!
MrMustang300
It isn't bad-mouthing. The PBA isn't untouchable to critism. Jeez. But the facts are clear:
-PBA is the only 'sport' where prize funds have dropped
-The Exempt system debut was around the time the prize funds dropped
-More and more casual bowlers see bowling overall as a joke
-Having the majority of your 'pros' living check-to-check is a disgrace
--------------------
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Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
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Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
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2008-09 Three-Peat???
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6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Jorge300 on October 20, 2008, 10:11:59 AM
quote:
It isn't bad-mouthing. The PBA isn't untouchable to critism. Jeez. But the facts are clear:
-PBA is the only 'sport' where prize funds have dropped
-The Exempt system debut was around the time the prize funds dropped
-More and more casual bowlers see bowling overall as a joke
-Having the majority of your 'pros' living check-to-check is a disgrace
What you are doing isn't critism, it's bad-mouthing.
The prize fund drop wasn't tied to the exempt tour starting, it was tied to the fact that the PBA was losing money and the owners decided to try and make it profitable. So like most business they cut costs, which meant lower prize funds.
You claim the sponsors are bad, yet you have one of the biggest up-and-coming businesses out there in Lumber Liquidators on board. Who do you think they should have? Budweiser? Well guess what Anheiser-Buesch just dropped it's NASCAR sponsorship for next year, so I doubt you'd get them for bowling. The sponsors are fine, the change this year is moving in the right direction.
The exempt tour was desgined, as I understand it, to make sure the absolute best bowlers are on TV week after week. In one breath you claim that seeing NBA pros striek is bad and that we need to see the pro's striking, but yet you want to do away with exempt tour so we can see more new players shoot 150 on TV??? The exempt tour is designed so that the 64 best bowlers have a chance to make TV every week and throw all the strikes you are claiming they need to throw. While it is not the best system in the world it has succeeded in doing what it was designed to do.
I do agree with you that the bowlers living week to week is wrong. The best atheltes in any other sport make millions a year and the very best bowlers may make $200,000 if they are lucky. The real sad thing is that the minimum salaries in baseball is $390,000 in 2008 and for football it is $285,000 for a rookie, but $820,000 for someone with 10+ years in the league. Unfortunately there are no easy answers to fix this, no matter what you might think.
--------------------
Jorge300
Post by: Necromancer on October 20, 2008, 10:20:56 AM
quote:quote:
It isn't bad-mouthing. The PBA isn't untouchable to critism. Jeez. But the facts are clear:
-PBA is the only 'sport' where prize funds have dropped
-The Exempt system debut was around the time the prize funds dropped
-More and more casual bowlers see bowling overall as a joke
-Having the majority of your 'pros' living check-to-check is a disgrace
What you are doing isn't critism, it's bad-mouthing.
The prize fund drop wasn't tied to the exempt tour starting, it was tied to the fact that the PBA was losing money and the owners decided to try and make it profitable. So like most business they cut costs, which meant lower prize funds.
You claim the sponsors are bad, yet you have one of the biggest up-and-coming businesses out there in Lumber Liquidators on board. Who do you think they should have? Budweiser? Well guess what Anheiser-Buesch just dropped it's NASCAR sponsorship for next year, so I doubt you'd get them for bowling. The sponsors are fine, the change this year is moving in the right direction.
The exempt tour was desgined, as I understand it, to make sure the absolute best bowlers are on TV week after week. In one breath you claim that seeing NBA pros striek is bad and that we need to see the pro's striking, but yet you want to do away with exempt tour so we can see more new players shoot 150 on TV??? The exempt tour is designed so that the 64 best bowlers have a chance to make TV every week and throw all the strikes you are claiming they need to throw. While it is not the best system in the world it has succeeded in doing what it was designed to do.
I do agree with you that the bowlers living week to week is wrong. The best atheltes in any other sport make millions a year and the very best bowlers may make $200,000 if they are lucky. The real sad thing is that the minimum salaries in baseball is $390,000 in 2008 and for football it is $285,000 for a rookie, but $820,000 for someone with 10+ years in the league. Unfortunately there are no easy answers to fix this, no matter what you might think.
--------------------
Jorge300
Well we must think together eheh!
Also the Exempt system only helped a couple of bowlers. Of those it helped the most, it was WRW without a doubt. Not hating on him, he is one of my favorites. But his career blew up crazy after the system was in place. He was able to skip qualifying and just cruise to bowling later in the tournament. If he has a good week, he makes the TV. It helped a few others, but I doubt he would be able to win all that money if he had to qualify every week like everyone else.
I even propose, they just turn bowling into a team oriented league or something. I don't know. All I know is that unless you are in the top 5-6 in every tournament, you'd be better off working at a regular job instead.
--------------------
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Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
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6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 20, 2008, 10:42:54 AM
But I agree with Necromancer....the exempt tour with a prize for every bowler for a year is garbage!
It DOES NOT work like that on the PGA exempt tour!
THey have a cut every week and one walks away with nothing!
OF course their prize fund is SO BIG that no 125 on their list will make over $820,000 in prize winnings this year plus probably near $200,000 in sponser perks and endorsements!
The fact of the matter is if Tiger Woods ever doesn't make it back the PGA tour will shrink! Because in many ways it is now BORING! Much like the PBA tour.
Almost every week a very difficult condition! Much as many experts are saying all 4 majors in golf have become US OPEN like! BORING! Sort of like a the PBA tour is on the very flat patterns put out week after week! Boring...hook the ball 5 boards type of styles....over and over. Have I said the word BORING!
Now in the old days the PGA tour used to mix it up....they had the Bob Hopes with scores of 59 and 3X under par....then they had the US open with scores +2 for the winner.
There were Bomber courses, Straight hitter courses, putter courses, and tough narrow courses. A 60 man exempt list and a way to get on every week for another 70 or 80 guys! Out of these qualifications guys who could be WINNERS emerged! Exciting.
The problem today is Tiger Woods is all of those things, he is a bomber, he's actually quite straight, he can hit greens from the fairway or rough, he is a scrambler and a GREAT putter! OH boy!
Going forward, to excite the public the pro tour NEEDS to put the excitement index of the public as it's TOP agenda. Different patterns, more concentrated to the top prize funds. Bowlers need to be bowling for OVER $50,000 dollar first prizes every week! So there are fewer bowlers with families on tour.
NO ONE CARES. They care about big scoring exciting bowling for BIG MONEY!
That's all the viewer wants to see!
Get with it PBA! Varying conditions, lots of big scoring, an occassional tough week....and lots of first prize money. The cream will find a way!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Necromancer on October 20, 2008, 10:57:01 AM
quote:
Well...I think a lot of his points are silly...
But I agree with Necromancer....the exempt tour with a prize for every bowler for a year is garbage!
It DOES NOT work like that on the PGA exempt tour!
THey have a cut every week and one walks away with nothing!
OF course their prize fund is SO BIG that no 125 on their list will make over $820,000 in prize winnings this year plus probably near $200,000 in sponser perks and endorsements!
The fact of the matter is if Tiger Woods ever doesn't make it back the PGA tour will shrink! Because in many ways it is now BORING! Much like the PBA tour.
Almost every week a very difficult condition! Much as many experts are saying all 4 majors in golf have become US OPEN like! BORING! Sort of like a the PBA tour is on the very flat patterns put out week after week! Boring...hook the ball 5 boards type of styles....over and over. Have I said the word BORING!
Now in the old days the PGA tour used to mix it up....they had the Bob Hopes with scores of 59 and 3X under par....then they had the US open with scores +2 for the winner.
There were Bomber courses, Straight hitter courses, putter courses, and tough narrow courses. A 60 man exempt list and a way to get on every week for another 70 or 80 guys! Out of these qualifications guys who could be WINNERS emerged! Exciting.
The problem today is Tiger Woods is all of those things, he is a bomber, he's actually quite straight, he can hit greens from the fairway or rough, he is a scrambler and a GREAT putter! OH boy!
Going forward, to excite the public the pro tour NEEDS to put the excitement index of the public as it's TOP agenda. Different patterns, more concentrated to the top prize funds. Bowlers need to be bowling for OVER $50,000 dollar first prizes every week! So there are fewer bowlers with families on tour.
NO ONE CARES. They care about big scoring exciting bowling for BIG MONEY!
That's all the viewer wants to see!
Get with it PBA! Varying conditions, lots of big scoring, an occassional tough week....and lots of first prize money. The cream will find a way!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Yeah I was going to introduce the PGA scenario but I couldn't quite get it because I can't say that the PBA Excempt is analogous to Tiger Woods coming in on Sunday only to play one round (due the the scoring system in golf LOL). But yeah, they need to get rid of the socialistic system that is the PBA now. The top 3 get decent money but not that great. Then you got like 50-75 bowlers that get from $5000-$1000 each. That makes no sense. Push the prizes up to the top. It would be like if the World Series of Poker made it so 6000 out of the the 6500 that buy in get some money for prize. Instead they make is so the top 200 for this example cash. That is like the top 3%.
In the PBA now, a tournament with 200 bowlers, usually the top 100 will cash (just for example as it may be less or more depending on tournament,etc.) That is 50% of the field cashing.
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash
Forget the money discrepancy but just the percentages. Clearly something is really messed up with the PBA payouts. Every sport does that too. Even pool on ESPN is more closely like Poker or Golf. BTW, comparing these same sports all the time because they are the closest to what bowling is: an individual sport/game that is overall non-contact, and based highly on performance and not salary or team based.
--------------------
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Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
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6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: KennyRambo on October 20, 2008, 05:04:23 PM
Walter is the BEST! The talent in the PTQs is not the same as the exempt bowlers(with maybe one or two exceptions), Rhino Page being the exception obviously.
The exempt tour is more about having a guaranteed amount for the players week to week. Having one bad week doesn't mean you go hungry or not have enough gas for the next stop.
And every tour stop is still fully open. It's called the PTQ. Anyone can enter it.
You have to earn your spot into the tournament. The exempt bowlers earned it by performance last year, and the non-exempt earned it in the ptq.
If 200 bowlers bowled they would probably pay top 64. It's usually a 1:3 to 1:4 ratio. If it was as low a payout as poker, no one would bowl. There's not enough money in bowling to do that, and not enough suckers like poker to make it happen.(poker is more based on luck, bowling on skill, no wonder).
In order for the Pros to make a decent amount the money has to come from sponsors. If bowlers are just bowling for other bowler's money the sport goes nowhere, and it won't sustain itself, or have a healthy field.
Lumber Liquidators is a good sponsor, and I'm glad they stepped up to replace Denny's.
Post by: Necromancer on October 20, 2008, 06:06:27 PM
quote:
If you think Walter wouldn't do as well because he has to bowl an extra 7 games against a field full of hacks then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Walter is the BEST! The talent in the PTQs is not the same as the exempt bowlers(with maybe one or two exceptions), Rhino Page being the exception obviously.
The exempt tour is more about having a guaranteed amount for the players week to week. Having one bad week doesn't mean you go hungry or not have enough gas for the next stop.
And every tour stop is still fully open. It's called the PTQ. Anyone can enter it.
You have to earn your spot into the tournament. The exempt bowlers earned it by performance last year, and the non-exempt earned it in the ptq.
If 200 bowlers bowled they would probably pay top 64. It's usually a 1:3 to 1:4 ratio. If it was as low a payout as poker, no one would bowl. There's not enough money in bowling to do that, and not enough suckers like poker to make it happen.(poker is more based on luck, bowling on skill, no wonder).
In order for the Pros to make a decent amount the money has to come from sponsors. If bowlers are just bowling for other bowler's money the sport goes nowhere, and it won't sustain itself, or have a healthy field.
Lumber Liquidators is a good sponsor, and I'm glad they stepped up to replace Denny's.
Everything you described that supports your argument also supports the reasons why I'm against it like so many others. Basically what you described was socialism - PBA style.
--------------------
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Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
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Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
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6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: KennyRambo on October 20, 2008, 06:21:21 PM
Post by: Necromancer on October 20, 2008, 06:23:05 PM
quote:
So what do you want, the PBA to dissolve and bowling be nothing more than league 10 dollar brackets and pot games?
I already said what I want and agreed with a couple others in this thread on their overall idea which matched mine mostly.
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Kid Jete on October 21, 2008, 12:35:43 AM
quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash
Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.
Post by: Necromancer on October 21, 2008, 08:39:08 AM
quote:quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash
Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.
I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.
The WPT is sometimes even worse.
Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.
"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"
^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?
hmmm....
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Jorge300 on October 21, 2008, 09:02:42 AM
quote:quote:quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash
Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.
I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.
The WPT is sometimes even worse.
Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.
"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"
^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?
hmmm....
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Necromancer,
First of all, I only agreed with you on one aspect, that the pro's are underpaid, the rest of your ideas are idiotic.
Second, you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to poker. The WSOP poker payout is about 10%. The last cashspot was 666th place with a field of 6844 players, giving a payout of 9.73%. Nowhere close to 3%. Now why don't you do some research before spouting of lies next time. You sir, are a maroon.
--------------------
Jorge300
Post by: Necromancer on October 21, 2008, 09:46:14 AM
quote:quote:quote:quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash
Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.
I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.
The WPT is sometimes even worse.
Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.
"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"
^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?
hmmm....
--------------------
Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Necromancer,
First of all, I only agreed with you on one aspect, that the pro's are underpaid, the rest of your ideas are idiotic.
Second, you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to poker. The WSOP poker payout is about 10%. The last cashspot was 666th place with a field of 6844 players, giving a payout of 9.73%. Nowhere close to 3%. Now why don't you do some research before spouting of lies next time. You sir, are a maroon.
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Jorge300
My point was still proven that the PBA payout has no where near the skewness as any other payout in any other game/sport. The PBA payout is more like a LONG LONG reversed exponential curve to the top. You got so many people winning the same crappy amount ($1000-$2000) for any tournament) and then the winner gets like 10x that amount. Also, the only lie going on is the thought that the PBA will last much longer with the way things CURRENTLY are.
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Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: Jorge300 on October 21, 2008, 11:21:54 AM
quote:
My point was still proven that the PBA payout has no where near the skewness as any other payout in any other game/sport. The PBA payout is more like a LONG LONG reversed exponential curve to the top. You got so many people winning the same crappy amount ($1000-$2000) for any tournament) and then the winner gets like 10x that amount. Also, the only lie going on is the thought that the PBA will last much longer with the way things CURRENTLY are.
Yup, your're point was proven, you don't know what the hell you are talking about 99% of the time.
Oh wait, that was your point wasn't it?
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Jorge300
Post by: Nails on October 21, 2008, 11:39:19 AM
quote:
I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that... the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.
You can't talk about your "point" after making such a bold statement.
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: Necromancer on October 21, 2008, 12:02:04 PM
quote:quote:
I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that... the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.
You can't talk about your "point" after making such a bold statement.
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Telling it like it is.
It's only bold because you made it bold LOL.
j/k
Anyways, I didn't know we were in People's Court. So I said the word 'fact' and it wasn't exactly right... oooooohhhhhh scary!!!
JEsuS CHRIST, didn't know we couldn't grasp the overall situation of the PBA but get sidetracked over a statement !
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Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
Post by: KennyRambo on October 21, 2008, 04:50:25 PM
quote:
Pro Billiards pays one spot, the winner take all in a lot of tournaments. It does not stop people from entering a pool tournament. I think any pro that won a tournament in the reactive resin era, regional or national, should be able to bowl. So if the field were 400 bowlers every week paying $500 to get in, that is $200,000 of prize fund supported by the PBA members, plus 200,000 from sponsors, that is $400,000 prize fund. First place could be $100,000 every week.
It can be done if the field were bigger. 64 is way too small. If the average PBA member in the top 100 all made $100,000 or more per year, not including endorsements, a lot more guys would be PBA members. If they had 30 tournaments a year instead of 20-22, believe me they would fill the spots. Run the tour September through April like a league season.
I like this.
Post by: Walking E on October 21, 2008, 05:47:35 PM
quote:
... Speaking of whining, the bowling ball commercials with the guy saying that everyone else bowling good was cheating was very funny. Satire at it's best!
MrMustang300
Those were funny, and it made me think of all those suckers on this site who jumped all over the multiple Dale Jenkins threads. LOL - the joke is on everyone who got bent out of shape about his rants.
Oh, and while I agree that they could've made the lanes easier for the pros, I think a lot of bowlers discount the straight shot as a viable shot. When the lanes are totally crappy or I'm playing a reverse block, I find the best shot for me is rockets at the head pin, and it can work pretty well. I've bowled in some houses (the late Java Lanes in Long Beach, CA comes to mind) where the best carry came from shots that entered straight into the head pin area, either right on the nose or light enough to get the wall shot. Seriously, shots like that carried great, but hooking shots into the pocket resulted in the entire back row being left in many games. Weird place, but that was the characteristic, and it looks like that was the characteristic of the place the PBA/NBA charity event was held as those high-speed wall shots the NBA guys occasionally threw carried pretty much every time.
Sure, the NBA guys didn't know that playing it straight was a good option on that day, but the point I'm making is that so-called bowling experts don't necessarily have open minds about what can score and what can't. As another example, there are probably lots of bowlers nowadays who think you always score better with reactive or particle equipment, but there are plenty of times when urethane is the better option. Even the pros should be more open-minded about using urethane, especially when the lanes are super dry and squirrely, but this kind of "bowling elitist" mentality prevents people from going back to basics.
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Edited on 10/22/2008 6:26 PM
Post by: Slumpbuster on October 22, 2008, 05:38:47 PM
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Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!
Post by: KennyRambo on October 22, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
Post by: Kid Jete on October 22, 2008, 05:58:56 PM
quote:quote:quote:
PBA: ~50% cash
Poker: Top 3% cash
Not that it matters but poker isn't 3% lol. The majority of the time big tournies are on a 10% payout.
I'm talking about the major tournaments on both the WSOP and the WPT. Most WSOP tournaments are not 10% payout. That is ridiculous. I know for a fact that the main event payout is very low %-wise. You have 6000 people lose their $10,000 buy-in out of around 6500 which equates to a $60,000,000 loss to the ~93%+ that don't get anything.
The WPT is sometimes even worse.
Anyways, the guy above you about the pool/billiards payout is the way to go IMO. This 'pay-everyone-because-they-deserve-it-because-they-won-a-tournament-last-year' BS is just that - BS! Imagine if they implemented that system in other aspects of life.
"Hey Necromancer, I know you did very well last year at work, that engineering report you completed was just great. You know what? You are exempt next year. Even if you f*** up everything in the office and screw up every calculation, you will still get paid!!! Wow what a system we have huh Necromancer? heehhehehe"
^ That is the PBA right now. And what is this idea that they deserve to be there because they won some other week? Aren't we supposed to reward those that are the best this week?
hmmm....
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Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
How is that ridiculous? You don't know how poker works then. I have never seen ANY tourny pay less than around 10% of the field. In the main event the top 666 of 6,844 cashed which is pretty easy to figure out that was just a tad under 10% of the field. And the WPT is normally MUCH higher than this. Did you even take a minute to do some research before you just made up some numbers?