Author Topic: PBA allows women to get cards (Read 6544 times)

TwoFourEightNineNine · « **on:** March 28, 2004, 08:54:48 PM »

comments...
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-Jeremy Vitug

omegabowler · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2004, 03:45:37 PM »

wow Phillip Marlowe, you almost think like a ex Microsoft employee.

consume the competition. shrink the market. take what you want discard the rest and make a Billion Dollars. muwawahhhh!( dr evil laugh)

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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

HamPster · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2004, 03:54:34 PM »

While I don't think the women will make a ripple, I have to comment on what Stan said and Mumzie replied to. I just about spit out what I was eating when Stan said the PWBA shots for the last couple years were too easy, those shots were frickin HARD. I mean, I never bowled on them, but just watching I could see how much tighter the shot was than the PBA shots. I'd like to see Feldman on Pattern E though, she might have a shot. They might do pretty well at the regionals though. You do have to admit that the women have basically nothing anymore. They're at the stage where the PBA was a couple years ago. Nothing's exciting, the commentators SUCK (well, Jan anyway, Cathy was pretty good), the atmosphere was boring, and all in all, not a whole lot was going on. The same people were on the show every week, there were about 8 or 9 that rotated around.
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seadrive · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2004, 04:30:58 PM »

I like the idea of women in the PBA, but this is another example of the new PBA's "If you don't like it, don't bowl" attitude.

They could have asked for some input from the membership before going forward with this, don't you think?

I'm not sure why the "membership association" even exists any more. Sign up to bowl a regional, prove you carry the requisite 200+ average for the past two years, and bowl. The PBA takes membership dues from bowlers, then tells them they have absolutely no say in anything.

Seems strange to me...
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl

mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2004, 04:44:28 PM »

I personally bowl next to Wendy MacPherson weekly including tonight and i have to tell you she is an awesome bowler man or woman. She kicked my anchor to the curb the week we bowled her 5 points to 0 and he is an ex-touring pro bowler from the 1980s and the 2 time high roller champion for 100k two times Paul Renteria. She held up Dave Wodka this past weekend and they did not win the doubles tournament but because her bowling they took third in a group of very good bowlers including Carol Gianotti, Tish Johnson and others. You are nuts if you do not think she has a great strike and spare game she throws the ball faster than 80 percent of our league and averages 227 a game on twister pins. I do not bowl in an easy house and because we have ex tour players our shot is not a cake shot it makes you work for your scores. She cannot swing the lane like Robert Smith or Michelle Feldman but i would not count her out on any day to beat anybody plain and simple. Acccuracy and shot making is still key no matter what pattern you are on and she has the skills to make it, so yes let them prove all you boneheads against this wrong.

TwoFourEightNineNine · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2004, 05:00:01 PM »

quote:
can men now bowl the women's regionals ? i think not

Why would you want to bowl womens' regionals anyway?? Those who get mad about the women bowling in ABC tournaments are telling me that they would like to bowl in the WIBC as a guy. That's just too funny.
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-Jeremy Vitug

Edited on 3/29/2004 5:55 PM

michelle · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2004, 05:06:24 PM »

quote:

The women screwed up their own tournament and why give them a chance to do it to the PBA.

The bowlers were not the proximate cause of the demise of the PWBA...there were some very heated discussions about the way certain things were handled.

quote:
If they get in, they will probably want to change the lane conditions because they can not throw the ball hard enough to compete with the guys. Lets face it, the PWBA for the past few years did not have a very hard shot. How many of the women just dumped the ball and watched it hook.

As mumzie pointed out, the women were using sport-compliant conditions. The guys got away from that. Explain again to me how that is an issue of demanding softer conditions? There are a lot of women that have wanted the opportunity to bowl against a larger field on challenging conditions, and that opportunity now exists after many years of knocking on the door. I believe it was Anne-Marie that was on the cover of one of the bowling magazines in the late 80's or early 90's with the caption of "Hey PBA, I wanna play."

There may be times where the lanes get scorched enough to create problems, but I wonder if it is going to be a regular occurrence...the PWBA regionals were generally back-to-back blocks that totalled 12 games and the national events were 9-game blocks. Maybe it would surprise you to realize that there are women that can play by or over the cap...I know that Jeffrevs and 1fife got to see me in that neighborhood in C squad when I was up there last May (my best game of the day actually came in what was the 23rd game of the day bowled on that pair).

Since the announcement today, I have yet to hear anyone asking for special privileges. It remains to be seen what impact it may have on the LCT, which also starts up with regional events in a few weeks (and the question of conflicts has already been raised). The decision certainly forces me to revisit my decision not to sanction with ABC...

ksm300 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29, 2004, 05:10:14 PM »

In my opinion I think that the women should be given the opportunity to bowl on the PBA. However, if the PWBA starts back up then I change my mind.

Steven · « **Reply #23 on:** March 29, 2004, 05:20:10 PM »

michelle: Do you intend to work toward achieving minimum qualifications for the PBA, and then apply for a card?
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

Urethane Game · « **Reply #24 on:** March 29, 2004, 05:30:41 PM »

I believe that there are most definitely women who can be competitive in PBA action. Tish Johnson won a Hoinke Super Classic a few years back but I'm sure Stan would say it was because she's left handed.

If I had to guess, I think the following players could be competitive. Carolyn Dorin-Ballard, Kendra Gaines, Kelly Kulick, Carol Gianotti, Wendy Macpherson, Cara Honeychurch and perhaps Tammy Turner.

michelle · « **Reply #25 on:** March 29, 2004, 05:35:03 PM »

I hear my stalker has resurfaced...go figure that it would be in a topic related to average...suffice it to say that my stalker may wish to read Rule 10.8 in the PBA rulebook.

Oh...and I have not made a decision whether to pursue PBA membership or not...I'll wait and see about cashing a check and then evaluate those options.

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2004, 06:08:56 PM »

Now, let's start with the basics: I'm a ...pretty fair amateur. I could get my PBA card easily. I can, over short periods of time, compete with almost anyone. Wendy Macpherson, Kim Terrell, Michelle Feldman, Aleta Sill, Carolyn Dorin-Ballard are wayyyyy better than me. But...they are not, on the whole, going to compete with the guys successfully over the course of a season -- not in terms of success in the way that top women view it (titles, points, money). A couple might -- I repeat might -- make a living on the tour. But it won't be many. And the more top women who take this route, the less the chance for a real women's tour. It may be their only option, but I would view it as a last resort.

King, if any of the women makes the finals in any tournament next year, I'll eat my tie. Over the course of the week, power makes a difference. The women will have to bowl qualifiers this year or win in the Q-trials (if they can get in) which requires mondo amounts of bowling and exposes the areas in which they are not as strong as the men, speed and revs. Then they will have to bowl the guys in 64 person brackets...frankly, it is not something that looks good for the gals. It's a good PR ploy, but it doesn't do the women much good.

Women have competed with the men this year, at the Masters for example (gee those are sport compliant conditions...you'd think they would have a huge advantage if....). Some made the initial cuts and finished ahead of some of the guys (Kim Terrell was 61st (cashed $1200, made match play, lost 669 to 593 and 634 to 581 -- and out), Kelly Kulick was 104th (cashed $1000), Missy Bellinder was 119th (cashed $1000), and Liz Johnson was 271st of over 580), but none made any serious noise.
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Steven · « **Reply #27 on:** March 29, 2004, 06:15:50 PM »

michelle: Stalker? LOL.

I'm very aware of rule 10.8, thank you. This rule actually pertains to qualifications for amateur entries, where I specifically asked you about doing what's necessary to join the PBA as a real member.

No matter. If you want to talk about 10.8, that's OK. The rule basically says that, as an amateur, you can bowl in most tournaments on the PBA Tour if:

1) You've averaged 200+ in league, or
2) You've averaging 190 in an ABC-Certified Sport league for 21 games, or
3) The Commissioner waives the above rules at his discretion.

At least until this year, you did not appear to qualify under (1) or (2). However, maybe things have changed and you've got yourself in gear. I really hope that's the case. If not, are you talking about entrance under the Commissioner wildcard?
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

michelle · « **Reply #28 on:** March 29, 2004, 06:19:08 PM »

Phillip, I would be surprised to see many at the national level in the next season unless they happened to snag the sponsor exemption in a given week...let's face it, there isn't a whole lot of time to meet the requirement to compete in the Trials for those that wanted to pursue a national spot. Where it will be interesting to watch is in what happens at the regional level...do the former PWBA national players go for the bigger bucks in the more frequent PBA regional events or try and shoot the perceived easier prey in the less-frequent LCT events?

Another issue may be whether the LCT events continue to run brackets like the PWBA regional events did or if they stop them...brackets could add to the weekend payouts and a really good weekend in the brackets more than covered all expenses for the weekend. I believe that there are no brackets in the PBA regional events...and yes, there are women that are as interested in the brackets as the guys.

janderson · « **Reply #29 on:** March 29, 2004, 06:40:54 PM »

quote:
Over the course of the week, power makes a difference

So that's how Baker won the PBA World Championship!?!

Yes, that's sarcasm, and no, that is not directed at you, Phillip Marlowe, even though I'm directly quoting from your post. The sarcasm is directed at the general attitude that high speed and high revs are mandatory to score and score consistently so therefore women can not compete with the men. That is simply not the case. There is only one PBA member with a five-year exemption, and it is not a high-speed high-rev player.

Now, Phillip Marlowe makes a very good evaluation using this year's ABC Masters results - it's empirical data showing what happened when the women and men were mixed together on equal footing, not idle speculation as to what might happen in the future.

Allowing women to compete in the PBA can (IMO) ultimately make either side of this issue happy. Those believe say the women can't compete - why worry? If the results are consistently as they were in the Masters, most if not all of the women will likely stop bowling PBA events because it is a losing venture and seek competition elsewhere, such as in the LCT. Those who say the women can compete - here is your chance ladies. Regardless of what conditions may or may not have been in the past, whether speed and revs truly do score better, whether women have the consistency to keep up over the week, etc. etc. ... the proof is in the pudding. If you go nose to nose with the best bowler in the world and beat the best bowler in the world, then you've proven you can bowl with the best, to he|| with what anyone else thinks.

Of course the biggest impact will be felt at the regional level! The first 50 exempt spots for next year's national events are already filled, which means there would be at most 8 exempt females coming from the tour trials. That is, unless the rules are changed and I don't see the PBA doing that because of all of the commotion the exempt tour rules caused among the existing PBA members this past year. Likewise, I don't believe we'll see the PBA-C-for-women pattern evolve.

As mentioned in a similar post, allowing the ladies in increases prize funds, gives another marketing ploy/attraction, and creates an organization that features the best BOWLER in the world regardless of gender. There's no indication that any special provisions will be given to the ladies beyond allowing them to join and bowl and I have yet to hear any credible evidence that any ever will.
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Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #30 on:** March 29, 2004, 06:49:41 PM »

Michelle, I hope the women do a mix of regionals and LCTs. It will enable them to make some money, keep their skills sharpened and stay in focus for when the PBA (probably) or someone else ultimately creates a women's tour. A note, however, the competition at many of the PBA regionals is pretty good -- guys like Jaros, Traber, WRW, Allen and some really phenomenal part-timers. It's not a way the women are going to make a living.

Good luck when you get back bowling at your best, by the way.
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."

Author Topic: PBA allows women to get cards (Read 6544 times)

TwoFourEightNineNine

PBA allows women to get cards

omegabowler

Re: PBA allows women to get cards

HamPster

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seadrive

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mrbowlingnut

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TwoFourEightNineNine

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michelle

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ksm300

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Steven

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Urethane Game

Re: PBA allows women to get cards

michelle

Re: PBA allows women to get cards

Phillip Marlowe

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Steven

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michelle

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janderson

Re: PBA allows women to get cards

Phillip Marlowe

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