Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on March 28, 2004, 08:54:48 PM
--------------------
-Jeremy Vitug
Post by: Ernie McCracken on March 29, 2004, 11:58:11 AM
--------------------
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Post by: J_Mac on March 29, 2004, 12:04:55 PM
--------------------
I'll be all set once I figure out how to get this ball to throw itself.
Post by: Scolai on March 29, 2004, 12:06:32 PM
I for one am extremely excited for the women who can now join the ranks of the PBA and compete with us from week to week.
--------------------
NutIf horse racing is the sport of kings, then surely bowling is a very good sport as well.
Post by: Stan on March 29, 2004, 12:08:12 PM
My message to the Women, is to get their act together and get the PWBA back with less nonsense and more bowling !!!
Hope I did not come across too strong but as you can tell, I do have a opinion.
Post by: Ernie McCracken on March 29, 2004, 12:12:13 PM
quote:
Not sure why you'd want to watch Feldman bowl... but I'd be glad to see some of the other ladies get a chance. Could you imagine not making next years tour because you got beat out by a woman? LOL
--------------------
I'll be all set once I figure out how to get this ball to throw itself.
I'm trying to learn Feldman's release!
--------------------
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Post by: J_Mac on March 29, 2004, 12:12:32 PM
If the ladies are a minority in the future PBA do you really think they'd have a chance to make any major change to the tour? Come on, get real.
--------------------
I'll be all set once I figure out how to get this ball to throw itself.
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on March 29, 2004, 12:23:37 PM
I wonder what Michelle has to say...
--------------------
-Jeremy Vitug
Post by: mumzie on March 29, 2004, 12:28:25 PM
quote:
Lets face it, the PWBA for the past few years did not have a very hard shot.
What's your sport bowling average?
The women were forced to bowl on sport conditions on tour. The PBA abandoned pure sport conditions a couple of years ago BECAUSE THE SCORES WERE TOO LOW!!!
Now - I will agree that the conditions seen lately by the women can favor those with no hand, but easy??? I think not.
Post by: Jeffrevs on March 29, 2004, 12:29:06 PM
If they won't make a difference, ....SO FREAKING WHAT!?! Let 'em in...who cares ?!?!
J_Mac, Michelle Feldman has one of the strongest releases on both tours!!
--------------------
JEFF
Better....much better!
Post by: Pinbuster on March 29, 2004, 12:34:09 PM
If one of the gals can be a regional points leader or win a spot thru the tour qualifier more power to them.
But I’m not holding my breath.
Post by: Borincano on March 29, 2004, 12:40:05 PM
Post by: BadShot on March 29, 2004, 12:51:00 PM
what a unique opportunity this will be for bowling. it will be the only major or semi-major sport where the playing field will be level, and the best PERSON will win. this could be a tremendous windfall for the popularity of the sport, which is in dire need of some resuscitation.
i hereby declare that i will watch the PBA Tour with more enthusiasm, and that i will be extremely interested in how next year turns out with the inclusion of all qualified athletes in the tournaments.
best of luck to all bowlers!!! just wait and see. this will be huge.
--------------------
That which does not kill me makes me stronger . . .
Post by: seadrive on March 29, 2004, 12:59:40 PM
Whaddya think, LT?
If I heard that Kim Adler, Kelly Kulick and Kim Terrell were going to be competing in a PBA regional within driving distance, I'd definitely be motivated to attend. Wouldn't you?
I think it's good for the game, and good for the PBA. Let the games begin.
--------------------
seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on March 29, 2004, 03:25:44 PM
--------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: omegabowler on March 29, 2004, 03:45:37 PM
consume the competition. shrink the market. take what you want discard the rest and make a Billion Dollars. muwawahhhh!( dr evil laugh)
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: HamPster on March 29, 2004, 03:54:34 PM
--------------------
The whenever-I-feel-like-updating-my-signature series by Hamster, presenting a quote from The Italian Job.
"2.7 million!"
"Are you sure?"
"Wait, no, that's 27 million. 27 million dollars! YES!"
*Awkward silence*
"Just got the, uh, . . holy spirit. You should get on that train, good ride."
Post by: seadrive on March 29, 2004, 04:30:58 PM
They could have asked for some input from the membership before going forward with this, don't you think?
I'm not sure why the "membership association" even exists any more. Sign up to bowl a regional, prove you carry the requisite 200+ average for the past two years, and bowl. The PBA takes membership dues from bowlers, then tells them they have absolutely no say in anything.
Seems strange to me...
--------------------
seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: mrbowlingnut on March 29, 2004, 04:44:28 PM
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on March 29, 2004, 05:00:01 PM
quote:
can men now bowl the women's regionals ? i think not
Why would you want to bowl womens' regionals anyway?? Those who get mad about the women bowling in ABC tournaments are telling me that they would like to bowl in the WIBC as a guy. That's just too funny.
--------------------
-Jeremy Vitug
Edited on 3/29/2004 5:55 PM
Post by: michelle on March 29, 2004, 05:06:24 PM
quote:
The women screwed up their own tournament and why give them a chance to do it to the PBA.
The bowlers were not the proximate cause of the demise of the PWBA...there were some very heated discussions about the way certain things were handled.
quote:
If they get in, they will probably want to change the lane conditions because they can not throw the ball hard enough to compete with the guys. Lets face it, the PWBA for the past few years did not have a very hard shot. How many of the women just dumped the ball and watched it hook.
As mumzie pointed out, the women were using sport-compliant conditions. The guys got away from that. Explain again to me how that is an issue of demanding softer conditions? There are a lot of women that have wanted the opportunity to bowl against a larger field on challenging conditions, and that opportunity now exists after many years of knocking on the door. I believe it was Anne-Marie that was on the cover of one of the bowling magazines in the late 80's or early 90's with the caption of "Hey PBA, I wanna play."
There may be times where the lanes get scorched enough to create problems, but I wonder if it is going to be a regular occurrence...the PWBA regionals were generally back-to-back blocks that totalled 12 games and the national events were 9-game blocks. Maybe it would surprise you to realize that there are women that can play by or over the cap...I know that Jeffrevs and 1fife got to see me in that neighborhood in C squad when I was up there last May (my best game of the day actually came in what was the 23rd game of the day bowled on that pair).
Since the announcement today, I have yet to hear anyone asking for special privileges. It remains to be seen what impact it may have on the LCT, which also starts up with regional events in a few weeks (and the question of conflicts has already been raised). The decision certainly forces me to revisit my decision not to sanction with ABC...
Post by: ksm300 on March 29, 2004, 05:10:14 PM
Post by: Steven on March 29, 2004, 05:20:10 PM
--------------------
"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: Urethane Game on March 29, 2004, 05:30:41 PM
If I had to guess, I think the following players could be competitive. Carolyn Dorin-Ballard, Kendra Gaines, Kelly Kulick, Carol Gianotti, Wendy Macpherson, Cara Honeychurch and perhaps Tammy Turner.
Post by: michelle on March 29, 2004, 05:35:03 PM
Oh...and I have not made a decision whether to pursue PBA membership or not...I'll wait and see about cashing a check and then evaluate those options.
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on March 29, 2004, 06:08:56 PM
King, if any of the women makes the finals in any tournament next year, I'll eat my tie. Over the course of the week, power makes a difference. The women will have to bowl qualifiers this year or win in the Q-trials (if they can get in) which requires mondo amounts of bowling and exposes the areas in which they are not as strong as the men, speed and revs. Then they will have to bowl the guys in 64 person brackets...frankly, it is not something that looks good for the gals. It's a good PR ploy, but it doesn't do the women much good.
Women have competed with the men this year, at the Masters for example (gee those are sport compliant conditions...you'd think they would have a huge advantage if....). Some made the initial cuts and finished ahead of some of the guys (Kim Terrell was 61st (cashed $1200, made match play, lost 669 to 593 and 634 to 581 -- and out), Kelly Kulick was 104th (cashed $1000), Missy Bellinder was 119th (cashed $1000), and Liz Johnson was 271st of over 580), but none made any serious noise.
--------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: Steven on March 29, 2004, 06:15:50 PM
I'm very aware of rule 10.8, thank you. This rule actually pertains to qualifications for amateur entries, where I specifically asked you about doing what's necessary to join the PBA as a real member.
No matter. If you want to talk about 10.8, that's OK. The rule basically says that, as an amateur, you can bowl in most tournaments on the PBA Tour if:
1) You've averaged 200+ in league, or
2) You've averaging 190 in an ABC-Certified Sport league for 21 games, or
3) The Commissioner waives the above rules at his discretion.
At least until this year, you did not appear to qualify under (1) or (2). However, maybe things have changed and you've got yourself in gear. I really hope that's the case. If not, are you talking about entrance under the Commissioner wildcard?
--------------------
"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: michelle on March 29, 2004, 06:19:08 PM
Another issue may be whether the LCT events continue to run brackets like the PWBA regional events did or if they stop them...brackets could add to the weekend payouts and a really good weekend in the brackets more than covered all expenses for the weekend. I believe that there are no brackets in the PBA regional events...and yes, there are women that are as interested in the brackets as the guys.
Post by: janderson on March 29, 2004, 06:40:54 PM
quote:
Over the course of the week, power makes a difference
So that's how Baker won the PBA World Championship!?!
Yes, that's sarcasm, and no, that is not directed at you, Phillip Marlowe, even though I'm directly quoting from your post. The sarcasm is directed at the general attitude that high speed and high revs are mandatory to score and score consistently so therefore women can not compete with the men. That is simply not the case. There is only one PBA member with a five-year exemption, and it is not a high-speed high-rev player.
Now, Phillip Marlowe makes a very good evaluation using this year's ABC Masters results - it's empirical data showing what happened when the women and men were mixed together on equal footing, not idle speculation as to what might happen in the future.
Allowing women to compete in the PBA can (IMO) ultimately make either side of this issue happy. Those believe say the women can't compete - why worry? If the results are consistently as they were in the Masters, most if not all of the women will likely stop bowling PBA events because it is a losing venture and seek competition elsewhere, such as in the LCT. Those who say the women can compete - here is your chance ladies. Regardless of what conditions may or may not have been in the past, whether speed and revs truly do score better, whether women have the consistency to keep up over the week, etc. etc. ... the proof is in the pudding. If you go nose to nose with the best bowler in the world and beat the best bowler in the world, then you've proven you can bowl with the best, to he|| with what anyone else thinks.
Of course the biggest impact will be felt at the regional level! The first 50 exempt spots for next year's national events are already filled, which means there would be at most 8 exempt females coming from the tour trials. That is, unless the rules are changed and I don't see the PBA doing that because of all of the commotion the exempt tour rules caused among the existing PBA members this past year. Likewise, I don't believe we'll see the PBA-C-for-women pattern evolve.
As mentioned in a similar post, allowing the ladies in increases prize funds, gives another marketing ploy/attraction, and creates an organization that features the best BOWLER in the world regardless of gender. There's no indication that any special provisions will be given to the ladies beyond allowing them to join and bowl and I have yet to hear any credible evidence that any ever will.
--------------------
Kill the back row
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on March 29, 2004, 06:49:41 PM
Good luck when you get back bowling at your best, by the way.
--------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: mumzie on March 29, 2004, 07:20:01 PM
quote:
I've been thinking about this the majority of the afternoon...
Here's my PERSONAL decision...
I'm not going to join the PBA - at least not at this time. And there's only one reason why - the "nearby tournament rule".
If there's a pba regional on a weekend so many hours away (don't remember exactly, but a lot), and another tournament (say a woman's LCT tournament), I'd be prohibited to bowl the other tournament without permission of the tournament director - and the director (at least in this region) doesn't give permission. If I went and bowled the women's tournament instead of the regional, I'd be fined, and forfeit any moneys won.
Not worth it. At least not at this time.
And for those of you who care - I'm not disputing the validity of the rule. I think that rule is a VERY valid one, if you want to maintain the health of the highest level of the sport. It just doesn't work, considering the duplicity of the two organizations.
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on March 29, 2004, 08:09:32 PM
Do I think women can compete some weeks? Yes. Do I think a women is likely to win a national PBA event? No. Do I think it is even plausible? Hmmm, maybe, once in a very great while.... Empirically, it isn't likely.
However, this does not address the essence of my point. Empirically, for whatever reason, women are not going to reach the levels of the sport competing against men (and the recognition for their skills) that they should. Thus, my point is merely that PBA membership for women is a distraction, not a solution.
--------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: bowler257628 on March 29, 2004, 09:00:13 PM
quote:
I am dead against it. The women screwed up their own tournament and why give them a chance to do it to the PBA. If they get in, they will probably want to change the lane conditions because they can not throw the ball hard enough to compete with the guys. Lets face it, the PWBA for the past few years did not have a very hard shot. How many of the women just dumped the ball and watched it hook. There are good women bowlers that probably could compete with the men. But they always try to do something cute which messes everything up. Good example is the announcers they had. Boy, what a pair. Also, another pet peeve of mine is that we allow the women to bowl in the ABC Nationals, but the Men are not allowed to join WIBC and we can not bowl in their national event. Where is the equity ???
My message to the Women, is to get their act together and get the PWBA back with less nonsense and more bowling !!!
Hope I did not come across too strong but as you can tell, I do have a opinion.
So it is the womens fault that they lost their tour? What about their owner you dumbass.. He filed for bankrupcy. IT IS HIS FAULY NOT THE WOMENS! If your dead aginst it maybe you shouldnt bowl period. Whats the next thing out of your mouth? WOMEN RUIN LEAGUE BOWLING?!
--------------------
bowler257628@yahoo.com
Post by: bowler257628 on March 29, 2004, 09:00:15 PM
quote:
I am dead against it. The women screwed up their own tournament and why give them a chance to do it to the PBA. If they get in, they will probably want to change the lane conditions because they can not throw the ball hard enough to compete with the guys. Lets face it, the PWBA for the past few years did not have a very hard shot. How many of the women just dumped the ball and watched it hook. There are good women bowlers that probably could compete with the men. But they always try to do something cute which messes everything up. Good example is the announcers they had. Boy, what a pair. Also, another pet peeve of mine is that we allow the women to bowl in the ABC Nationals, but the Men are not allowed to join WIBC and we can not bowl in their national event. Where is the equity ???
My message to the Women, is to get their act together and get the PWBA back with less nonsense and more bowling !!!
Hope I did not come across too strong but as you can tell, I do have a opinion.
So it is the womens fault that they lost their tour? What about their owner you dumbass.. He filed for bankrupcy. IT IS HIS FAULY NOT THE WOMENS! If your dead aginst it maybe you shouldnt bowl period. Whats the next thing out of your mouth? WOMEN RUIN LEAGUE BOWLING?!
--------------------
bowler257628@yahoo.com
Post by: sdbowler on March 29, 2004, 09:39:53 PM
--------------------
I was drunkk in publick
Post by: Kid Jete on March 29, 2004, 09:48:50 PM
quote:
All i gotta say is look at the title of the Tour
PBA
Professional Bowling Assoc.
I regret to inform anyone who doesn't like this idea, that in the name of the PBA Tour, in not one spot does it say PMBA or such, so shut up and watch the ladies kick ass!!!
--------------------
Okay so how about this...
NBA - National Basketball Association
PGA - Professional Golfers Association
See anything about men in either of these? Nope. Now how about WNBA or LPGA? WOMEN'S National Basketball Association, LADIES Professional Golfer's Association. Point being none of the men's professional sports say anything about them being strictly for just men but that doesn't mean women should be allowed in them. If they let them in bowling that's fine I could care less. It's probably the only sport in America where they have even a slight chance of competing.
--------------------
STORM! DEXTER! CAN'T GO WRONG! THIS IS MY TOURNAMENT!
http://maddox.xmission.com/
Post by: bowler257628 on March 29, 2004, 10:20:08 PM
--------------------
bowler257628@yahoo.com
Post by: Stan on March 29, 2004, 10:21:35 PM
I think it would be better to try to get their tour back on track. I know there are problems and it will be hard, but I think that is their best bet. Bowling in the PBA is only a quick fix and then only for a select group of Women Professionals. Some folks said that bowling can be competitive for both men and women on a professional level. But c'mon, the women will not be able to open up the lanes as much as the men. This is no insult to the women, because some of them can, but like I said, only a select few. I believe after a while, many of the women that feel they are not competitive would just drop out of sight and here lies what I believe to be the problem. Where are they going to bowl and perfect their skills ?? They will be out of the sport and that is sad.
So like I said, and I have no solution, try to get the womens tour back on track and give ALL the women professionals a chance to live out their dreams and not just a select few.
I still have a problem with the ABC nationals/WIBC nationals (men and women participating) but that is a different topic.
Post by: mumzie on March 30, 2004, 12:11:34 PM
It's funny - either this rule has changed for last year... Because I lost the opportunity to bowl a team type event with a member who did not have the credentials required, because there was a regional 150 miles away from that tournament...
Not sure. I'll talk to some of the guys tonight and see if I can find out what's going on.
Post by: TECH SUPPORT on March 30, 2004, 01:06:34 PM
--------------------
IN SEARCH OF THE PERFECT TWINS
Post by: northface28 on March 30, 2004, 01:07:19 PM
--------------------
"One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures." -George W. Bush
Post by: mumzie on March 30, 2004, 01:11:06 PM
They can be really nasty, too!
Post by: janderson on March 30, 2004, 03:46:05 PM
quote:
it was more like ESPN screwed the PWBA
Yes, because you know we would all rather spend 9-12 hours a day watching overpaid "experts" analyze sports on SportsCenter than actually watching more sports events as they happen.
Right on, ESPN. Oh, by the way, could you also raise your prices while showing us less sports? Thanks.
--------------------
Kill the back row
Post by: dgacioch on March 30, 2004, 04:17:15 PM
Post by: Scolai on March 30, 2004, 07:03:20 PM
--------------------
NutIf horse racing is the sport of kings, then surely bowling is a very good sport as well.
Post by: Jeffrevs on April 01, 2004, 06:48:15 AM
quote:
Kimbo said "Sex". Now I'm hot and bothered.
--------------------
I just spit coffee on my screen !!
LOL........... Hey, Nut, ...she also said the following , which I'm surprised you did't noticequote:
Can a woman beat a man in a regional to make money? I believe (absolutely) that this is possible.
Jeff stands up...."Next please !
"Seriously....Kim, thanks for chiming in....always great to here "your" side.
--------------------
JEFF
Better....much better!
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on April 01, 2004, 10:44:37 AM
--------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: bass on April 01, 2004, 02:30:25 PM
1) Just how many women were there left on their National tour at the end on a consistent basis?(30,40,50+).
2) When you send them back to there hometown area and have them bowl in the regionals that are closest for them there impact on the field will be greatly reduced.
I'm not saying the women can't play because they definitely can.
But it will become a money issue like it all ready is for the regional guys.
Your not going to "barnstorm' around the country and make a living bowling regionals. You'll probably try and hit the ones with a bigger added prize fund or start bowling Megabucks tournaments when you get your amateur status back.
Most guys that bowl regionals do it for the competition because they already have day jobs.