Anyone watch the Badger show last night?  Let me first state that this not a slam on the young two hander who finished second.  I think the kid made a tremendous effort, and there aren't many guys who could execute they way he did while lofting as far down the lane. Having said that, this strategy brings up a huge problem that I would not like to deal with as a proprietor.  Part of the problem lies with being able to dull up the surfaces so much.  I have said for several years that we could deal with part of the lane break down problem if all balls had to be 4000 grit as a final finish.  Best solution would be to outlaw resin balls along with not allowing aggressive surface alterations.   

Its not that the guys are doing anything wrong or illegal.  The point is that we have allowed the equipment to become so strong that it alters the condition in a manner unintended.  It is sad that technology has allowed us to have lane machines that can put out challenging yet fair conditions, but the balls basically destroy that pattern so quickly.  Why bother owning a 38K lane machine when the balls blow the shot up in 20 minutes of practice.  Just mop a bunch of oil on the lane, because they blow a hole in it in no time.  Again, not a slam on the bowlers, and this has nothing to do with the scoring level.  A more competitive environment where your success is less dependent on the guy you cross behind would be good for the game. 

personally lane play strategy and lane breakdown is part of bowling competitively and always has been but...

there is an easy solution to this......put more volume down. it is a constant struggle between lane patterns and balls that can blow it up or overcome it or however you want to put it. take any pattern you want to put down and add 5 or 10mLs to it and the strongest super soakers will not blow it up for 10+ games in tournament play. yes it will be more expensive but thats the cost of "preserving the integrity" of bowling. i have seen this theory put into practice at individual tournaments and the pattern played true for the first 8-10 games. it was tough, people complained but the real shot makers still rose to the top.

Quote from: avabob on June 20, 2014, 10:30:34 AM

Its not that the guys are doing anything wrong or illegal.  The point is that we have allowed the equipment to become so strong that it alters the condition in a manner unintended.  It is sad that technology has allowed us to have lane machines that can put out challenging yet fair conditions, but the balls basically destroy that pattern so quickly.  Why bother owning a 38K lane machine when the balls blow the shot up in 20 minutes of practice.  Just mop a bunch of oil on the lane, because they blow a hole in it in no time.  Again, not a slam on the bowlers, and this has nothing to do with the scoring level.  A more competitive environment where your success is less dependent on the guy you cross behind would be good for the game. 

personally lane play strategy and lane breakdown is part of bowling competitively and always has been but...

there is an easy solution to this......put more volume down. it is a constant struggle between lane patterns and balls that can blow it up or overcome it or however you want to put it. take any pattern you want to put down and add 5 or 10mLs to it and the strongest super soakers will not blow it up for 10+ games in tournament play. yes it will be more expensive but thats the cost of "preserving the integrity" of bowling. i have seen this theory put into practice at individual tournaments and the pattern played true for the first 8-10 games. it was tough, people complained but the real shot makers still rose to the top.

More volume? More surface. Ive had the honor to practice with some of the better collegiate players in the country and its nothing for them to get a 220 grit pad, lean on a ball and blow up a spot on the lane.

more surface? more volume. like i said its a constant struggle between lane oils and bowling ball technology. i have also bowled with very good collegiate bowlers and know what the elite players are capable of if needed. i dont know exact numbers that are needed to combat the problem people seem to have with balls breaking down patterns but when less than a shot of alcohol of lane oil is needed to make a heavy oil ball skate for 60ft i find it hard to believe it cant easily be done.  like i said i have no problem with lane play strategy and pattern breakdown im just trying to play devils advocate but bowl on a 42' pattern with 35mL of volume and it will hold up for a while. if 35mLs isnt enough go to 40 or 45mLs. there will be a point where the 180 grit super covers wont be able to breakdown a pattern in a game or two. people just have to be willing to spend however much in extra oil to oil the lanes

Now you're going in circles. You start pulling this crap, left handers are locked out, they won't show up. Low rev players, they're staying home. Tweeners, no chance, they're staying home. The older players (seniors) who seem to be beating the drum the loudest for using more oil, they won't hit the headpin. Hell, in regular league play, these old farts plead and beg for more oil, over wall them and give them their wish? They wash out every other frame. The only real answer is do what you do best, hooking it, throwing it straight, etc, just repeat shots and stop crying or looking for ways to bring someone down to your skill level or scoring pace.

 The older players (seniors) who seem to be beating the drum the loudest for using more oil, they won't hit the headpin. Hell, in regular league play, these old farts plead and beg for more oil, over wall them and give them their wish? They wash out every other frame.

My suggestion to you: Why don't you ask your Center to put the condition used for Seniors out for your League. Do it for a month and lets see the reaction from your league bowlers!

After reading all of this comment on the Badger show.I want to say my 2 cents worth.
 It was great to see a new bowler do so well! But old school still won. Did you get that rocket to the pocket won !!!
 I bowl with seniors they want more oil because they have slowed down because of age and would love to use stronger new balls. But they cannot and guess what someday each of you will be there and want more oil.Come play with the seniors they use plastic, rubber, 25 year old urethane or any thing else they have from the past. Yes they play 2nd arrow and down the middle and any where else the have to the get to the pocket. And the pattern breaks down different every day depends on who you bowl. Know why? Because they are old school backup balls full rollers suitcase releases they have it all. Years ago I complained to my older partner about how the mixed league bowlers messed up my shot. He said to me. YOU ARE A SCRATCH BOWLER SO SHUT UP AND BOWL! I wanted a change so I joined a travel league lots of different houses. Different lanes different ths and different bowlers all men
young, old,short and tall they all compete don't complain to much and they all are trying to learn how to bowl better. Guys try to embrace change, respect those who have come before us and above all have fun make your self a better bowler. Last Thursday night I bowled on a  men's trio 4 game summer league and my team left 7 7-10 splits.
I had 3 of them but we pressed on and won all 4 games as the other team was playing on the same pair same conditions. Who would have thought both teams struggled. That said lets bowl. Only time I see lots of oil is nationals. Bowled in 14 different houses last year.

I have to chuckle reading some of the comments about the old geezers, since I am one of them.  I won a couple of senior tourneys on higher volume 47 ft patterns a year or so ago.  Averaged about 225 doing it.  Another one I averaged 230, and didn't lead the qualifying.  Funny thing was I was talking to a very good young regional player after one of them, and he joked that it was a good thing the kids weren't bowling, because they would have blown up the pattern so bad nobody could hit it.  He was not far from the truth. 

As I said in a previous post, none of my comments are sour grapes.  I have had more success as a senior than I could have ever dreamed. At my age their is no pattern that I could compete with the kids on, and there shouldn't be.  I just feel that technology caused some problems that detract from the physical integrity ( not scoring ) of the game.  New lane machine technology has given us a chance to control some of it, and oils have helped.  I just think it is too bad that we cant make minor adjustments to ball surfaces to make the patterns hold up a bit better, and not allow guys to just snow plow a shot in any way they want.  Imagine in golf if the pros had balls that allowed them to make any green play slow, no matter how much they tried to toughen them up.  How long do you think those balls would last.       

Jorge300, I believe he said imagine....

Lanes change.  Yes.  But to intentionally affect the outcome by using a ball in practice that you would never use in competition is less than sporting.  Whether it is Valenta, Duke or Daugherty, it is less than ethical regardless of what the rules say.