Post by: Scolai on March 18, 2009, 05:10:07 AM
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ScolaÃ
"Get all the fools on your side, and you can be elected to anything." ~Frank Dane
Weighting On 40 (http://"http://www.weightingon40.com") - Weight Reduction for the Thirty-something Crowd - and Beyond!
Post by: abrown on March 18, 2009, 01:17:30 PM
Post by: Pinbuster on March 18, 2009, 01:20:01 PM
But when the organization is hemorrhaging money it is hard for them to turn away all the donators.
I remember a few years back at the US Open (not a PBA run event but a major) that a couple guys showed up and bowled using house shoes and balls. Ended up averaging around 130 if I remember, I’m sure it was a joy to cross with them.
The majority of bowlers I see posting on here seem to feel the opposite that the fields should be wide open every week without a TQR.
But I know of no other sport where you can simply plunk down your money and participate on the largest stage available.
Why would anyone come to watch the qualifying rounds if the field was filled with house hacks? What does that say about the PBA’s view of their product and quality of it?
Post by: joegunn on March 18, 2009, 01:22:46 PM
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=1579&suffix=2886
Post by: Phoneman on March 18, 2009, 01:30:47 PM
Post by: Scolai on March 18, 2009, 01:32:27 PM
I earned my PBA card in 2004. In my house league I was averaging 213, which was enough at the time to qualify me for PBA membership. I didn't enter my first PBA regional event until I cashed as an amateur (no handicap) in a PBA Pro/Am. Even after bowling - and cashing - in my first PBA event, I didn't apply immediately for my card. It wasn't until I cashed in my second PBA event that I filled out the paperwork for PBA membership.
Having a cash-first rule for members will greatly reduce the number of house hacks who average 220 on the great wall their house puts down but can't hit the same spot on the lane twice in the same game. More to the point, it will prevent embarassments like aforementioned "professional" who entered a tournament that he hasn't the talent or skill to be in.
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ScolaÃ
"Get all the fools on your side, and you can be elected to anything." ~Frank Dane
Weighting On 40 (http://"http://www.weightingon40.com") - Weight Reduction for the Thirty-something Crowd - and Beyond!
Post by: Phoneman on March 18, 2009, 01:37:09 PM
I agree with your approach on what you did to get a card and how you went about using it. Just because you have a PBA card does not mean anything any more just a reduced entry fee.
Post by: los2003 on March 18, 2009, 01:56:00 PM
Post by: los2003 on March 18, 2009, 02:16:38 PM
Post by: nospareball on March 18, 2009, 02:32:11 PM
I'm not sure why we should feel threatened by him. If he want's to pay, let him. If anything this should boost the credibility of the sport at the highest level. If a bowler averaging 200+ on a house shot does this bad at a national event, then the top guys really are miles ahead of the average house bowler.
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-Clint
Edited on 3/18/2009 2:32 PM
Edited on 3/18/2009 2:33 PM
Post by: taylors23 on March 18, 2009, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: J_w73 on March 18, 2009, 03:00:11 PM
quote:
JoeGunn sees my point. I'm all for PBA members spending their money on a TQR. My issue stems from the fact that a guy who can't even shoot a single game at par (200) on PBA patterns somehow acquired a PBA membership card.
I earned my PBA card in 2004. In my house league I was averaging 213, which was enough at the time to qualify me for PBA membership. I didn't enter my first PBA regional event until I cashed as an amateur (no handicap) in a PBA Pro/Am. Even after bowling - and cashing - in my first PBA event, I didn't apply immediately for my card. It wasn't until I cashed in my second PBA event that I filled out the paperwork for PBA membership.
Having a cash-first rule for members will greatly reduce the number of house hacks who average 220 on the great wall their house puts down but can't hit the same spot on the lane twice in the same game. More to the point, it will prevent embarassments like aforementioned "professional" who entered a tournament that he hasn't the talent or skill to be in.
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ScolaÃ)O(
"Get all the fools on your side, and you can be elected to anything." ~Frank Dane
Weighting On 40 (http://"http://www.weightingon40.com") - Weight Reduction for the Thirty-something Crowd - and Beyond!
You don't have to be a PBA member to bowl the PBA regional events??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: storm making it rain on March 18, 2009, 06:21:22 PM
quote:
Professional bowling should be like any other professional sport. You don't get to play Baseball or Football, or Hockey at the professional level until you show that you're good enough to compete with the big boys. 208 on a THS is NOT good enough to compete with the best in the world.
Post by: Scolai on March 18, 2009, 09:50:49 PM
I don't give two sh**s about him bowling in the TQR. I DO care about the fact that he's an embarrassment to the PBA for bowling as a "professional". If he had a little asterisk next to his name, this thread wouldn't exist.
The PBA is so desperate for paying members that they might as well include PBA cards in bags of nachos.
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ScolaÃ
"Get all the fools on your side, and you can be elected to anything." ~Frank Dane
Weighting On 40 (http://"http://www.weightingon40.com") - Weight Reduction for the Thirty-something Crowd - and Beyond!
Post by: Mike Austin on March 19, 2009, 12:35:14 AM
quote:
Some of you are missing the point. The point is, the guy shouldn't have a card. Period. He's obviously lacking the skills that define what a professional bowler is.
I don't give two sh**s about him bowling in the TQR. I DO care about the fact that he's an embarrassment to the PBA for bowling as a "professional". If he had a little asterisk next to his name, this thread wouldn't exist.
The PBA is so desperate for paying members that they might as well include PBA cards in bags of nachos.
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ScolaÃ)O(
"Get all the fools on your side, and you can be elected to anything." ~Frank Dane
Weighting On 40 (http://"http://www.weightingon40.com") - Weight Reduction for the Thirty-something Crowd - and Beyond!
Scolai',
While agree with you in principle, it should be tougher to be a PBA Member. The reality is, the PBA needs those guys' dues moneys.
At least he shoed up and bowled. House hack or not, I respect him more than the many people that are PBA "Members" and never bowl ANY regionals our TQR's. There are a number of people that are members only so they can get cheap equipment and cheap practice. The money they save on these items offsets the membership dues. I just think THIS is wrong.
Edited on 3/19/2009 0:36 AM
Post by: JessN16 on March 19, 2009, 01:01:35 AM
I don't think it becomes a problem unless you've got some of these guys getting through to later rounds in tournaments and lucking into wins or TV appearances. And fortunately, most tournament formats are long enough to prevent that.
Bowling isn't alone in this. NASCAR (debate about whether it's a sport or not is another thread) has this same thing happen from time to time in all three of their top national series, with guys in their 60s (even 70s) or teams that don't even have pit crews for race day out there, and some of them actually qualify for televised events.
People are generally more savvy than we give them credit for. Given the opportunity to judge each bowler's (or racer's) talent, they'll know who the pretenders are.
Jess
Post by: Dan Belcher on March 19, 2009, 07:18:22 AM
quote:But the real question is... does anybody care? Does anybody at all outside this forum care if someone is an "embarrassment?" 99.99% of people will never have even noticed him or have heard of him, and if they do see his crappy scores, they won't care.
I DO care about the fact that he's an embarrassment to the PBA for bowling as a "professional".
Post by: Scolai on March 19, 2009, 07:47:12 AM
If the PBA implemented a cash-first rule before handing out a PBA card then they would actually make money off the amateur's repeated attempts to cash in a regional while paying the higher entry fee - and the rule would actually add to the respectability of the PBA member. As it is, my telling someone I have a PBA card doesn't carry much weight. Millions of bowlers carry an average that qualifies them for PBA membership, and they all know it. PBA members like me, who actually earned their card by cashing in more than 1 PBA event, get no respect because thousands of other 'professionals' just averaged 200 for 66 games on a THS.
Credibility goes right out the window. Which professional would you rather have giving you advice? Me or Mr. Cadoo, Jr.? When I put myself out there for coaching as a PBA member, I'd like to think that my card has some substance. Mr. Cadoo, Jr. (and many like him) just tosses that possibility into the street.
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ScolaÃ
"Get all the fools on your side, and you can be elected to anything." ~Frank Dane
Weighting On 40 (http://"http://www.weightingon40.com") - Weight Reduction for the Thirty-something Crowd - and Beyond!
Post by: on March 19, 2009, 05:03:57 PM
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Up the boards baby!
Post by: trash heap on March 19, 2009, 08:51:58 PM
They (The PBA) dangle that PBA card in front of all these league bowlers. And face it there are some benefits, discounts on equipment and bowling. And for some....bragging about being a professional.
Biggest cost is anyone in the public seeing a score like that. It really doesn't help the PBA with image of the best. We have a sort of an understanding. Someone outside of bowling seeing a score like that says "I bowled a 160 last week with a house ball!, I can beat him!".
Post by: Hogsharley on March 19, 2009, 10:22:13 PM
He finished with only one game over 200 and a 167 average. The bowls in 3 leagues with 2 of them having just over a 200 average. Oh yeah. The PBA took his money for next weeks Long Island stop too.
http://www.pba.com/livescoring/Qual_Ind_Results.aspx?ContactId=35315&tournamentId=1586
http://www.ligbtour.com/ligbtour/displayMember.cfm?currentMember=128
Here's a pic^^^
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Hogsharley on March 19, 2009, 10:39:44 PM
quote:
Is it your money? No, then STFU about it. You f-ing people on this site always have something to b!tch about, it's worse than listening to the old ladies at a bingo hall.
Then go back to the bingo hall and pick up one of the old bitties. You can b_tch to each other.
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Mike Austin on March 20, 2009, 01:31:11 AM
quote:quote:
Then go back to the bingo hall and pick up one of the old bitties. You can b_tch to each other.
I stopped going because your mom wouldn't stop hitting on me. I told her to start bowling and join the PBA, they'll take her money.
OOOOOhh Sleepy went to the "your mom" card!! Grow up, what are you, 12??
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post by: trash heap on March 20, 2009, 10:35:10 AM
Post by: Jorge300 on March 20, 2009, 01:35:33 PM
There was someone who finsihed worse then he did.
Now for some serious input: This guy isn't at fault for anything. The PBA inadvertently cheapened their own membership when they went to an exempt tour. They are saying these 64 people are the "real" pros and the rest of you are just like this guy basically. Now real bowlers understand the difference between those who just missed the cutline, those that bowl PBA regionals every weekend and are a threat to win, those that bowl a few PBA Regionals here and there and the people who have their cards for other reasons. As Mr. Austin said, at least this guy went out and tried. Stop whining about him. The people who might ask you for coaching Scolai, aren't going to be looking at the TQR qualifying, see these scores at the bottom of the list and change their mind.
There are many reasons to and not to join the PBA. I have thought about joining for a little while now. Under the standard package the savings from the non-menber to member entry fee in the 3 regionals you are allowed basically pays for the yearly membership by itself. I have resisited because along with that comes the "stigma" ( not the right word which is why I have it quotes, not sure what the right word is) of being a pro. You are not allowed to enter some local tournaments anymore, you are forced into a different division in tournaments like the BJI at nationals, you are limited on who can bowl on your team and be your doubles partner in most State tournaments and at Nationals. All because you have a little card with your name on it.
So let's stop whining over this guy, the real answer isn't where Scolai is coming from and it isn't where nospareball is coming from, as usual it's somewhere in the middle.
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Jorge300
Post by: mxbowler95 on March 20, 2009, 01:53:39 PM
Post by: Jorge300 on March 20, 2009, 02:38:14 PM
quote:
I personally believe a lot of these bowlers that have pro cards shouldn't. I bowled the TQR this weekend. I am 17 and figured it was worth the experience and a good warm up for Jr. Gold. I had two really bad games that I just was off on my strike balls that kept me from cashing. I ended up in the top half of the field though and averaged 195. I thought this was pretty good for myself, even though it was below what I expected. I saw a lot of the bowlers that were "pros" bowl a lot worse than me. I do not get how these people had pro cards. They were struggling to hit 180 games. Even some of these guys that were in the 170s for an average were being helped out by exempt players. I know a couple of the people that were near the bottom of the list, but they were proud of how they bowled. I do not get how you can be proud of bowling that low and say this to a 17 year old that beat them. These people are like most of the people at houses around my area though. There are a few people that have pro cards just so they can say they have them. These people can't beat me to save their lives when there is sport shot out there, but they can go shoot 220+ on house shot. It is bad that so many of these people have pro cards and can walk around saying that they are a pro. There should be a point system that you earn as an amateur. Once you hit a certain amount of points, then you can get a pro card. This means you actually have to bowl in the TQRs and place pretty good. The points would have to expire though after a year or two so you don't have people bowling in TQRs for 10 years to get the points needed for the card.
Great bowling, keep up the good work!
Now as far as the rest, you aren't thinking big picture. I live in TX we have no tour stops here, it is not economically feasible for me to travel to bowl 2-3 TQR's to get points toget my pro card. With the small number of Tour stops and TQR's this won't work. Even if you throw in the Regional tournaments, I still think this is a bad idea, but then it would be much more feasible for a larger audience. Unfortunately, I think your youth is showing a little in this idea. Also to rail on someone who said they were proud of how they bowled just because they are older then you and happen to have a PBA membership is very immature. So they have never been as good as you, does that mean they can't be proud of their achievement for that tournament??? I appreciate your thoughts and your efforts, but you need to grow up a bit.
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Jorge300
Post by: mxbowler95 on March 20, 2009, 04:33:19 PM
Also, I know people around here that have a pro card, but will never even think about bowling a regional or TQR, but they are the ones running around telling people they are pros.
And with the point system, I was just giving an example. It is an idea that came from my other sport, motocross. In there, they have designated races that are all around the country and you need 60 points to be able to get a pro card. For bowling, they could use the TQRs, the Regionals, and other select tournaments that are around the country so everyone can get the points. These tournaments would have to be on sport shot too. I just think that this idea will keep the 220 house bowlers for just getting their cards to say they have one because they won't travel any distance to go to a tournament that wasn't going to be on house shot. So this would seperate the real bowlers from the house bowlers.
Post by: NoseofRI on March 20, 2009, 04:54:59 PM