Post by: J_w73 on November 02, 2009, 06:31:51 AM
Don''t know what it was for sure but while watching I just wasn''t into it.
1)Was it the fact that it wasn''t live? Even though I didn''t see anything online about who won the matches the fact that it was taped took something away from it for me.. should it ? Not really cause everything looked the same and if I didn''t know that it was taped It would have been just like last year.. but something was different..
2)Was it the fact these guys were putting up 180 games..YES!!!
I know that the PBA conditions are tough.. I have bowled on them.. And I heard them say that the players are saying that the conditions are tweaked just a enough to make them that much tougher this year....guess what PBA... tough conditions don''t translate on TV.. If they don''t translate that well to me then they don''t translate at all to someone that is just watching and doesn''t know much about bowling...all it does is just make people think the pros aren''t that good.. or "these guys suck" as was said by my girlfriend..Then came the "you are better than these guys".. and then me correcting her "not even close".. then the explanation of why the scores are so low..
People dont'' want to watch TO drop passes all day
... and don''t want to see Tommy Jones leaving washouts and splits. PBA.. make the patterns tough to get to the finals.. come tv time.. ease up a little and let these guys roll...
a strikefest is more exciting to the average fan.. and still has the drama and pressure built in.. baseball purists dont'' mind a 0-0 pitcher''s duel but the other 3 million fans want a homerun derby....same thing goes with bowling..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 11/2/2009 3:38 PM
Post by: Juggernaut on November 02, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
Nowdays, nobody wants to see "hard" bowling. Most of us, myself included, have become used to a high scoring environment and are not enthused with "shot making" and execution, only scores.
Knowing that it was tape delayed seemed to take something out of it for me as well. Bowling, and the mindset towards it, has changed so drastically since the advent of high performance equipment. People who bowl a lot tend to know the difference, but like your girlfriend, most others have no idea and have no interest in watching "guys who suck", and don't have time for an explanation of why.
Great analogy using the home run derby reference. I like watching bowlers bowl on tough conditions ( like purists love a 1-0 pitchers duel), but most people DO prefer the home run derby.
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Good transactions list in my profile
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Post by: defwu3 on November 02, 2009, 02:45:46 PM
Post by: J_w73 on November 02, 2009, 03:21:59 PM
quote:
i disagree with your post about not being interested in seeing the pro''s shoot bad scores, i actually like seeing this happen, i do agree that it is not good for the sport or the tv ratings. any casual bowler who doesnt know about oil patterns or their difficulty, and watching pros struggle on tv thinks that they can go down to their local center and throw a house ball up the middle and shoot 200 and beat the pros, it''s ridiculous. it could have been just a bad week also it happens to even the best of professionals, give it time.
I''m in the middle.. because I know it is tough I can understand what is going on and still enjoy it.. but come on.. is it really fun to watch tommy jones go over under trying to figure out the pattern while he shoots 169...
my post was sort of what the PBA needed to do to make it work and maybe be here for years to come...and you agree that almost 3 games under 180 isn''t good for tv ratings..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 11/2/2009 4:24 PM
Post by: BrianCRX90 on November 02, 2009, 03:58:46 PM
I was so disappointed in the direction that the PBA took this season, I stopped putting the show on DVD and formally VHS. I was an avid collector and had recorded myself 98% of the PBA shows since 2001, was collecting and trading older shows. Now with youtube and ESPN Classic showing older shows, secret trading has become obsolete. Of course I have some shows that you can''t find on youtube or ESPN classic such as some USA, NBC and FOX telecasts but I decided after learning 1/4 of the season was going to be taped delayed, was it really worth seeing a second time?
Proved myself right with yesterday''s show. It was tape delayed and the worst part? IT LOOKED LIKE IT. Horrible editing, same silly theme song gimmics, same half asked unprofessional moments on tv that look like a charity event and same announcers that sound worse. At first I couldn''t remember if this was a sanctioned PBA event or Rolls to Riches or King of the Hill. Good and bad? Well, the title match was exciting. I also like Pederson''s inside tips. Bad? Rob Stone and is unexusable lack of knowledge of the game at this point in his career. Wow, I was watching some late 80''s/early 90''s summer events with Shriener and Durbin and Denny Shriener was a man who did bowl, knew about the game and had a great voice and good chemistry with Durbin. He also asked questions with Durbin and much interaction. We have none of that with Stone and Pederson. Both of these guys have to go. The bad also? The ridiculous theme music in between the frames for the bowlers. Cheesy and unprofessional.
Indecisive about having a bowler miced up during a match giving out information. I would think it would be distracting to the other bowler not to mention the bowler itself but I guess it''s that bowlers decision.
The worst part though is how they editied the frames and fast forwarded through the events. Thanks for that.
Edited on 11/2/2009 5:00 PM
Post by: Juggernaut on November 02, 2009, 04:04:35 PM
More like "what happened a couple of months ago".
Jeeeeez guys, if your going to make us watch it in tape delay, at least let us watch the entire match. It isn't like you couldn't edit it that way.
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Good transactions list in my profile
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Post by: tonybowls on November 02, 2009, 06:08:20 PM
Post by: Spider Man on November 03, 2009, 06:52:02 AM
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A penny saved is a government "overcite"
Imagine Whirled Peas
Edited on 11/3/2009 7:52 AM
Post by: mainzer on November 03, 2009, 07:22:57 AM
I really dont care that they are taped.
but this is just my opinioin
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"The lives of individuals are fleeting
ephemeral things, lost amid the unforgiving
bloddy tides of history"
-Night Nemiel of the Order-
Founding Father of the BR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Post by: Stickythumbhole on November 03, 2009, 08:38:13 AM
Post by: J_w73 on November 03, 2009, 08:53:45 AM
quote:
What I surmised from this show is that Walter Ray is the greatest ever(In My Opinion) and that Chris Barnes is the best bowler right now. His ability to play 2 different lines in the same match was brilliant.
agreed... Walter Ray can make that outside line work on any condition..
and Barnes Is Mr Versatility...!
Maybe the show showed just how much better Walter Ray and Barnes are compared to Oneil, Jones, and PDW.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on November 03, 2009, 09:00:25 AM
quote:
I have no issue with them shooting low scores, The conditions are tough and I don't find carry contests fun to watch if wanna see that I will go to a local handicap tourney and watch. I like to see them work for what they get.
I really dont care that they are taped.
but this is just my opinioin
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"The lives of individuals are fleeting
ephemeral things, lost amid the unforgiving
bloddy tides of history"
-Night Nemiel of the Order-
Founding Father of the BR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Do you agree for the average fan or someone that doesn't know anything about bowling this is not what they want to see...?? Most of the people that are watching the telecast are bowling geeks... and that isn't good for the PBA. There isn't enough of us to make it worth their while. What the PBA needs is a "Tiger Woods" for the sport. Someone that is just amazingly good with great charisma. PBA wants it to be Bellmonte but it isn't..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on November 03, 2009, 10:14:15 AM
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http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Dave_in_Rio_Rancho on November 03, 2009, 10:17:19 AM
If the next group of investors decide to go for entertainment hope they buy into the Japanese P League franchise and stop trying to re-invent the wheel.
Guys bowling badly, not good TV, cute gals bowling well - sign us up
It has been pointed out many times, but the gals on the Professional Billiards Tour get better ratings than the guys.
If you are basing ratings on guys, they had better look exceptional to the average person or....................
Edited on 11/3/2009 6:58 PM
Post by: J_w73 on November 03, 2009, 11:38:41 AM
quote:
I didn''t like the "while we were gone at commercial" thing either. Also the 2-3 second music clips after each shot was not needed.
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http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
The music is annoying between shots when you hear it in the background on tv..
When you are at the tournament it actually kinda adds to the show a bit because you don''t have any commentators to listen to between shots.. Looks like the PBA doesn''t know whether or not they want it to be "included" in the telecast as a few times I have heard it actually mic''d for broadcast and other times it is just in the background..
The away at commerical thing irked me too... just cause you know it isn''t true.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 11/3/2009 12:42 PM
Post by: J_w73 on November 03, 2009, 11:44:48 AM
quote:
maybe it was my bias towards taped shows, but Randy and Stoner seemed flat. and when they forced excitement it just fell flat.
--------------------
A penny saved is a government "overcite"
Imagine Whirled Peas
Edited on 11/3/2009 7:52 AM
They were really there and commentating when they were actually bowling the finals right.. ???They didn't bowl the finals and then put the commentating in after did they ??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Spider Man on November 03, 2009, 12:01:44 PM
quote:
maybe it was my bias towards taped shows, but Randy and Stoner seemed flat. and when they forced excitement it just fell flat.
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quote:
They were really there and commentating when they were actually bowling the finals right.. ???They didn't bowl the finals and then put the commentating in after did they ??
Yes, but they knew they weren't broadcasting to a live audience - just some production people.
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A penny saved is a government "overcite"
Imagine Whirled Peas
Post by: J_w73 on November 03, 2009, 12:16:40 PM
quote:quote:
maybe it was my bias towards taped shows, but Randy and Stoner seemed flat. and when they forced excitement it just fell flat.
--------------------quote:
They were really there and commentating when they were actually bowling the finals right.. ???They didn't bowl the finals and then put the commentating in after did they ??
Yes, but they knew they weren't broadcasting to a live audience - just some production people.
--------------------
A penny saved is a government "overcite"
Imagine Whirled Peas
got it.. yes.. I agree there was something different and "staged" about their speech
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: BrunsMike on November 03, 2009, 12:22:48 PM
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Mike Zadler
"When in doubt, Pull out" - Rob Stone
Below, my stats from previous seasons:
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=552&suffix=12886
Post by: BrianCRX90 on November 03, 2009, 04:03:05 PM
Please tell me what the "magical scores" are supposed to be?
Personally, I love low scores because there is more stratagy involved but I also occasionally like seeing high scores on tv. But really I don't care. I'm there to watch the sport reguardless!
Post by: scotts33 on November 03, 2009, 04:04:20 PM
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Scott
Post by: charlest on November 03, 2009, 05:17:32 PM
On your house shot, he is absent. On the tour, on the TV, he was present. Tell your girl friend that. If she doesn't know the SPORT of BOWLING that the PBA "engages in" and only knows the game of bowling we/you "play" on the THS, sorry.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on November 03, 2009, 05:23:34 PM
The crap of Randy's handing out hints can go in the garbage! I'd rather see the bowling. That'swhy I tuned in!!! If we need bowling hints, we'll seek out a real coach. That was aimed at some intermediate bowlers, while the show is aimed at the 120 average bowler to be entertained.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Dave_in_Rio_Rancho on November 03, 2009, 06:10:37 PM
That is how I "fear" the PBA may be perceived. They claim they are trying to spread the sport to non-bowling fans and honor the history of the sport. They need to show how and why these guys are good.
Perhaps they should televise some ProAm events?
When we watched Wide World of Sports they showed us professionals at their craft - I really miss that in current US broadcasting of the events. If nothing else there is almost no context or information of the consequences good and bad of how the bowlers are doing.
Post by: DON DRAPER on November 03, 2009, 09:14:57 PM
Post by: sirius on November 04, 2009, 01:33:00 AM
Post by: DON DRAPER on November 04, 2009, 09:36:02 PM
Post by: BrianCRX90 on November 05, 2009, 10:59:27 AM
Post by: jimc on November 05, 2009, 11:37:08 AM
The high score/low score debate has gone on for years and will continue forever until they find a happy medium. As a bowler, I find it interesting to watch to pros search for a look, but to get ratings, your home run derby analogy is probably right on. I would say make the majors tough, and explain why on the telecast, but otherwise let 'em strike.
I also thought the announcing last week was lame, almost like they added it after the competition and the announcers knew who won. This Sunday's Cheetah telecast may make or break the entire season. The reality style being advertised makes me nervous. I fear that we won't see much actual bowling, but will see lots of interviews and player profiles. I'm hoping for the best, but think it may drag down ratings even further if we don't get to see enough bowling.
Post by: stopncrank on November 05, 2009, 12:11:03 PM
Rob Stone really must go, im sorry he is probably a great guy but after putting up with Stone this long i'd take Dave Ryan back in a hurry! But, i really would like to see Marshall Holman back in the booth, i thought he did an excellent job with the women's series a couple months back. Gone are the good ole days of BO Burton and Chris Schenkle, man those were good shows.
Or they could invite a current exempt player every week to work with Randy. I think Randy would be much better if he actually had someone who knew something about bowling working with him. Right now as bad as it sounds Randy has to carry the telecast.
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: J_w73 on November 05, 2009, 02:51:05 PM
quote:
i agree for the most part with the comments so far. i like the idea of having a house shot tournament like last year, and to make it more interesting they should invite the bowler with the highest league average in the host house a free entry to show how they fare against the pro's every week. or maybe even do that at every stop.
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Pretty good idea.. If they get the common guy involved and give him a chance to win it may be entertaining.. if they actually win it would be a great story for bowling and may boost the sport.. kinda like the Chis Moneymaker effect and poker (not that poker is a sport)
To take another page from the poker world.. They should do some sort of nationwide qualifying tournament.. or satellite tournaments that can win you a chance to compete in a PBA tournament.. its kind of gimmicky but it might bring some awareness to the sport if you give every league bowler a chance to bowl for a PBA title..Not for every tournament.. but just one special one.. maybe in conjunction with the house shot tourney that was spoken about...
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Spider Man on November 05, 2009, 02:59:04 PM
quote:quote:
i agree for the most part with the comments so far. i like the idea of having a house shot tournament like last year, and to make it more interesting they should invite the bowler with the highest league average in the host house a free entry to show how they fare against the pro's every week. or maybe even do that at every stop.
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!Quote
Pretty good idea.. If they get the common guy involved and give him a chance to win it may be entertaining.. if they actually win it would be a great story for bowling and may boost the sport.. kinda like the Chis Moneymaker effect and poker (not that poker is a sport)
Yeah, I could see that raising interest, maybe by making some national news outlets. But it could also take a spot from a pro.
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A penny saved is a government "overcite"
Imagine Whirled Peas
Post by: BrianCRX90 on November 05, 2009, 03:43:30 PM
I think this could be the future of the PBA if the pins are done correctly. You can place any oil pattern you want out there but the problem is you can''t see oil and that is what many fans and casual viewers don''t understand and somewhat agree with. One or two sponsers the PBA could get could be delegated to the cost of the pins for the PBA.
So with this when your watching a future telecast and see these odd shaped or odd colored looking pins it will automatically let people know a distinct difference between USBC bowling and PBA bowling.
Edited on 11/5/2009 4:54 PM
Post by: Stickythumbhole on November 05, 2009, 07:05:06 PM
quote:
I''ve been advocating this for over 5 years now but in order for the PBA to gain the most respect possible from viewers is to look at the PINS iteself, not just the oil patterns or gimmicks formates needs to be looked at. I''ve always been fascinated with the idea of the PBA tour using thier own pins. The pins would could have a distinct color and even a PBA logo and unlike the good idea of the PBA 10 years ago using the heavier 5 pound gold pins for tv, I would like to see them used for the entire tournament. Not just making them heavier. They could have a different symmetric shape to it such as lowering the RG and may or may not have to change the weight. The material of the pin could also be changed. I''d like to see the pins carry on a much higher percentage for flushed shots and less light and high hits and the chances of splits to be left could be greater.
I think this could be the future of the PBA if the pins are done correctly. You can place any oil pattern you want out there but the problem is you can''t see oil and that is what many fans and casual viewers don''t understand and somewhat agree with. One or two sponsers the PBA could get could be delegated to the cost of the pins for the PBA.
You're kidding, right?
Post by: J_w73 on November 05, 2009, 09:12:17 PM
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Bill Thomas on November 06, 2009, 02:21:13 PM
Post by: J_w73 on November 06, 2009, 02:30:35 PM
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on November 13, 2009, 11:59:50 AM
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180