Post by: riggs on December 06, 2011, 12:20:58 AM
Some interesting stuff from Tom Clark in the web interview I link to in here:
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: Strokewiththelefthand on December 06, 2011, 10:16:14 AM
aka. Big Daddy Pink, Pink Pinkstofferson, Smooth as Asian Silk, Righty Complex, Big Daddy Wit Da Smooth Head.
I'm man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.
Whooooooo! Go time!
No excuses. Just bowl. High Score wins! Make the Adjustment!
Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.
Post by: Russell on December 06, 2011, 11:00:27 AM
PS....shorten your sig....it makes your posts unbearably long for no reason....and it's lame.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: LookingForALeftyWall on December 08, 2011, 08:19:48 AM
I thought of a way to possibly deter this without changing the rules for practice - at least for televised finals:
Have Rob Stone and Randy Peterson call the players out for doing this. And by calling them out, something to the effect of "Mika didn't think he had a prayer against the higher rev rate guys so he burnt up Rash's and Belmo's preferred line on this 45 ft pattern. Mika doesn't think he's got a shot at winning without ruining their line's...".
This could be effective. If guys are called out for doing it, I think you'll see less of it. A lot of these guys have huge egos and getting called an inferior player playing defense might set some guys off, forcing them to man up. Obviously it won't affect some guys who will try to win at any and all costs, even if that means a hit to their reputation. But I also think that the majority of guys/gals on tour would think twice before causing any harm to their image.
Post by: riggs on December 08, 2011, 08:38:43 AM
These guys are bowling for their living and it's not against the current rules. "Shame" will have ZERO impact.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: storm making it rain on December 08, 2011, 08:44:25 AM
LeftyWall,
While I don't like the practices of the players on burning up their opponents lines, I know that if I was bowling for a living and I needed to do this to make my paycheck I would without question.
What I'd like to see is them have a warmup pair for the players waiting to bowl, and then give them 2 balls on each lane like a lot of tournaments do. From my point of view these guys are the best of the best, they should have a game plan in place and be able to read the lanes within a few shots.
Do you really think Mika, or Belmo, or Rash really care if they get called out by anyone if they are walking out of the center with the title and first place check? I dont think so!!
Edited by storm making it rain on 12/8/2011 at 9:45 AM
Post by: Good Times Good Times on December 08, 2011, 08:54:44 AM
Why this point is SO difficult for some individuals to concede is beyond me......
GetOffMe10Pin
"America was established not to create wealth but to realize a vision, to realize an ideal - to discover and maintain liberty among men." - Woodrow WilsonPost by: LookingForALeftyWall on December 08, 2011, 09:30:33 AM
Riggs,
You hit the nail on the head: These guys bowl for a living...and thus earn some of their money from sponsors and some own their own pro shops (Bill O'Neil, Wes Malott, etc.). Tournament earnings are only a portion of their keep. Shaming can go a long way towards determining who can and will get that sponsorship money. Marketability does play into it for some players. Obviously, shaming doesn't mean squat to a guy that doesn't have to worry about selling equipment to others through their pro shop or worrying about getting that lumber liqidators commercial...however, on the higher end of the spectrum, the guys at top do have to worry about their rep. If I were the head of a bowling ball manufacturer and one of my sponsored guys was doing this, I would worry about the damage to the rep of the company...but hey, everyone is different in how they would react to this and I acknowledge that. Just my 2 cents...
Post by: riggs on December 08, 2011, 10:23:43 AM
Leftywall, this stuff has been going on for years and by pretty much all the players who make shows at one point or another. Mike Devaney makes these points in the PBA message boards and on my Facebook page. This is NOT an isolated incident and you can't use shame against anyone when EVERYONE is doing it.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: Russell on December 08, 2011, 12:08:56 PM
So I've asked this with no response in the past....it's not against the rules to cough in your opponent's backswing in golf, or walk across their line before they putt...yet it never happens. Why is this? Why is bowling creating this defensive element that doesn't exist in other major sports with similar structures? Helping yourself is one thing, but impeding your opponent's game is taking the game down a dark road.
We wonder why bowling is a punch line....
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: riggs on December 10, 2011, 04:09:08 AM
And the thing I have asked many times is how do you craft a rule that prevents defense that makes sense. Example -- you can't throw your plastic ball down the lane to mess up your opponents shot but how do you differentiate between practicing spare shots and messing up your opponents shots. It's almost impossible to craft such a rule.
Limited practice or using separate pairs is the only logical thing I can see.
Do you have a different idea?
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: Russell on December 10, 2011, 08:23:52 AM
Riggs I agree that is the only way to craft a rule....anything else would have to be subjective. Someone would have to "judge" whether a player was using malice in breaking down the pair.
What would be more productive is the players get together and agree to start abiding by a gentlemen's code, and making a rule unnecessary. That's why I compared it to golf....there are no rules against coughing and tap dancing on your opponent's putting line....but it never happens. There's a respect for the game and the competition that doesn't exist anymore in bowling. It would take the players to make that change.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Track_Fanatic on December 10, 2011, 11:05:41 AM
The comparison of bowling to golf has been brought up before and you cannot compare the two. The prize fund is completely different for one. It also can't be said that 'if bowlers had more etiquette that it would gain sponsors' If bowlers were to make the money that golfers do, I can understand the comparison. Golfers have always had prize funds that are astronomical compared to bowling. Coughing in the middle of a back swing wouldn't be playing defense. Sure, a golfer could intentionally walk in the golfers line and dig their cleats and move the green to change the line, but it's also not the same 'line' the other golfer would be lining up for most of the time to where bowling lanes are the same all the time and it's just how each bowler attacks them. Yes, there was the issue with the water bottle though. Still, it's a dead issue as far as the accuser and accused are concerned (at least thats what was said last Sunday) If a golfer could change the way a golf course plays(which is impossible) such as you can change the way a bowling alley can play, do you think they wouldn't? Bowlers are out there trying to survive and do something they love and have passion for. It's not like you can make a real living on tour with the prize fund they have as well as had back in the day.
Edited by Track_Fanatic on 12/10/2011 at 12:06 PM
Post by: Russell on December 10, 2011, 02:49:25 PM
Actually if you follow golf back to the 70s they made similar money to bowlers at that time. Yes they play for a lot more, but wouldn't that be even more reason to try and gain an advantage? Often the difference in 1st and 2nd is $500,000 or more. For a player who is on their rookie season that is life changing money. Why wouldn't that player disrupt their opponent to try and gain an advantage?
I just disagree...if a non bowler tuned into bowling and saw some of the story lines they might think that bowling was right there with wrestling. What the bowlers are doing to disrupt each other is as important during the show as what skill they possess.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Dave81644 on December 10, 2011, 04:16:52 PM
should be like most of the tournaments us house hacks enter
2 on each lane to keep it fair.
we don't get a warm up pair before nats, although we do get 10 min
Post by: tommyboy74 on December 10, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
This reminds me of the time when Bill O'Neill won the Viper title. In practice, he was throwing stuff sanded down to 360 and 500 grit to burn the oil up how he wanted. For him, it worked since he played further inside than everyone else compared to everyone else playing outside where he destroyed the lane in practice.
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Post by: completebowler on December 11, 2011, 02:27:19 AM
Yes it occurs all the time. That is why it should not be legislated against. Why is it now getting this attention? Who decided this week was the week to call Mika out and question his practice session? To question his sportsmanship?
As I said before, You would have to ban plastic as well as sanded. So banning balls (or grits) wouldn't be fair. Practicing on another pair is only going to make our pros look bad on TV. If they don't have a feel for the lanes they are bowling on and how they transition the scores will go down in a hurry which makes our elite players look worse. So I don't like that idea.
Also to that subject, I don't think the players themselves would like this. Most of the PBA patterns play very, very tight when perfectly fresh. Most of the guys on the show wouldn't have the look they had all week during qualifying. Again, scores would go down in a hurry. This, at a time when scores are exploding in league play, would lend itself to more dwindling of the PBA fan base I think. The players and the tour cannot be in favor of that.
In the end, it is a battle of wits and determination. I don't like Russell's analogy of extreme examples of what would be bad etiquette in golf. As one member stated...this is more akin to whether golfers would continually attack a course in a certain way in hopes that it would either get easier for themselves, or more difficult or their opponents. And the answer to that is of course they would.
This isn't an example of bad etiquitte like those examples in golf. This is an example of someone doing something to create a competitive advantage. Nobody is looking at the thought that maybe the pattern already gave Rash/Belmonte an advantage. And if Mika simply practiced his preferred line he would have burned his own spot and opened the lanes up more for those guys. If you thought this was going to be how the pattern moved would you have done differently than Mika?
Cause what happens when the lanes open up like that? We have all seen it in leagues. The high rev palyers start to get the adult bumper bowling look. Which forces tweeners to jump left and have to attack the pattern like the crankers do. Well guess who wins 9 out of 10 times in this scenario.
So Mika decided to make them play HIS part of the lane instead of vice-versa. I applaud his intelligent strategy. And I maintain that the crankers need to understand this and try to figure out their way around it...just like tweeners have had to do for years when moving left.
On a side note...both Rash and Belmonte seen what Mika was doing and decided to move right with dull stuff and try to open the lanes up. As noted in the Bill O'Neil anecdote...this is the preferred practice of crankers...they want that wall. But nobody is on here bitching that they go out there week in and week out and destroy Duke or WRW's preferred line. So why are we discussing the fact that "the golden boys" line got some traffic across it in practice?
Just let them do what they have always done.
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