Quote from: bowling4burgers on April 13, 2021, 04:43:56 PM

Overseas balls shouldn't be a thing in the first place. Sell them full production or limited release.

So when a distributor in Asia wants to order 1000 balls but wants them a different color the ball manufacturer should tell them no? 

Apparently so.. But then again, if the ball companies said no, we wouldn't have the revitalization of a lot of popular lines right now. For example, Japan kept the gas mask core (and the entire BW line) going after it ended in the US with the Jet Black Taboo. While we went on with the Absolut, Blood, and Bad Intentions lines, they stayed with the entire Taboo and Widow series. They are one of the reasons why the BW series is back.

I guess it isn't well known that they sold more Statements in S. Korea, as they released all 3 Statement balls there (solid, hybrid, and pearl) that were the same balls released in the US, then came out with another Statement solid, but with different colors (black, white, smoke).

And god forbid that the overseas distributors give the US any ideas; I mean, they had a Web Tour Edition Hybrid out almost 9 months before it got released in the US.. or that they had at least 3 of BWs out before we finally got an updated solid. Before the BW 2.0 came out, the last solid BW that was released was the Dark Legend Solid, which was a 5 year old ball.

So yeah.. we should have the ball companies say no to specific releases; that way we wouldn't have some series out today.. 

BL.

You could be right, but there's no way to be sure.  Ball companies love to recycle successful cores and they often re-release a "new" ball with different colors.  Was it because of the success in the over seas market, or a lack of originality with a little laziness/greed tossed in?

It was odd seeing the plugged balls since we know how many balls these guys drill every week.  It certainly would have been easier/faster to drill a new one than to wait for a ball to get plugged.

Maybe it's just the tour where pretty much everyone has a high rev rate and they want to be able to control their break point, but I'm completely bored watching another dull black or purple ball thrown up the outside of the lane.  Why have different oil patterns if everyone is going to play them the same way?  The Masters and US Open are supposed to be hard, so I get the urethane somewhat, but you're seeing them more and more every week.  All 24 guys were using them for the Open for the last block of match play.  Really?  Plus they talk about how much they chew up the front part of the lane (for the TV finals).  We see guys lose carry constantly.  I guess you can blame a little of it on the TV lights, but certainly not all of it.  How the heck do they make it work when a bunch of guys are throwing them for all 8 games.  Surely guys are following someone else who previously used urethane on the same lane.

It is kind of funny that when reactive came out, they were commonly referred to as "cheater balls" and "strikes in a box".  Now the players are reverting back to urethane and there are concerns that players are using them as a crutch to take some of the "work" out of bowling and to have a more reliable/consistent reaction.  We seem to have come full circle.  Reactive was bad, now going back to urethane is bad.

I agree that it is no fun watching pros throw urethane on TV.  Some of the matches have been really close, and that is kind of exciting, but overall it does get boring seeing most of the bowlers play similar lines with the urethane equipment.  It would be fun to see the PBA open up the lanes and put the heavier pins back in once in a while.  Give the players a chance to throw the stronger stuff.

I can't blame the ball companies for recycling old designs.  Once they have something that works, why not?  Reduces R&D costs and allows them to continue using tooling that is already paid for.  At the end of the day, there is only so much that can be designed in to a ball since the USBC sets limits on dynamics.  Why spend money designing a core that would end up having the same specs as one that is already proven? 

No matter the style - speed, rev rate, axis rotation/tilt, everyone pretty much plays the same line.  Kind of like when WRW threw the "red ball up 5" for what seemed like 2 years.  Never said it wasn't proper competition  - you throw what you think will knock down the most pins.  Still doesn't make for exciting viewing though.

I guess I just don’t understand why it’s boring to watch bowlers at a high skill level trying to figure out a way to knock more pins down than their opponent regardless of what angle or ball they choose to use but then again I don’t average 240 like the experts on this site

It isn't just this site, and that is no offense to anyone on this site.

What I mean is that it is the (western) bowling world in general. Most are used to now seeing big hooking balls or two hands being used to attack the pattern on the lanes with various angles. Seeing the ball that hooks or has the highest revs is what generates the excitement.


But when that has to be toned down and everyone throws the same line, that excitement is lost for the sake of consistency. It's that consistency and repeating the same thing over and over week after week (using the same line if it called for it) that got WRW, Liz Johnson, and others all those titles. It isn't the eye candy that did it, but the strategy and mental game needed to stay consistent.

That's why a lot of people (not on this site) get somewhat offended by bowlers out of Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, or mainland China, when they helicopter spin the ball. They think that it's the dumbest thing they've ever seen and is only done by people who average no more than 150 and/or are 12 years old. What they don't realize is the strategy behind it, which is to take the pattern completely out of play, and do what you are saying: find the best means to knock down the most pins possible.

I still get a wry laugh at the back of my head when people are dumbfounded when they see that Marshall Kent lost to a spinner at the QubicaAMF World Cup when it was in Hong Kong. It wasn't that Kent bowled bad; he hooked the hell out of the ball, but it was hard to stay consistent with the pattern on the lanes. The spinner's strategy worked, in taking the pattern completely out of play and floating over it, letting speed and deflection do the work for him.

Some people think it's boring, but it comes down to the mental game at that point and what one would do to find a way to score better than their opponent.

BL.

Quote from: Remmah on April 15, 2021, 05:51:16 PM

I guess I just don’t understand why it’s boring to watch bowlers at a high skill level trying to figure out a way to knock more pins down than their opponent regardless of what angle or ball they choose to use but then again I don’t average 240 like the experts on this site

No one is claiming to be an expert.  We are simply stating our own individual opinions.

The boredom for me with the PBA is that I am not, and will never be, a 2-hander.  Nor do I throw urethane.  That means for me I have no personal frame of reference to truly appreciate what is being done by those PBA bowlers.  The high-rev, high speed 2-handers are using urethane to control the lane.  The one-handed, medium rev players are using urethane to control the lane.  Ok, great.  Additionally, the PBA players make it seem like urethane is needed for 90% of the patterns they bowl on. 

Then I see guys at the local center trying to copy this approach on a THS, getting mad because it isn't working for them, and either throwing tantrums or complaining that they can't get urethane to work for them like it does for the guys on TV.  In the meantime, other bowlers on the pair are complaining that the people using urethane are "messing up their shot".  I am just sitting there thinking to myself "who cares!  find yourself a line, and just bowl."

I'm with you on this one. It's actually quite laughable when you see bowlers on a THS or even open play where they want to or try their hardest to be the next Belmo, Osku, Troup, etc. etc., and doesn't work for them. And their second solution to it is to throw harder and stronger, which also fails. This goes back to the aforementioned fallacy that bowling needs power, which it doesn't.

Then you see TV shows like the Clash where it is a higher scoring condition, and the players can actually throw reactive equipment.  The lanes break down and they struggle to keep up with the transition.  They are moving all over the place to control the pocket.  This I can relate to and appreciate more because it is more of what is seen on a league night with 8-10 bowlers on a pair.  I understand what they are trying to do and can potentially learn something while watching them.

I see you here. This is where the mental game comes in and trying to figure out that invisible enemy on the lanes. I was watching the King of TV Bowling channel last night, as he has a list of the 300s shot on TV, which one of them was Mike Miller (side note: damn, he looks a lot like his sister!). For that match, it was Miller vs. Wiseman vs. Tim Criss. And while Miller back then would be considered today's two-hander, and Wiseman being Wiseman, I was still more impressed with the read of the lanes that Criss had. Everyone forgot that he had a good streak of show appearances and title runs in the 90s because of how well he could control the land and his ball motion. I got more from that than the 300 alone.

I still watch all of the telecasts and fully support bowling on TV.  However, most of the time I end up falling asleep and having to rewind and watch the final match all over again.

I do as well, but I do have to say that until recent, I hadn't watched a full PBA telecast since either Bob Learn's 300, or the last telecast on ABC. That isn't to say that the PBA has gone downhill or anything; At that time, the LPBT/PWBA was more exciting to me, and I didn't miss a single telecast of that.

BL.

This is an interesting thread! I obviously came in on the backend.

I just recently bowled in a sanctioned USBC tourney in York, Pa. I bowled miserably because my equipment was giving me over/under looks. I had one ball, a little too much.....and the other just not enough! And then it hit me........urethane would be perfect! I suggested it to one of my teammates and BAM!!!

He was in the pocket for a nice 236 game after bowling on a broken down shot for 5 previous games. If I had known the length and the volume of the pattern ahead of time I would have prepared better! There was very little buff on the pattern so urethane was what was needed!

I don't get bored trying to figure things out! It's all about growing in bowling knowledge and experience!