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Author Topic: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins  (Read 2203 times)

Pinbuster

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Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« on: February 09, 2009, 12:00:02 AM »
You often read that Walter Ray was just a good bowler on tour until resin balls came out and then he could win.

Why don’t you hear the same thing about Norm Duke?

Their careers are similar.

Duke had 3 titles in 10 years before the resin era and now has won 30 since.  His only player of the year awards have come in the resin era.

Walter Ray had 6 titles in his first 10 years and since the resin era 39 more. He had a player of the year before resins.

They are both great bowlers. They didn’t hit their primes until resin came out and that explains some of the increase in titles.

But why all the hate towards Walter Ray?
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los2003

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 08:02:36 AM »
resin can not be the only reason... there was not always the summer tour buring their first 10 years also.. And walter ray had a lot of 2nd places too
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Urethane Game

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 08:05:51 AM »
If you read anything John Jowdy has written you will know what he includes Duke and Williams in the same conversation when talking about pro bowlers who have most benefitted from resin.
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WSUstroker

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 08:07:02 AM »
quote:

But why all the hate towards Walter Ray?


Norm is a likeable guy, WRW comes off as a jerk to most people.  It's easy to ignore facts when you only think with your heart.
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greenefam

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 11:52:25 AM »
quote:
    quote:
    But why all the hate towards Walter Ray?

Norm is a likeable guy, WRW comes off as a jerk to most people. It's easy to ignore facts when you only think with your heart.


I have spoken with both of these guys over the years and I agree that WRW many have that initial 'jerk' feel after you get to talking to him I think it is more about the fact that he is not really comfortable in his superstar skin.  To me Walter Ray is actually a bit introverted by nature and he has to force himself to be a bit more accessible.  Norm seems to love playing up to the crowds and he is at ease hamming it up.

After all is said and done Walter Ray and Norm will be known as the best two bowlers of the 90s-00s (sorry Pete and Parker).  The reason for this is simple, they both have amazing heads on their shoulders and are able to block out all the noise.
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KDawg77

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 12:01:50 PM »
From my observation, it took WRW more time to adjust to the resin era than Duke. However, once WRW found his stide, the rest was history.
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 04:04:56 PM »
i think we may also be forgetting something else here. these two gentlemen may have also gotten better as the years have gone by.
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BrianCRX90

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2009, 06:36:47 PM »
I think he learned to get the most out of reactives in 1994 and could sweep the lane with accuracy when most struggled with the change from urethane to resin. HOWEVER....he started to come around in 1991 when he made like 10 shows and after some loses on tv he won a couple of titles that year which broke his drought from his first title in 1983. In that time he would make a show here or there but he did something radical to his game somewhere around 1990.

Also keep in mind, the urethanes coming out around 1990-93 were super strong for the time and also I believe they went to shorter oil patterns around that time if I'm not mistaken which may also have helped him.

With that said, 1994 was an awesome year but last couple of years now he's never been better. If it wasn't for injuries he would have another POY by now. Perhaps this season is his season. Watch out for the Masters!
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Pinbuster

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 07:45:06 PM »
Brian - He won 3 times and was bowler of the year in 1986.

Won twice in 1987 and again 1991.

Granted he made a lot of shows between 1987 and 1993 and only won a couple of times. Often he would lead the field by a ton and then lose a heartbreaker on tv.

As I said most bowlers don't hit their primes on tour until they are 28 to 32. Walter and Norm both hit their primes around the introduction of resin balls.

But you still constantly hear that resins made Walter great but I don't believe I have heard anyone but John Jowdy say the same about Norm Duke.
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Doug Sterner

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2009, 07:54:48 PM »
It's no secret to those who know me that I am a staunch follower of the Norm Nation bbut here's my take on the WRW vs Duke debate...

WRW's big downfall was always the 10 pin. He has left more heartbreaker 10 pins than anyone on tour. He doesn't have a release that can get a lot of snap on the ball very comfortably....it's obvious if you watch him play the lanes. When he has to hook the ball he is uncomfortable.

Duke was hooking the ball big during his CHampions and Hammer days....he could circle the wagons with the urethane stuff and be fully comfy doing it.

Now we see them both playing the same game Walter has been using for seemingly decades....straighter is greater and up the boards they go.

Norm's carry with urethane was always better than WRW's.

Now with the resin Norm's has gotten better by a bit but WRW's carry percentage increase has been huge.

\Again, no hate mail please, it's just my take on things.
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BrianCRX90

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2009, 08:17:55 PM »
quote:
Brian - He won 3 times and was bowler of the year in 1986.

Won twice in 1987 and again 1991.

Granted he made a lot of shows between 1987 and 1993 and only won a couple of times. Often he would lead the field by a ton and then lose a heartbreaker on tv.

As I said most bowlers don't hit their primes on tour until they are 28 to 32. Walter and Norm both hit their primes around the introduction of resin balls.

But you still constantly hear that resins made Walter great but I don't believe I have heard anyone but John Jowdy say the same about Norm Duke.



I know...I was talking about Duke. Walter is old news. No... really I was talking about Norm only. Walter has pretty much always been great.
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chitown

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Re: Walter Ray versus Norm and resins
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2009, 09:05:29 PM »
In John Jowdy's book he states that both Norm Duke and WRW really benefited when reactive resin came out.  

Norm Duke and WRW are great because in my opinion they take the better approach to scoring.  Straighter is greater a majority of the time.  I just wish we could watch more matches with WRW VS DUKE.  I've only seen two and Duke won both.  

Duke and WRW are my favorite bowlers to watch.  It's funny watching them play straight and crushing the higher rev guys their bowling against.

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