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Author Topic: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...  (Read 2022 times)

LuckyLefty

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Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« on: February 23, 2005, 02:59:50 AM »
I was pleased to see Chris Barnes win.  He's had a lot of bad luck and beat himself some in the past.

While not necessarily a fan I'm a big admirer of his ability week after week and on so many conditions to consistently qualify over and over and over again for the finals. He is an appealing combination of accuracy and revs!  It was also nice to see him for once in the finals not be dropping, or slamming the ball into the foul line, instead he was projecting level and smoothly with those great revs of his out on to the lane!

I recently saw the following comment and I paraphrase, "Yes Marshall Holman had a lot of bad luck early in his career on TV and then once he won it was off to the races"  again a paraphrase not a quote.  In a blunt word, "NO".

I hope I'm wrong but there was a dramatic difference, Marshall Holman was nearly technically perfect!  Never have I enjoyed watching a right hander so much!

What do I mean by this?

What I mean are the following attributes of great pressure bowling form.

1. A prominently bent front knee.  
2. A straight or heel canted towards bowling arm front foot.
3. Most importantly level projection on the lane, done consistently(Walter Ray and Mika the best at this).
4. A consistent follow thru up along the side of the body(parallel with body travel) towards the side of the head or ear.

These fundamentals have been winning under pressure most of the time since the start of modern bowling and will continue to win!

The best at these fundamentals today are 1. Norm Duke when hooking it! (perfect). 2. Mika 3. Walter Ray 4.Brian Voss 5. Parker Bohn 4. Danny Wiseman
5. Pete Weber and on the Senior tour Dave Davis (when bowling) and David Ozio.

These are not necessarily placed in any order as they are all great above!

Chris Barnes is like a lot of great athletes, incredibly talented with all the apparent fundamentals that one needs, and blasphemy that I say it(he may come to my town and take all my money that my ex wife hasn't taken) I believe he is lacking in several areas (at least when on TV this may not be the case in qualifying).

1. Level projection(lots of flubs drops and slams near the foul line) not this show thank god!
2. Bent front knee(it varies from show to show).  
3. Straight to canted in sliding foot(all over the place)Yes I know Walter ray  does this too but after ball released.
4. Parallel follow thru position, can sometimes get in on face more than other top competitors.

Now I hope that I am wrong and that he goes on to achieve his success he has worked so hard for.  I really do love to watch him bowl but I believe the impressive combination of speed revs, athletic looking flow, and versatility to play different conditions may be masking some fundamental fine points that determine whether one can hold up under pressure.  

One bad shot in one of these what I call "physically impressive but not polished" techniques can lead to doubts under pressure as the pillars of consistency are really not there.    

 

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS another player who has loads of this type of beautiful "looking" talent is Paul Fleming.  Note his slide foot being in multiple different positions at the foul line when bowling in a finals.
PPS I was taught these pillars of pressure bowling technique by a fellow by the name of Dave Davis (hall of famer) and multiple major champion winner, it is with these techniques that he was able to beat some of the best that bowling ever had to offer.  THe one or two times I've actually emulated these points they sure have worked for me against bowlers who made my ball action look like it was standing still.
PPPS don't shoot the messenger just telling what I see!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

LuckyLefty

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2005, 04:34:54 PM »
Nothing at all!

I'm saying likening the predicament of Holman early in his carreer to Chris Barnes situation is a not an accurate assessment.

Holman technical perfection virtually,  Barnes physically impressive with frequent technical flaws.

In other words the analogy that Chris Barnes will go on to the same success as Holman may be inaccurate.

REgards,

LUckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Phillip Marlowe

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2005, 04:54:17 PM »
Lucky, I am a fan of Barnes' talent.  But if I were to suggest one thing that will prevent him from being as good as he could be its his versatility.  WHAT?  WHOA Phillip, whaddya mean?

Barnes, it seems to me, fiddles too much.  He can do so many things, I never watch him and get the sense that he has a single, consistent motion that is his base. He'll change hand positions, wrist positions, look like he is changing hand tensions, armswing length, axis of rotation, axis tilt,....and does each with a high degree of proficiency.  But what IS he?  How would you characterize his game, at bottom?  Walter Ray rolls the ball, consistently the same way, time after time.  Parker Bohn, smooth speed.  Robert Smith: power.  Voss, consistent mechanics.  Anthony, rolled the ball consistently -- the same time after time.  Watching Barnes, I think he thinks too much and has too many tools.  I would give loads for ONE of his tools.  Just a thought.
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Re-Evolution

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2005, 10:05:50 PM »
I think that the only obstical in the way of unbelievable success for Chris (buddy lee) Barnes is the matter between his ears.

In my opinion he makes to many physical adjustments instead of line adjustments.

What in my opinion makes him the best on tour also costs him wins.
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DonSVO

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2005, 10:23:01 PM »
i noticed that barnes seems to suffer from the same problem that will CONSISTENTLY beat me: i overanalyze a situation, dwell on what i did WRONG instead of what i did RIGHT... then i proceed to adjust and alter until i am lost.

scenario one: i find my ball hitting too light, leaving buckets, 2 washouts and a Big Four. 3 frames later, i am a board inside, different ball, half a foot forward on the approach... i throw 17 strikes in a row and for my personal best, a game of 297.

scenario 2 (tuesday night): my ball is rolling in too heavy. i move right, ball skids and hits fluffy. move left, less hand, less tilt, stone 7. step back, stone 7. more pressure on ring finger, stone 10. step forward, split. change ball, move right... a few frames later, i couldn't tell you where the pocket was if my life depended on it.

my point is that when the adjustments work, they WORK. but when they don't you fish for something and instead get further away. barnes works like this, and alot of times it seems as if he just gets too deep into his own head.
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2005, 10:55:52 PM »
I have not read through this forum much, but Sunday Chris really looked like he had issues with feel in the ball. He nearly gave the match away missing a spare that he should not miss.

By the feel in the ball I am talking about how it appeared he dropped the ball atleast 3 times throughout that match. He did not look like he had a good fit or feel.

I agree with Mr Marlowe to a degree. Barnes can do so many things, it could get to the point where he questions which of those things he should be doing.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2005, 12:08:21 AM »
My post is out here for a reason.  It may help one in their own bowling or it may help people understand what they are seeing or it may help people understand that athleticism is not proper fundamentals and relying on athleticism in the clutch is a path to uncertainty under pressure.

The items I listed came from Being lucky enough to practice with the great Dave Davis, (one of the best big title bowlers of all time).  His adherance to these principals since 1957 or 1958 as a big part of each practice session made me realize how important they are.  Few know that Dave met the greatest the great Earl the Pearl Anthony 8 times on TV.  Dave won 7!!!  Against the greatest bowler who ever lived.

A book by the perceptive maestro Bill Taylor (What ever happened to Don Carter) regarding how close the ball goess to the ankle in top flight bowling led me to being aware of how important this fundamental was.  Practicing with Dave Davis reinforced it!

When I see a great straight slide foot, a deep front knee bend, with the chest slightly behind the knee I know I might be in trouble.  However it is seen hardly ever.  Therefore when I do this action well I notice how accurate I am.
How directly the ball travels to my 45 to 50 foot breakpoint when I'm in this front knee bend position.  And how my opponents eyes start to open up and take in something they didn't think was gonna happen.

That is while there ball reaction dwarfs mine they are going to get beat when I'm doing this properly!

Practice these pillars of pressure bowling and gain from them or risk being victimized them  no matter how powerful your bowling ball and revs goes down the lane.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS IN golf I used to always watch the best and then watch the worst then it was clear to see. The golfers in the middle could confuse you.  BUT the key is in the differences.  The difference between OK, or powerful and correct.  Therefore if you watch the best bowlers you will almost never see a bowler with these concepts down or being practiced by anyoe.  No just the experts!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DON DRAPER

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 06:29:04 PM »
luckylefty, my comparison of chris barnes to marshall holman only referred to the fact that he hasn't won on tv very often. marshall holman did struggle with winning on tv for awhile but once it happened he "was off to the races". i'm sure this win will boost chris barnes tremendously.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 10:46:47 PM »
I know, and this post is not a criticism of you Greg Hoppe of whom I bow down to as I continue to see your impressive performances on the Brunswick website.

Note I did not refer to you, but an observation of the differences between Marshall and Chris at this point in their carreers.

I almost wonder if Chris with his big physical game maybe would have been better off with NOT winning so he could make the transition to his technique that maybe he needs.

I'm reminded of when Greg Norman won the Doral with a great round and then an eagle in the ensuing playoffs.  This was a validation of sorts for him and he never went on to solve his technique deficiency with his short irons which went on to haunt him as he missed out on about 10 majors he should have won with 8 iron and 9 irons right to rights at the wrong moment.  (This from a man who could fly driver after driver down the center of fairway with about 280 of carry and also could lace 2 irons from 240 on to greens within 5 feet for eagle , but could not guarantee that he could put a short iron on the green from 120!)

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2005, 03:24:28 PM »
This week on 2/27 the issue is loft control.

As a person who notices big differences with my bowling based on this fundamental.

Chris got one for sure if not two or 3 down in to the lane.  Fatal split was smashed into the line.

Tommy on the other hand had a bent knee, perfect foot position and a beautiful level extension thru every ball almost!

Gorgeous!

A ball can't be thrown any better than Tommy, Norm Duke a couple of weeks ago and Ameleto threw them.  Perfect in all these areas!

Wow!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DON DRAPER

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Re: Now he's on.... Chris Barnes, et al...
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2005, 09:24:25 PM »
it's too bad we really didn't get to see a player on the telecast today who HAD to strike to win a game---that is the highest form of pressure at that level. professionals, whether they be bowlers or bricklayers, are supposed to come through when they need to. yet, there is the emotional or mental side that can, and does, creep in. i only wish i was half that good.