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Author Topic: Same ball tournaments  (Read 1510 times)

Juggernaut

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Same ball tournaments
« on: February 18, 2009, 02:29:12 PM »
I just had a thought. Why don't ALL PBA tournaments require the participants to use the same exact model of ball during the tournament?

 That way, you remove any advantage one ball has over another, and the only thing left then would be personal skill level.


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Juggernaut

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 11:01:16 PM »
quote:
what company's ball???


  Any company. Heck, put them on a rotating basis. You could use a Storm ball one week, an Ebonite the next week, a Brunswick after that, etc......

  Only thing is, everybody would have to use the same model, i.e. virtual gravity or something else. I guess the players could vote which ball, or maybe the ball company could pick which one to use, as long as everybody used the same model.


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Kid Jete

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 11:06:01 PM »
Could they have 10 of that same ball with different drillings and surface preps?  I mean in actuality there really isn't much difference from using the same ball and the way it is now if you allow them to make those modification.  No different than telling the PGA tour they have to use the same clubs but they can alter lengths, lofts, lies, grips, etc.  The best players are still going to be at the top.  

Making them use the same ball sounds kinda communistic if that's possible.

jd1319

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2009, 12:02:35 AM »
Isn't that what this plastic ball tourny is all about?  You couldn't do it on a regular basis though, the PBA depends way to much on the money they charge manufacturors to allow their equipment to be used.

DP3

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2009, 01:35:40 AM »
The PBA is strictly an entertainment organization.  It's not about who's the best technical bowler.  It's there to entertain fans.  It just so happens that the best bowlers in the world are a part of the organization.
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Bill Thomas

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2009, 05:44:11 AM »
If we would require them all to use the same ball to even things out, why not require that they all use the same hand and eliminate the endless left/right complaining?

actsbowler21

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2009, 07:05:27 AM »
The whole standard ball argument has been going on for a couple of years now, jump on the gen. discussion forum on the pba site and look up Brian Voss's thread about it..there are some heated debates going towards it
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Danes07

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2009, 07:38:20 AM »
Its a good idea, but you have a lot of guys that are on staff and are not allowed to throw balls from other companies.

Yes, I know that all the plastic balls being used this week are made by Ebonite, but they are being specially made for the PBA and I don't think they will have the Ebonite logo on them.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2009, 03:26:59 PM »
You guys make some great points, especially the one about the PBA being in the entertainment field and not in the "best bowler" contest.

  I think I'll address these one at a time.

 
quote:
Could they have 10 of that same ball with different drillings and surface preps?

Making them use the same ball sounds kinda communistic if that's possible.
 


  No. The quantity would be limited to only a few, but, you could alter them in any way as long as they were "legal".
 How is this communistic?

quote:
If we would require them all to use the same ball to even things out, why not require that they all use the same hand and eliminate the endless left/right complaining?


 I sense your sarcasm, but you also sound a bit ridiculous. You can choose your ball and drilling, bt you cannot choose to be left or right handed, that happens by nature.

quote:
The whole standard ball argument has been going on for a couple of years now, jump on the gen. discussion forum on the pba site and look up Brian Voss's thread about it..there are some heated debates going towards it


  Not talking about a standard ball at all. Anything available to the public could be used, just that every contestant would be using the same one for that week.

 
quote:
Its a good idea, but you have a lot of guys that are on staff and are not allowed to throw balls from other companies.

Yes, I know that all the plastic balls being used this week are made by Ebonite, but they are being specially made for the PBA and I don't think they will have the Ebonite logo on them.


  Yes, that could be a problem, but knowing that every company that paid their usage rights fees would get a whole tournament to themselves might help to ease that situation.

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BrianCRX90

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2009, 04:05:37 PM »
Yuck....that was when I lost some respect over Brian Voss, a bowler I admired on tour.

This issue has been beaten like a dead horse. Two reasons why this will never happen. This isn't a team sport. Not every particpant can use the same ball. Once you use more the one ball even though they are close you no longer have a standard ball.

Second, who is going to make it? Well, it may not be a horrible idea if the PBA auctioned off every season for the ONLY ONE manufacturer to make all the balls for the PBA tour in a season and the rule was that all the balls had to have the same coverstock and core. Assuming that it is going to be plastic.

But do you really want that on today's oil patterns? It could get old afterawhile. I don't know.


JessN16

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 04:08:05 PM »
When golf standardizes balls and clubs, I might agree to that. Same for bats in baseball or rackets in tennis.

The standard ball idea for the tour usually comes out of a discussion of "how bowling is broke" or "how to make it more attractive" I disagree with the first notion and the second has nothing to do with equipment.

No other sport that requires someone to use a piece of equipment on another piece of equipment (thereby exempting football and basketball, which has only a primary piece of equipment -- the ball -- and no secondary piece of equipment...bowling uses a ball to attack pins and therefore has a primary/secondary relationship) has opted for standardization.

Standardization also offers no guarantee of separating the best from the rest. What it does is separate the best from the rest on that specific condition and within those specific parameters. It's a bit like watching one of NASCAR's two road races and declaring Juan Pablo Montoya or Robby Gordon the best driver in NASCAR when in actuality neither is very good on the 1.5-mile ovals that dominate the circuit.

Standardization of equipment would very likely make the PBA LESS entertaining to me, not more, because it would take a large piece of the mental game out of the equation. This sport got a lot more interesting to me when I had to see people start thinking about a lot of different variables.

The plastic ball tournament is nice, but it or any other one-variable exercise reduces the game to almost (not quite, but almost) a pure test of physical repetition skills. It basically becomes close akin to darts. Add the rest of the variables to the mix and now the mental game and knowledge become almost as important as the physical ability. And that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Jess

Edited on 2/19/2009 5:09 PM

rosanj06

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2009, 09:37:35 AM »
isn't part of the game being able to read the lane and choose the best line/equipment?

tdub36tjt

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2009, 02:27:40 PM »
That is a horrible idea in that some people just don't match up to a ball as well as another person might. The only way it would be remotely fair is if the ball has only a pancake core......

Juggernaut

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Re: Same ball tournaments
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2009, 03:05:48 PM »
Hey, I already said NO STANDARD BALL, only equipment available to the general public would be used.

quote:
isn't part of the game being able to read the lane


YES

quote:
and choose the best line?


YES

quote:
/equipment?


 Not so much.  If the equipment can make the choice of who wins and who loses, was it the bowers skill or the equipments ability to mask his lack thereof?

quote:
That might be one of the worst ideas ever, sorry. Part of "personal skill level" is choosing the right stuff that matches up with the conditions and you're game. Its not about equipment, its about game and brains.


 Conversely, if it is all about your game and brains, why should the choice of equipment make any difference? "Choosing the right stuff" isn't about SKILL in any way, especially since most bowlers have a ball rep that makes those decisions for them.

quote:
uh, who is going to pay for all of these balls? you gonna give them out for the tqr's too?


 Since a single manufacturer would be featured by themselves for the entire week, and the fact that the number of balls per participant would be limited, have it understood by the manufacturers that they would have to supply the balls as part of their "sponsorship" fees.

quote:
That is a horrible idea in that some people just don't match up to a ball as well as another person might. The only way it would be remotely fair is if the ball has only a pancake core......


  That is why you would rotate between ball companies from week to week, so that everyone would get a chance to use THEIR "favorite" ball companies stuff.

  Sure, one week guys who like STORM stuff would love it, but the next week they might have to use EBONITE, BRUNSWICK, etc... that they DON'T like so well.

  Then, at the end of the year, you could tell who was actually the physically/mentally best bowler because they were able to adapt to the most different equipment on the most lane conditions.
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