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Author Topic: So i wonder......  (Read 7924 times)

Jeff Carter

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So i wonder......
« on: October 27, 2008, 12:29:33 PM »
Is what's going on with Carlos Pena and Evan Longoria considered choking ?


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northface28

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2008, 01:47:37 PM »
Like clockwork.
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boomtown24

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2008, 02:12:29 PM »
Jeff, I understand where you are coming from, but it's very hard to connect the two.  One game you do all the work (ie. Barnes whiffing a 4 pin, on the other hand Pena & Longoria are reacting to what the pitcher is throwing (on an incredibly fast level.)  I think you could equate what Barnes does to what Rick Ankiel did a few years ago.  It has nothing to do with the physical aspect of the game.  As we all know Chris Barnes is one of the single best bowlers in the game, however at unfortunate times he's made mistakes that have cost him titles.  Even though he has been in that situation many times over, he seems to struggle down the stretch.  
Many professionals "choke" down the stretch, Sergio Garcia, Phil Mickelson, Colin Montgomery all did this in major championships.  It's a mental state.  He gets nervous, has trouble relaxing, whatever the case may be it's become a pattern.  He needs to overcome this from a mental standpoint.  I've choked before, I'll admit it, but I'd like to think I've learned from it and moved on.  Chris Barnes has put himself in that situation numerous times (because of performing well throughout the week) but his success rate has been fairly low lately.  I think it's very admirable the way he's handled himself, I would have gone off the map.  The only thing i can say to him is, keep up the excellent bowling.  Everyone chokes.........Everyone.

KDawg77

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2008, 02:40:24 PM »
No, Jeff, it's not them. Ryan Howard is just a beast!
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Maine Man

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2008, 03:17:59 PM »
What I am getting at from my previous post (which may have been a little vague with the reference), is without fans support, the PBA would shrivel up and die, period.  Does that mean the touring pro's need to kiss fan's butts?  No way.  But, it also means that the fans do not have to kiss the touring players butts either.

Fans have a right to their opinion, the ones who are at the event are paying money out of their pocket to see the event and these players perform, and those of us at home are paying our cable company and tuning in to watch the best players in the world week in and week out.  Fans of every sport, player, or team, live and die by the way those people or teams perform.  The Barnes fans are no different.  They support the guy, but probably get frustrated by his lack of winning on TV.  And those that do not like Barnes will just have more reason to not like him by the way he bowls on TV.  I believe that Barnes is one of the greatest technicians the game has seen, as evidence by his ability to get on the show consistently.  This, BTW, has nothing to do with his ability on TV.  The lanes play different, the TV lights are hot and bright, and the pressure is amped up.

But, by seeing a touring pro flame the fans for voicing their opinion, by starting this thread, on a player that many, including myself, love to watch, is disheartening.  This whole subject could have just went away as the week progressed, but here we are still talking about it because seemingly a pro has a beef with how some of the public view Barnes and his TV struggles.  I thought PBA players had more class, that they were able to be above the criticism, especially when it is not directed at this person directly.  A few people on an internet board voicing opinions on Sunday's show causes this reaction from a pro? I guess we should stop televising the events and post the results, that way no one would ever criticize the PBA players, or praise them, for that matter.  Wow, I would hate to see what would happen if the PBA guys had 50,000 people boo them like a player at a baseball game.

I love to watch the PBA on TV.  I look forward to it every week, and I have met many touring pro's at the events I have bowled in, and had a good time each time out, with 99% of the guys being very down to earth and cool to hang out with.  I just don't feel that any good can come out of flaming the fans who comment on Barnes' TV struggles.  They are entitled to their opinion as paying customers of the PBA, just as it is another fans right to defend Barnes as a supporter of that particular bowler.  The pro's are just that, professionals, and the status, perks, and criticisms that come with it are part of the territory, like it or not.  The ability to rise above it, and appreciate the fact that they get do something that most bowlers only dream of by competing on the PBA tour week in and week out.

BTW, I really like Barnes, as a person and a player.  He is very down to earth and one of the best bowlers I have ever seen in person.  I don't believe he chokes on TV, if he is guilty of anything he may overthink things a bit, but that's all.  He will go down as one of the greats when his career is over, no doubt about it in my mind.  I just hope there is a PBA around for us to see it, but if the players do not realize that without fan support and criticism of the players, there will be no PBA, then there is no hope.  Go ahead, flame away.......
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shelley

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2008, 03:30:20 PM »
quote:
Is what's going on with Carlos Pena and Evan Longoria considered choking ?


I don't know nuthin' 'bout baseball, but Eva Longoria can choke on my, err, baseball bat.

SH

Jeff Carter

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2008, 10:50:16 PM »
I hope you werent referring to me with the "class" comment. There was no hidden meaning to my post....I simply asked if people thought what was going on between Pena and Longoria was considered choking. I know what people think of Barnes...i have my opinion on it myself. My question was simple...are they "choking" or are they slumping

Talk about reading way too much into something
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Maine Man

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2008, 09:33:43 AM »
quote:
I hope you weren't referring to me with the "class" comment. There was no hidden meaning to my post....I simply asked if people thought what was going on between Pena and Longoria was considered choking. I know what people think of Barnes...i have my opinion on it myself. My question was simple...are they "choking" or are they slumping

Talk about reading way too much into something


Jeff,

While I respect your opinion, and you have every right t one just as every casual fan does, I will have to respectfully disagree that this post wasn't started without a hidden agenda.  The fact that it was put in the PBA section may (or may not) have been a mistake. If it truly were JUST about baseball, a guy as intelligent as yourself, who has posted on this site hundreds of times, should have put it in the Misc. Non-Bowling section to avoid this controversy altogether.  But I feel that it was put in here due to the Barnes flaming that occurred in another thread in the PBA section, just to get people riled up all over again.  I think that the hidden message (that Russell pointed out) holds true since it is in the PBA section.  If you want to just talk World Series, then start the thread in the correct section and no one would even post about Barnes, but I doubt that is the case.

Like I said, IF this were started just to get people riled up over Barnes all over again, then it is a classless move as I stated previously.  If it wasn't meant to address the Barnes situation indirectly (which I doubt), and was simply put in the wrong section, then at the very least it shows poor judgement.  One should know that a thread started about choking, put in the PBA section, on a week where Barnes allegedly choked, would eventually lead to that banter all over again.  If the latter is the case, then I will apologize now for saying it was a lack of class, as the post will simply be talking about the Rays and the World Series, and how their big bats have gone silent for the most part (except that Pena drove in the game tying run in game five for his first big hit of the series).  Either way, the timing, the section it was put in, and the subject that it entails, leads me to believe the sentence and the reason I stated from the beginning of the paragraph.  I hope I am wrong.
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Maine Man

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2008, 09:56:34 AM »
Just to be fair, the people on this site that CONSTANTLY bash Barnes and say he's a choker over and over again, are also classless.  You have your opinion, that's great, but if you keep posting that opinion over and over and say the same negative thing about Barnes, or any other person (without also recognizing the huge positive influence that individual has on the sport as a whole), you have no class either.  I just wanted to clarify that point.
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Jeff Carter

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2008, 10:31:14 AM »
So let me get this straight Maine....now i'm either classless or stupid ?

Here is exactly what my thought process was on this thread...period ! I was working on the computer while watching the World Series and they were talking about Pena and Longoria being 0- the Series. At that point i wonder ( aloud ) how that equated to what everybody that about the Barnes situation. Is it the same ? Or is it considered something totally different ? My point was very simple.

It wasnt a mistake that it was in the PBA forum...i was simply comparing the 2 things and getting an opinion. Like i said, i have my opinion as to what goes on with CB, and i have my opinion as to whats going on with 2 great young hitters that are struggling on the biggest stage in the world

But to come on here and call me classless is rediculous. I didn't fan any flames, i didnt rehash an old topic. I simply asked if what they were going through is considered choking. Next time, don't read between the lines and assume you know what i'm implying....just read the topic for what it is.
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Maine Man

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2008, 10:43:26 AM »
Then I assume it should have been posted in another forum, like the Non-Bowling related one?  If that is the case, as you have stated, then fair enough.  I apologize for the classless comment, as it sounds you were making an innocent comparison.  I never said you were stupid, btw, just poor judgement by putting it in the PBA forum, which would stir up all the Barnes haters again and get everyone all riled up.  I never call people stupid, unless they deserve it, I just wanted to clarify that.  I don't know about you, but I get sick of hearing them (the Barnes bashers), and hoped they would go away with the other thread.

Again, sorry if I read too much into your post, I just thought it was poor timing to put up a thread like this in the PBA section, given all the meatheads that have been flaming him all week.  Next time I will take your post on face value, unless otherwise noted by your response.  I hope you can see at least a little bit of where I was coming from with my points.  Sorry about my classless remark Jeff, take care.
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Jeff Carter

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 10:52:39 AM »
Well i am a friend of Chris's, so i REALLY hate to see all of the bashing going on...but i put it here to compare what people thought of the two sports. Like i said, i'm not here to instigate

BTW, no matter what the bashing will always continue. It's the way it is and will always be. Everybody is entitled to their opinions and i can respect that. I just wish everybody had access to all the information before making their assumptions, accusations and opinons
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mainzer

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2008, 10:56:44 AM »
Well jeff considering the source of the bashing this instance is a guy that carries a 178 tournament average I wouldn't worry to much.
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CharlieBrown

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2008, 11:24:17 AM »
quote:
It wasn't that Barnes choked, it was Duke won it.



x 2
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Uncle Crusty

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2008, 11:33:27 AM »
quote:
Very typical from a Boston fan, loud mouthed and rambling about god knows what.


Here you are defending Barnsie from unjustified attacks, yet you decide that all Boston fans are loudmouths. That's not hypocritical or anything...
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Maine Man

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Re: So i wonder......
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2008, 11:37:09 AM »
quote:
Very typical from a Boston fan, loud mouthed and rambling about god knows what.


I'm a Boston fan, and if you read my posts, I didn't think that Barnes choked.  Try again........
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MainePBA
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