BallReviews
General Category => PBA => Topic started by: HamPster on February 26, 2008, 05:18:06 AM
-
Everyone feel free to add their own thoughts or comments, but make them relevant, please. Here's one of my thoughts.
The PBA, unlike other sports, only showcases 4, sometimes 5, bowlers in one single show, one day a week, less than half the weeks of the year. While it's an individual sport that features a weekly champion, unlike baseball, football or basketball, but similar to golf, it's very quiet throughout the week. More often than not, golf shows every round. However, unlike golf, the championship is not determined by highest total pinfall once all the games are completed, it's decided by a bracket finals similar to the sports with only one annual championship. It's an odd mishmash of different elements, but I still believe that's what makes it unique. However, I believe that despite the benefits, it's also a detriment. Fans of golf that like to see a certain player play more often than not get to see quite a bit of that player the whole tournament. Although the majority of people that are fans of the PBA watch the show regardless of who is on it, there are quite a few who will only watch the show if a player that has their interest has made it. Showing the other rounds on tv would take away from the impact of the championship round a bit, but at the same time, it would open up people to a whole new world.
Imagine golf if you were only able to see a few of them on tv once a week. I for one would have liked to see Andrew Frawley throw more than one game, I'd have liked to see how much different match play is from tv. The TQR and qualifying rounds get us all set up for the rounds of matchplay, that piques our interest for the matchups . . and then we have to watch on the internet . . I'd love to see the rounds leading up to the show weekly. Plus only seeing one or two games on tv lends the audience to all sorts of idiotic or flat out errant assumptions or conclusions. As far as this weekend goes, I spoke to Rick Benoit on Sunday when he was back in town, and he said the lanes played a lot slicker throughout the week, and the reason that Frawley did so well is that he was excellent at keeping a slower speed consistent. I also found out that my conclusions about Wes Malott are wrong. More often than not when Wes is on tv, it looks like he gets down to the bottom of the swing and grabs the hell out of the ball, but Rick gave me a funny look when I asked him how Wes was still so effective, and said Wes really gets it down into the lane pretty quickly. How does Walter make tv week after week if he bowls the same way during the week that he's bowled on tv the last couple times out? He's looked horrible, but yet he still makes it more often than not.
That's my basic thought. Scoring, equipment, all that has to do with it, but I thought of a different angle here.
--------------------
This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.
-
If you got a hole in one every week in golf or caught a prize bass every time you dropped the line in the water that would get boring as well..... Bowlers refuse to accept the challenge of PBA or Sport bowling they just want to score and even that gets boring.
Nod
--------------------
LTBOCSFM
-
quote:
As far as this weekend goes, I spoke to Rick Benoit on Sunday when he was back in town, and he said the lanes played a lot slicker throughout the week, and the reason that Frawley did so well is that he was excellent at keeping a slower speed consistent.
I was wondering about that. Also the kind of reaction Shafer was getting kind of made me wonder. Clearly it wasn't like this leading up to him getting on the show...
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
-
quote:
If you got a hole in one every week in golf or caught a prize bass every time you dropped the line in the water that would get boring as well..... Bowlers refuse to accept the challenge of PBA or Sport bowling they just want to score and even that gets boring.
Nod
--------------------
LTBOCSFM
I agree 1,000%
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell
The artist formerly known as "jabroni"
-
Yeah . . bowling is getting that way. I'm bored out of my mind here in town, nothing's a challenge. Lol, I went and bowled at the local joke of a center here in town that everybody avoids like the plague. Old wood, even the guardian is torn up. Now it's not horrible enough to where anything's warped or where the ball hops, it's a consistent enough reaction, but the shot dries up quickly, it's a pretty flat shot and you have to be on top of things. I wanted a challenge, which the other centers in town can't provide. Even the torn up Laneshield that can't hold a shot for 5 frames is pathetically easy. It's fun for a while, but then it quickly loses its interest . .
So why do you think that people still golf even though it's probably one of the toughest sports to master? Who ever goes out and plays a round of golf and isn't frustrated at some point and time? Sure there are par 3 courses that are supposed to be easier, but if you can't hit the ball straight, what does it matter? I don't mind reactive bowling balls, I believe if you can be accurate with reactives, you can be accurate with plastic, and that when you make a good shot, I think you should be rewarded. Reactives also tend to help out a bit, I don't mind that. The lane conditions have to change though. Reactives sometimes even make it tougher on tighter conditions. Anybody have any suggestions how to work towards that?
--------------------
This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.
-
I don't know I thought the point of bowling was to fling a ball 20 mph toward the gutter (anywhere near the gutter) and get a strike.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
-
First not just the PBA but bowling in general is down. So the audience of core bowlers is down.
Second why watch/pay to see what the locals are doing every week in league?
-
I don't get what you meant by that second part . .
quote:
First not just the PBA but bowling in general is down. So the audience of core bowlers is down.
Second why watch/pay to see what the locals are doing every week in league?
--------------------
This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.
-
locals shoot the same scores
as far as the demise of bowling, it is quite simple, as several factors play in
1 economics, disposable cash flow is down
2 time constraints, lots of people want to bowl but refuse to give up 30-36 weeks for it
3 family constraints see above
4 managements lack of trying to fill leagues.
unlike in days past bowling alleys now need to compete with many places for the family dollar, if the management is not willing to put forth the effort to fill a house, it isnt going to fill
Where I bowl the sport is doing quite well, small houses full, waiting lists for open bowling yada yada yada. why because the management takes it seriously, an alley run by a non bowler is gonna fail everytime
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
-
To put a spin on locals seeing the same thing...
If locals are playing in PBA Experience leagues, seeing the same thing on TV is more of an incentive to watch.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
-
I think there is a general misunderstanding by potential bowlers regarding the science behind it and just how much plays into whether or not a bowler can play the lanes well.
I think if potential bowlers were better educated about the challenge and variety of sport and PBA shots, they would find more interest in it.
At the same time it is tough to bowl on those patterns and you don't want to discourage bowlers.
It's a win-win/lose-lose situation.
--------------------
Bad Nuz is Good News
High Game USBC: 255
High Game Unsanctioned: 298
Me bowling (http://"http://www.freewebs.com/badnuzjr/1.27.08b.jpg")
My Bowling Scores/Stats (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=3049&leagueid=2059")
-
quote:
To put a spin on locals seeing the same thing...
If locals are playing in PBA Experience leagues, seeing the same thing on TV is more of an incentive to watch.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
not enough education of the general public to see or know the difference in patterns, they see house hack A (me) shoot 300 and ask why i am not on tour
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
-
In the 'golden years' of bowling it was a TEAM sport my five vs your five. Then the PBA came along. When the Budweisers were bowling everyone knew who they were. Maybe the PBA should bring back the Team Element.
Incidentally I feel bowling is an Individual sport but something has to be done to bring life back to this game.
Ahh
--------------------
'I'm Partial to the Fugue' - Radar O'Reilly
-
1) the economy
2) managers who are accountants not bowlers
3) owners who are accountants not bowlers
-
If Golf had only a few people on tv it would be TEN times better! The reason golf is so horrible on tv is because they are showing the whole tournament finals with multiple people in it. There is too many people participating and they are only showing what they want to show you. Imagine bowling instead of showing a "finals" in bowling with 4 or 5 bowlers and just have the bowling finals with 16 round robin bowlers bowling at once.
I've argued the "bracket format" tournaments that the PBA has. What is the point of having a round of 32, best of 7, head to head match play if all your going to do is but the final 4 on tv but it's only 1 game each? I'd rather see a round of 4 match play and have only 2 remaining bowlers left for the tv finals and have a best of 7 for that too. It would be much more exciting.
-
Some great ideas here.
Showing the early rounds for the PBA would cost way more to accomplish than money it would generate, plus the rounds are during the day, so how many folks would watch them, and if you tape delay it, now you are going up against American Idol, and shows like that. The PBA would get killed in that time slot.
A few folks have said it, bowling Center owners/managers are trying to make as much money as possible. They will generate far more on open play than league bowling. Lineage fees in most leagues for 3 games don't add up to what a center gets for 1 open play game. Add to that the fact that open play bowlers are ordering more food and more drinks and that makes the open play bowler more valuable. Why are so many pissed tha someone that owns a business wants to make money? That is what they bought the business for.
Until people take a greater interst in bowling as a sport, it will continue to decline.
Those people that thing the typical house shot being too easy is a problem are crazy. Why would you want to make the house shot hard for people that are beginners or intermediates? They would lose interest and leave the sport.
The way it is set up now is fine. I bowl in house leagues with my buddies and that is fun, yes my average is higher, but I am there for fun. I have my PBA Experience league and sport shot tournaments for a challenge, and you can still work on issues in your game during the so called "adult Bumper Bowling". Those that want the challenge of harder shots have the PBA and Sport Leagues available. Those that want to score well no matter what they do have house leagues.
Sport bowlers need to stop looking down on house bowlers. That is no way to grow a sport. Jsut because they don't want to bowl on the sport shot doesn't make them any less of a bowler than you.
-
quote:
Sport bowlers need to stop looking down on house bowlers. That is no way to grow a sport. Jsut because they don't want to bowl on the sport shot doesn't make them any less of a bowler than you.
I also like the setup now because you have two options and it caters to everyone's needs.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
-
quote:
quote:
Sport bowlers need to stop looking down on house bowlers. That is no way to grow a sport. Jsut because they don't want to bowl on the sport shot doesn't make them any less of a bowler than you.
I also like the setup now because you have two options and it caters to everyone's needs.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with the way it is set up. We just need to get more folks involved in leagues. Let them grow as bowlers on the easier house patterns, and then they can decide if they want to step up to the challenge of PBA Experience or Sport conditions.
-
The only people I look down on are the higher average bowlers that whine and complain when they don't shoot 700 but are too scared to bowl on a sport pattern. Now I suppose if that's what makes them happy is shooting big numbers, then so be it, but when they start bragging on themselves and saying they'll bowl anybody for money anytime, and then as soon as you say PBA pattern, they run and hide, then they're fair game in my mind.
I definitely agree with your point though. There are a lot of casual bowlers out there who just want to come, throw the ball, shoot something decent, drink and be merry and go home. I know plenty of people like that, and they're more fun than the serious house bowlers, which the latter really makes no sense to me, but oh well.
My pro shop guy is going to implement a really interesting idea this summer. We had a PBA league last summer, but the center doesn't want to mess with taping the lanes every week this year and doing the sanctioning stuff, so he's going to do it a bit differently. I think we had 30 people do the league last year, which he just basically made into a singles league for pretty cheap so everybody could get practice without the frustration of competition. Well this year, it's not being sanctioned, and the center is giving him 6 lanes. He's going to put a different pattern on each pair, and the first two pairs are going to be for practice. It's going to be a set rate for practice, it's gonna start at 5 or 6 and go until about 10, all you can bowl on those two pairs, so you can get the REAL PBA experience, and it's not a league so if you don't want to come every week, that's fine. The last pair is going to be for pot bowling/king of the hill type stuff. You have to get there early enough for the king of the hill stuff, but basically whoever doesn't lose gets the pot. Then there will be structured pot bowling to get a larger group to bowl, plus you have the option of sidebets with whoever you choose for however much you want to bet. I'm pretty sure I'll be by myself over there . . but oh well.
Anyway, it's too bad we can't have both. The big thing in my town is our annual top ten tournament and bowler of the year award for the city. Have to bowl at least one league in two different houses to be eligible, and the top ten composite averages have a tournament, and there's also a points system for honor scores, averages, being a city association member, etc. So nobody wants to bowl on anything tough or at any house that's tough because it might wreck their top ten average. So that's basically why we don't have anything to work with here.
quote:
quote:
quote:
Sport bowlers need to stop looking down on house bowlers. That is no way to grow a sport. Jsut because they don't want to bowl on the sport shot doesn't make them any less of a bowler than you.
I also like the setup now because you have two options and it caters to everyone's needs.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with the way it is set up. We just need to get more folks involved in leagues. Let them grow as bowlers on the easier house patterns, and then they can decide if they want to step up to the challenge of PBA Experience or Sport conditions.
--------------------
This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.
-
i chose to give up my pba membership and to stop bowling pba regional tournaments. i gave up the regionals due to the expense mostly but i gained valuable experience that money can't buy. i learned just how important spare shooting is. i learned how to play different lines, how to change ball speed, how to change my axis of rotation, etc. my league averages of 225 meant nothing here-----neither did my 300 games and my 800 series. i am prouder of my 203 average for 8 tournaments, two 700 series, and not missing a spare for an entire tournament, than i am of anything else i've achieved in bowling.
-
quote:
The only people I look down on are the higher average bowlers that whine and complain when they don't shoot 700 but are too scared to bowl on a sport pattern. Now I suppose if that's what makes them happy is shooting big numbers, then so be it, but when they start bragging on themselves and saying they'll bowl anybody for money anytime, and then as soon as you say PBA pattern, they run and hide, then they're fair game in my mind.
When I was first considering trying it out, I was kind of scared because I thought it was going to be all these high average guys dominating me all day. Then I read that most of the people in the sport leagues are below 200 players trying to get better... They should emphasize this more so people aren't intimidated to try it. If the high average guys have some kind of ego or whatever fine but the lower average guys are the ones who really want to get better.
Even some people who were having huge problems in the beginning actually got really good near the end.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
-
In our area, Brunswick has bought out most of the major independents, the last being Bill Spigner's Hawthorn Lanes. What I have noticed, is that they focus at these type of establishments is how many birthday parties they can book, and how much Cosmic (we call it comic bowling) they can fill. Many of the time, the league bowler will come in to practice, and Cosmic will be on, and they walk out and go elsewhere. I think money is becoming tighter, gas being the worst, and entertainment dollars are being used for neccesities now. House shots are ridiculously easy, the highly skilled bowlers have been equaled often by the house hack with the high handicap, with the latest hook in the box equip. Many of the good leagues have dwindled in our area. The only leagues that are even worth talking about now have two-thirds of the teams more interested in the bar, than bowling. Its a sad state of the sport !
--------------------
Thirtyclean (Well maybe 29, or 28, most of
the times !)
-
quote:
In our area, Brunswick has bought out most of the major independents, the last being Bill Spigner's Hawthorn Lanes. What I have noticed, is that they focus at these type of establishments is how many birthday parties they can book, and how much Cosmic (we call it comic bowling) they can fill. Many of the time, the league bowler will come in to practice, and Cosmic will be on, and they walk out and go elsewhere. I think money is becoming tighter, gas being the worst, and entertainment dollars are being used for neccesities now. House shots are ridiculously easy, the highly skilled bowlers have been equaled often by the house hack with the high handicap, with the latest hook in the box equip. Many of the good leagues have dwindled in our area. The only leagues that are even worth talking about now have two-thirds of the teams more interested in the bar, than bowling. Its a sad state of the sport !
I'll tell you though if some leagues have dwindled you should have some lanes open for a PBA Experience league... There is no way a true "hack" can compete with a good bowler on this.
I don't know what to say about cosmic bowling because I hate it.
--------------------
Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
-
Bowling will never return to it's membership levels in it's hayday simply because people today have to many options to occupy their time and money period.
-
another reason bowling is suffering........cosmic bowling is for people who bowl. sanctioned leagues and tournaments are for bowlers. there's a difference.
-
Golf is now going back down in participation.
Softball leagues, which used to be absolutely huge where I lived, are tapering off; many have outright folded.
Most every major participatory activity, if it hasn't already leveled off, is trending that way.
Guys, we spend a lot of time trying to "fix" bowling. We're mostly wasting our time. What needs "fixing" are human beings.
We don't get out of the house as much. We don't walk our neighborhood streets like we used to. People who go to church go once a week instead of three times a week. We are becoming an insular, singular people in this country. I can't speak for Europe, Australia, etc.
The Internet and video gaming have done more than anything else to hurt not only this sport, but all sports. We are proof of that, somewhat, by our membership here on ballreviews.com. Endless television choices play another part in the problem.
Scoring in bowling matters very little to the participation rate. I used to be an association president, and I was a recruiter for another association. I can count on one hand the number of people who told me they quit league because the scores were too high, or too low.
Here's where our problems are:
1) Economy isn't healthy, and disposable income isn't what it has been in recent years.
2) Factory/shift jobs are moving overseas. I know one center near me that lost an ENTIRE 32-TEAM LEAGUE in one day, because it was an industrial league for third-shift workers and the plant where they all worked closed down the third shift.
3) Cost of bowling. It's now something like $16 to sanction and $14/week for me to bowl, and I know of leagues that are charging $25-$30 per week in my area.
4) Length of bowling. Attention spans are shorter and the 36-week league season appeals only to us diehards.
5) Just plain ol' laziness.
6) The biggest one that only a few people talk about: Crappy recruitment practices on the part of bowling associations and bowling centers. Recruiting for bowling is best done face-to-face. It's like inviting someone to church. You get your best results when you go person to person and ask them to join your league.
Scoring pace is a completely separate discussion from participation in the sport.
Jess
-
Good post Jess . .
--------------------
This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.