Post by: K_Korner on April 01, 2004, 05:36:25 PM
Bowling is Justin's life, that is his career, he is very good at it. He is extremely down on bowling anymore PBA sponsored events. To lose someone like this for the future of the tournament and the future of the PBA would be a disgrace because of something that was the fault of the Manufacturer. Feedback please. Thanks for reading.
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Post by: mumzie on April 02, 2004, 09:39:00 AM
This is a MINOR infraction, and something that happens all the time. PBA takes the equipment sponsorship very seriously - they have to. If he wants to play with the big boys, he needs to know the rules. I do believe rule books should have been available in the paddock as well.
Why didn't he turn around and pick up a SPONSORED wrist brace?
Post by: seadrive on April 02, 2004, 09:47:50 AM
"This durable, neoprene wrist aid provides total, unrestricted, flexible support. Made of quality closed-cell neoprene with absorbent, laminated stretch fabric lining. Wrap-around Velcro® straps adjust for exact tension. Helps prevent carpal tunnel syndrome and keeps wrist therapeutically warm. Includes flexible insert for additional support."
Doesn't sound like much of a wrist support. If you ask me, your friend's problem was more mental than physical.
Tell him to get over it and move on. If this is the worst thing that ever happens to him, he'll be pretty lucky.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: K_Korner on April 02, 2004, 09:52:02 AM
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Post by: PC Doc on April 02, 2004, 10:00:46 AM
Post by: ltimpson on April 02, 2004, 10:08:29 AM
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LT
That 10th strike continues to elude me...
Post by: michelle on April 02, 2004, 10:09:06 AM
There are lots of items in the marketplace that were packaged prior to the current year. This holds true for bowling merchandise as well as other areas of sales...
Just because something was approved at one point in time does not mean it is approved for eternity...
It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the bowler to know that they are in compliance with product registration guidelines. For PBA rules, if he truly did not have access, then he should have called Seattle if the Regional Director would not give him an answer. My guess is that he never looked and never asked about whether his wrist device was approved for use this year. Pay the $100 and either bowl without or obtain one that is in compliance with the current registration requirements.
Post by: ltimpson on April 02, 2004, 10:11:04 AM
http://www.pba.com/sponsors/default.asp?Type=1
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LT
That 10th strike continues to elude me...
Post by: Nicanor on April 02, 2004, 10:17:27 AM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: cgilyeat on April 02, 2004, 10:36:49 AM
If he wasn't sure of anything, he should have asked Russ during the non-members and first-timers meeting. Had he not taken it off, he would have been disqualified. Was this an expensive learning experience, no doubt, but that shouldn't stop him from bowling more regionals and/or joining the PBA. If it does, then maybe there's a bigger issue here.
Edited on 4/2/2004 11:31 AM
Post by: ltimpson on April 02, 2004, 10:52:43 AM
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LT
That 10th strike continues to elude me...
Post by: michelle on April 02, 2004, 10:54:15 AM
quote:
In his first round of match play, he was leading 1-0. He seemed to be a lock to win the match, when the tournament director approached him in the middle of the second game, in which he was also leading. he was told that the Master Wrister that he was wearing was not a PBA sponsored item. He was forced to take it off and fined $100 for his actions. He could not bowl properly after that because his wrist was weakened by the removal of the Wrister and wound up losing the match.
Looking at the recap of the event, I would hardly have said he seemed to be a lock to win the match...it wasn't as though he went from shooting lights out to scoring poorly.
From the PBA website: #6 Bob Caruso, Dayton, N.J., def. #11 Justin Warhol, Sound Beach, N.Y., 3-1 (161-195, 203-186, 237-151, 225-216)
His best game of the set actually came in the last of the four games...pretty much ruins the argument that he couldn't "bowl properly" after the non-approved equipment was discovered.
Being htat he was not a member and was actually bowling as a guest, he needs to suck it up as a learning experience. If he continues to blame the manufacturer then, as others noted, there are bigger issues.
Post by: cgilyeat on April 02, 2004, 12:02:02 PM
quote:
I heard there were issues with certain brands of insert tape as well, although I can't find a link to support it...
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LT
That 10th strike continues to elude me...
From the PBA Members Guide:
quote:
23.2 GUIDELINES FOR REGISTERED PRODUCTS
a. Competitors may not use any non-registered bowling-related
product in PBA competition. [Minor Penalty, One Hundred Dollar
($100) Fine, Disqualification if the product in question is not
immediately removed]
NOTE: Accessory items (cork inserts, tape, grips, slugs, rosin bags,
ball polish) are excluded from this rule.
Just found it in the on-ine version. Of course, as pbafire stated, polish bottles must be left in the paddock.
Edited on 4/2/2004 12:57 PM
Post by: bass on April 02, 2004, 12:51:57 PM
I'm kind of surprised that your friend made it all of the way to match play before somebody caught what he was wearing usually the guys would point this out long before that time.
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 02, 2004, 01:05:05 PM
Sounds a lot like the time Craig Stadler used a towel on wet grass to keep from getting his pants dirty. Kneeled down hit a great shot off his knee/towels and ended up getting disqualified.
I'm sure if this guy did not make it to the match play it would never have been mentioned.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS too bad these rules have nothing to do with whether they give a bowler an unfair advantage(cleary they don't, he just didn't have time to adjust to another brand). All they have to do with is products paying PBA fees!
Post by: Shonk on April 02, 2004, 01:47:04 PM
Merriam Websters states that "equipment" is:
1 a : the set of articles or physical resources serving to equip a person or thing: as (1) : the implements used in an operation or activity : APPARATUS (2) : all the fixed assets other than land and buildings of a business enterprise (3) : the rolling stock of a railway b : a piece of such equipment
2 a : the equipping of a person or thing b : the state of being equipped
3 : mental or emotional traits or resources : ENDOWMENT
My concern is that there are only a handful of companies that produce wrist supports that actually function properly, why has the PBA chosen to not support Robby's, Mongoose, and Master as PBA approved equipment?
Doug Shonkwiler
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co.
System Design Engineer Sr.
(817)777-3609
22/3/D8
douglas.d.shonkwiler@lmco.com
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Shonk
Post by: Shonk on April 02, 2004, 01:48:08 PM
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Shonk
Post by: channel surfer on April 02, 2004, 02:18:21 PM
The wrister DOES work. I used one myself for about 2 years when I had wrist pains, bad ones. My dad bought me the wrister and it cured it while i was bowling. I no longer use it now because those pains went away after adjustments.
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Post by: michelle on April 02, 2004, 02:23:00 PM
quote:
My concern is that there are only a handful of companies that produce wrist supports that actually function properly, why has the PBA chosen to not support Robby's, Mongoose, and Master as PBA approved equipment?
Easy answer there...it isn't up to the PBA to support them, it is up to the manufacturer to pay whatever fee the PBA charges. Unless things have changed, you become a manufacturer of an approved product when you write a rather large check to the boys and girls in Seattle.
Same principle held true in the PWBA, but the checks were not quite as large from my understanding of the registration requirements.
WRT Robby's, I thought they fell under the Ebonite umbrella, but looking at the list I may have my companies mixed up...perhaps not enough guys using braces to justify the registration?
Post by: Platinum Bowler on April 02, 2004, 04:26:09 PM
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B-Car
Post by: K_Korner on April 02, 2004, 11:58:08 PM
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Post by: UCFKnight300 on April 03, 2004, 12:35:32 AM
Mike
-UCF-
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 03, 2004, 12:51:47 AM
Again what does any of this have regarding giving an unfair advantage to an opponent. Answer = nothing! That is why pure crap.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: seadrive on April 03, 2004, 09:26:19 AM
quote:
Again what does any of this have regarding giving an unfair advantage to an opponent. Answer = nothing! That is why pure crap.
LL, it has nothing to do with giving someone an advantage. It's about sponsors and money, nothing more, nothing less.
Personally, although I understand the rule, I think it should only apply to televised events. Who really gives a rat's hind quarters if someone uses a non-sponsored product in a regional viewed by, what, 50 people? Who cares?
But, the rule is the rule, and this guy should have made himself aware of the rules before competing. Shake it off, forget it, let it go.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: bass on April 03, 2004, 10:25:03 AM
A few years ago you had to trim the tags of your pants(i.e. dockers) or blaken them out.
It was basically a running joke during roll call to look for offenders and have their pants "altered" before competition.
It's probably best to ask a tournament official about a product before using it in competition.
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 03, 2004, 10:54:38 AM
I can enter tournaments all the time where there is more money than regionals without having to put up with that crap! I wouldn't even waste my time unless it was the only thing in the world I could do for money! That's why there are so many great bowlers making a living just off brackets, pot games and tournaments in Vegas.
Now a sport that has some money like golf, well that's a different story.
If they told me I had to wear a Hairpiece with a logo Jimmy's Sushi Palace for that type of money I'd do it!
For $1,000 or $2,000 dollars at the first sign of BS like that I'm outta there!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: seadrive on April 03, 2004, 01:47:39 PM
As I said, I think this sponsor stuff should only apply to televised tour stops. At the regional and senior (not televised for past two years) levels, you're right, it's a bunch of crap.
Also, the guy who complained about the Wrister in the 2nd game of the match, after losing the first game, comes off as a sore loser and a crybaby. I can't imagine pulling that kind of crap in the middle of a match.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 04, 2004, 12:58:46 AM
One of the greatest eye openers of my life came when I was in my early 20s.
I'd grown up at a local golf course playing with my Dad and always had been treated great by people, I was only a so so player.
After a few years in College I came back a much stronger player and became a member of this club that had 30,000 members(work oriented). In my first two weeks there I won the club championship, smokin some other well known players by quite a bit.
It was very exciting for me and many seemed very gracious. I was invited to play in the scratch league by the league secretary in the upcoming fall.
As I step up to the tee, this little guy the league secretary who had been runnerup in the tournament I won a couple times of about 25 years of trying. Cleared his throat as loud as he could during my backswing of my first shot in league.
I thought it was an accident. As the year went on this guy pulled similar crap repeatedly. He was the father of an acquaintance of mine from elementary school and a somewhat respected member of the work community. His position in the work community kept him from becoming rapidly horizontal.
I lost all respect for him and was quite happy to play with him as he contended for the title a couple of years later and in the final round while I didn't win I was able to watch him virtually self destruct while I roared near the top the final day. Him coughing and hacking many a time during mine and other players shots. It cleared up after the round. This man was a small, little mean unhappy person jealous of the success of others. Others that have this trait become smaller become smaller and pettier every day.
At that time I realized that many people will resent success and while others will truly share ones joy with them. It is quite the measure of a man where he fits in this spectrum!
Over the years I have gained some wonderful perspective on people and this is a defining trait of people that I enjoy. The ability to enjoy the success of others.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: Shonk on April 05, 2004, 09:03:24 AM
Dear Mr. Shonkwiler,
Thank you for your recent inquiry. Yes, it is correct that Mongoose and Master are among those companies whose equipment is not cleared for use in PBA competition. However, Robby's (an Ebonite product), Columbia, Storm, Ebonite (main line) and Hi Sports (under the Storm umbrella) all make excellent products and offer wide variety of wrist supports and gloves.
The companies listed above have chosen to support the PBA by participating in the Product Registration Program. We in turn support those companies who have a vested interest in registering their products for use in PBA competition. To allow other, non-product registered equipment in PBA competition would not be in the best interest of those product registered companies who have stepped up to support the PBA.
I hope this satisfactorily answers all of your questions concerning the product registration policy. If you have further questions feel free to contact me directly at kirk.von.krueger@pba.com
Sincerely
Kirk von Krueger
Director, PBA Tour
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Shonk
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on April 06, 2004, 01:41:24 PM