BallReviews

General Category => PBA => Topic started by: Spider Ball Bowler on November 26, 2008, 11:18:51 AM

Title: Walter Ray
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on November 26, 2008, 11:18:51 AM
I was sitting here wondering, how does Walter play the lanes so straight, when it looks like he hits the crap out of the ball on the bottom?  I mean how does he get the super reactive equipment to react the way he does?
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: tenpin477 on November 26, 2008, 07:19:58 PM
Really weak drillings
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: noturcuzin on November 26, 2008, 07:23:53 PM
quote:
Really weak drillings


Exactly. I think he usually does a pin up high or pin up between the bridge?
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: Xfest on November 26, 2008, 07:38:21 PM
You also have to realize he has Mo Pinel behind him.. Mo can probably layout anything Walter would want to see on the lanes. So take Mo's genious(ness) and Walter Ray's game, and I'm sure you can figure out the rest of the picture. Also, Mo's stuff seems to be a little rollier on today's patterns, which also smooths out his reaction.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: DON DRAPER on November 26, 2008, 09:46:55 PM
actually, walter ray williams, jr., doesn't usually use weaker drilling patterns. if you have watched the pba telecasts over the years you will usually see the pin placement on his equipment appx. 4-4 1/2" from his pap. he will fine tune the coverstock to suit the lane condition. the rest is talent.....speed control, accuracy, loft, angle, axis rotation, etc.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: jd1319 on November 27, 2008, 01:01:38 AM
If you play straight enough, you can reduce the lane conditions effect on the equation.  WRW combines a straight game with a deadly ability to be accurate and repeat shots.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: Spartan on November 27, 2008, 02:00:53 AM
i remember on a previous telecast, they were using CATS, and his speed clocked in at just over 20mph.

there's another reason.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: agroves on November 27, 2008, 09:10:17 AM
He doesn't hit the ball, it just looks like he does.  If you can, slow mo his release.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: jkiser01 on November 27, 2008, 09:22:10 AM
Pin above the ring drillings are not weak drillings, they are actually strong. The higher the pin, the longer the ball will go..

Placing the pin in the bridge is also not a weak drill, not the strongest, but also not weak.

If you get the pin above or beside your ring finger (for a rh bowler), now thats a weaker drilling..
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: shelley on November 27, 2008, 09:32:20 AM
quote:
Pin above the ring drillings are not weak drillings, they are actually strong. The higher the pin, the longer the ball will go..

Placing the pin in the bridge is also not a weak drill, not the strongest, but also not weak.

If you get the pin above or beside your ring finger (for a rh bowler), now thats a weaker drilling..


All of that is dependent on your PAP.  For Mike Fagan (the exempt one, not the 161-average one), pin above the bridge is close to leverage.  For me, pin above the bridge is extremely weak.  My PAP is in the 6" range while Fagan's is more like 3.5".

Greg and Milk are right.  Most of WRW's stuff is drilled pretty strong, in the 4-4 1/2" range with the MB in the strong position.  He makes his adjustments with surface and has a pretty high ball speed.

SH
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: cheech on November 27, 2008, 03:41:20 PM
tom em it doesnt look like he hits the ball all that much he just lifts really hard at the bottom and has more end over end roll that makes it grab earlier and be more even
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: DON DRAPER on November 27, 2008, 06:08:23 PM
this is probably what i like about walter ray's game the most. he drills up less new stuff than almost anyone else on tour and finds a way to make the equipment work.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: Rileybowler on November 27, 2008, 06:20:37 PM
He was also winning many many titles before he went with Mo
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: chitown on November 27, 2008, 06:49:36 PM
I would guess that 98 percent of the time WRW uses strong layouts.  Most of the time his pin placement is usually in the 3 3/8" to 4.5" range.  He also uses strong MB placements.

It's easy to see how WRW ball reactions are usually controlled on the backend.  More of an arc type reaction most of the time.  Have you ever heard of drilling a ball strong to control the break point?  It's true!  Strong pin placements cause the bowling ball to flare a lot.  It also causes the ball to flare early which helps the ball layoff a little bit on the backend.  I feel this is why WRW likes the reaction he gets using strong pin placements.

WRW also has more of an end over end type of roll which is also more controllable on the back ends.  Combine that with his faster ball speed and dead nuts accuracy and you got one tough bowler!

 




Edited on 11/27/2008 7:50 PM
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: NOTHUMB on November 27, 2008, 06:56:33 PM
I typically steer clear of these conversations---but I saw someone said "His ability to repeat shots".

As a quote from someone who watched alot of games WRW bowled and fed him equipment (as Walter typically has very little idea when it comes to this)---"Walter has an amazing ability to change something in the middle of his shot to adjust for a mistake"....

Meaning---when he pulls it, his hand will often end up behind the ball so the ball holds line. And when he misses out, he tends to get his hand more around the ball. The "typical" bowler is the exact opposite. If they miss in, their hand ends up on top of the ball, so there is no layoff. And when they miss right, they tend to have their hand more open.

His mistakes are backwards to everyone and they result in him being what he is. A fabulous bowler with a great ability to know what his body is doing at all times.

Note this is not to discount his accuracy---but there are more accurate players on tour from just hitting a mark standpoint. What he does, opens up so much for him that others cant.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: DON DRAPER on November 27, 2008, 07:16:05 PM
walter ray williams, jr., has very little idea when it comes to equipment ? i find it hard to believe that a man with his professional bowling experience and a bachelor of science degree in physics has little knowledge of the tools of his trade. this is illogical.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: on November 27, 2008, 07:20:43 PM
http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=39
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on November 27, 2008, 07:20:59 PM
quote:
walter ray williams, jr., has very little idea when it comes to equipment ? i find it hard to believe that a man with his professional bowling experience and a bachelor of science degree in physics has little knowledge of the tools of his trade. this is illogical.


You would actually think that would be the case due to the obvious reasons you pointed out, but actually he has been quoted as saying that he knows nothing about equipment for the most part.

I find it hard to believe, but he has said it before.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: DrillLord on November 27, 2008, 07:37:17 PM
Bottom Line....

WRW has less than 10 degrees of rotation on his typical release.
On difficult shots, this keeps the ball from over-reacting when it hits the dry and allows it to slide a little more in oil.

You can have 400+ revs and if you have less than 10 degrees of rotation on your ball, it will look like you are throwing it straight.

For those of you that think pin-up drillings are weak, I invite you to watch me throw my Mohave with the pin about 1.5" above my ring finger.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: DynoMo on November 27, 2008, 07:38:06 PM
Here are a couple of pics from last year's win at Taylor Lanes.

http://www.brunswickinsiders.com/PBA%20Tournaments/02Taylor/PhotosTaylor/photosbowlingballs/winningball.jpg

http://www.brunswickinsiders.com/PBA%20Tournaments/02Taylor/PhotosTaylor/walterballweek2.jpg

Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: onlybowling on November 27, 2008, 07:45:02 PM
Perhaps Walter Ray may have been quoted when he was in a mood to give less info about his point of view  - he has been quoted many times about surface - he does not give any specific info - he just says something about - more or less surface or shine -....I have noticed that Walter Ray does not usually lead in the beginning of a tournament but that his ball reaction gets better as the days go by - Do you think he tweaks the surface on his selected balls every day until he gets it right?  I think he could write a book about surface adjustments, and how he uses core power to help him win matches.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: NOTHUMB on November 27, 2008, 07:57:32 PM
onlybowling---I think you'd be surprised if Walter was left to his own devices. Im not knocking him. Some are good with the physical, some are good with the science, and some are good with both. But Walter relies a ton on his ball reps. Alot of the pros do---but he does moreso than most.

This isnt an opinion based post---this is how it is.

Again, Im not doing this to start an argument. Just Walter has said as much and I've talked to his ball reps in the past. I know people want to give people their full respect---I respect his game more than most. Just saying, that ball reps are there for a reason. Some use them less than others.
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Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: chitown on November 28, 2008, 07:56:51 AM
I personally feel WRW says he doesn't know much about drill layouts and such so he doesn't have to constantly answer questions about it.  I could be wrong but I doubt that a PBA player with a physics degree doesn't understand layouts?  I don't buy it!

He has said many times that he prefers pin placements in the 1 or 2 o'clock position.  He has also said he does rely more on surface than anything.  We all know the ball surface is the most important part of the balls reaction.

I also believe his ball reps do help him a lot.  They know what pin placements he likes.  It's rare that you ever see WRW use a ball with the pin over the fingers.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: DON DRAPER on November 28, 2008, 09:07:32 AM
i see walter ray as sort of a mystery. he'd like us to believe he has little knowledge of bowling balls and their technology. i think he has a full grasp of what's at stake. maybe he feels this attitude is helpful when it comes to what is going thru the mind of your opposition.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: PLM on November 28, 2008, 09:39:50 AM
I am certainly no Walter Ray Williams, but there are times when I throw the ball much straighter.  For me, anyway, this is accomplished by getting my hand more behing the ball and throwing it with far less side roll.  Since it is not going to hook nearly as much, I find that I have to lift out of it strongly so it will still have a little snap on the backend.  If I don't, then it will not finish enough on the back end to carry well.  I throw a lot more slowly than WRW does (I am probably @ 16 mph), so I can see how he would have to hit hard on it, or he would get no movement at all.  
It seems to me the goal here is to create some angle of entry but not so much as to make the shot as difficult to control as a bigger hook can be.  An example: I have done some bowling on the Cheetah pattern.  I like to play first arrow on this pattern and I can do it in one of two ways.  I can throw a urethane ball with as much hand as I can possibly put on it, and it will carry fairly well.  Or, I can use a reactive ball and throw it straight with this reduced side roll.  It finishes more strongly than the urethane ball and with better carry.  The problem, of course, is if I get just a little too far around the ball, it will go high.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: Michbowler on November 28, 2008, 11:00:51 AM
He's getting on a roll now in match play.  300, 279, 23/24 strikes.  Look out.
Title: Re: Walter Ray
Post by: LuckyLefty on November 29, 2008, 06:24:02 PM
Winning posts to PLM and Chitown.

High speed and about 20 degrees axis rotation.

That's the straight ticket!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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