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Author Topic: walter ray williams, jr.  (Read 3725 times)

DON DRAPER

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walter ray williams, jr.
« on: August 21, 2005, 10:08:26 AM »
i see age isn't slowing walter ray williams, jr., down. he won a regional title this weekend in st. petersburg, florida. after beating ritchie allen 261-209, and 258-202 in the round of 16 he then beat jason hurd 268-210 and 234-189. he then beat steve wilson 279-212 in the round of 4. the title match was only slightly tougher as he beat david hungate 238-212. with the exception of hungate the players he defeated were pba national tournament winners.

 

morpheus

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2005, 08:59:56 AM »
GREG HOPPE proved my point, it's been a while since he won playing inside.  As for being the best ever...I'll concede he is the best in the reactive era.  In ten full years on tour, prior to reactives, he won six titles which is very respectable making him one of the top players on tour.  In the ten years following the introduction of reactives, he won twenty-eight titles starting with seven titles in 1993 when Ebonite released the Crush/R.  In the five years prior to 1993, he won one title.  Personally, I think WRW is one of the top five all-time, but I think it's wrong that he is considered the best ever.  In fact, think about what WRW has done is his career that no other individual sport athlete has ever done.  He was a good player for the first half of his career and suddenly became the most dominant player in the history of his sport.  All I'm saying is, without reactives, there's no way he wins 40+ titles.  And for those of you that think I'm an armchair quarterback, I bowled on tour in the early 90's and I have won regional titles...so I know a little about the game.
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Wylie

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2005, 09:09:20 AM »
Ok, Who cares where he plays on the lane!!!  He can score and he can win.  It doesn't matter if he is throwing down 1 or swinging it out 20 boards.  The last time I checked, it was all about scoring.  It doesn't matter how you score, just that you do.  It's not always about cranking the piss out of it.  WRW obviously knows how to score and is one of the best.
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azus

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2005, 09:31:15 AM »
quote:
When was the last time WRW won a tournament playing inside of the second arrow?


If he wins a tournament playing first arrow is he bad then? Are you a complete idiot? Is it cool to play deep lines? Walter Ray plays the lines he like the best and whats good on that lane.

LuckyLefty

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2005, 09:38:45 AM »
I think he has looked pretty good with Track stuff for a couple of years(phenom unleashed in particular) and also looked good with his duo of Icon and Icon 2 for a while.

He's great!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Phillip Marlowe

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2005, 09:42:58 AM »
Here is my 11 cents.  I have written and asked WRW about his style and he was nice enough to write me back and explain how he plays and why he plays where he plays.  He came to the conclusion that winning on the tour consistently was, for him, a matter of accuracy and speed control.  He decided that if possible, he would cover fewer, rather than more boards to preserve more hit and to reduce the severity of his misses.  He can hook the lane, but he prefers not to and, because the the versatility of his end over end roll and his speed control, generally can find a straighter line to the pocket.  His "strike" percentage is among the highest on the tour.

While I maintain that Anthony was the greatest bowler I have ever seen, WRW is the only one who can be mentioned in the same breath.  He has the odd combinations of humility and arrogance, self-understanding and external focus, and absurdly honed hand-eye coordination to make him arguably the Jack Nicklaus of his sport.  Pure, unbleached brilliance.  Watch it and accept the privilege of seeing greatness.  It does not come around often.
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Strider

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2005, 01:02:44 PM »
Look at Norm Duke lately.  He rarely hooks the ball a lot on TV anymore.  We all know he can play anywhere, but maybe the combination of (more or less)  fresh oil and TV lights make the outside more attractive for the "beat your opponent or go home" mentality that is needed.  Maybe you trade two flat 10's for an unmakeable 2-8-10.  Maybe you could average higher from further inside over the long haul, but that's not what you need on TV.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2005, 01:14:21 PM »
"The Priveledge of seeing greatness"

I like those words.

I have thought that as I have watched Sam Snead golf, Greg Louganis dive,
Michael Jordan basket, Ben Wallace team play, Earl and Walter bowl, Joe Montana quarterback.  Bobby Jones play effortless golf from tapes!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS there was just somethin they all had.  The ability to do the very difficult and make it look very easy.
PPS Clearly there are so many greats even in my medium length lifetime to never be forgotten.  Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, Gary Player, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, saw Don Carter tapes, Dave Davis(=Sam Snead of bowling), Roger Clemons, Nolan Ryan, Walter Davis in basketball..... on and on, Bob Gibson, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente, Bobby Bonds, Reggie Jackson!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2005, 01:24:46 PM »
AND logic tells us that under most conditions, one can generate more attack angle to the pocket outside than we can from inside.  

Inside requires more hand, more revs.... more sophisticated timing to make it work!  USUALLY.

If one has the speed to play outside it makes one heck of a lot of sense!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

morpheus

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2005, 04:09:05 PM »
Mr. Hanson,
Is it ok that a player can so drastically alter the scoring environment?  The reason he burns the pattern outside is because his ball hits like a turd inside the second or third arrow.  Back to what I said in my earlier post...without reactives, he is a good player, probably a hall of famer...but no way he's the best in the history of the game.  

Is it coincidence that he won one title in five years prior to the introduction of reactives and then proceeded to be the most dominant player in history?
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omegabowler

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2005, 04:46:53 PM »
man, jealousy is a ugly thing!

so what if he can only win straight up the boards? why is that a bad thing?
many urethane pro's gave up after resin.

yes resin makes higher scores. but the old urethane days demanded a higher level of action on the ball and it is not easy to change your game after you have been doing that way for 100 of games a week for a decade.

so he went in a slump. so what.

if you spent your time out learning to play a breakpoint instead of bashing those that can on a message board you might actual achieve a national title. it's not how you get to the correct entry angle but how often.

it is so wrong to bash someone who has been at the top and at the bottom and risen as a champion the likes of which we may never see again.

you show that you are mental weak and maybe a sports shrink may help you be a competitor.



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twister

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2005, 05:46:36 PM »
If everyone thinks he can't hook the ball wait til he get "The Machine" in his hands and he'll probably cover more boards than Robert Smith!
Scott Merritt
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morpheus

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2005, 05:52:52 PM »
Why do you guys personally attack me?  I am merely stating my opinion and the facts presented by WRW's career statistics.  His winning percentage for 1983-1992 was 1.88%.  After the introduction of reactives, that number increased to 10.57% for 1992-2001 and his other stats for cashes ect are equally divergent.  Did WRW look like a Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus in the first half of his career?  Athletes don't just become the greatest in their respective sport half way through their career.  Without reactives, we aren't having this conversation.
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morpheus

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2005, 06:17:16 PM »
So Bob, do you think WRW just practiced real hard after the 1992 season and became the best player in the history of the game?  His first ten years on tour gave no hint that he would be the best ever...that just doesn't happen so the logical mind would look for another factor that contributed to a sudden rise to greatness.
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jonah300

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2005, 12:37:54 AM »
i ll say 2 things:
number one people that said he can only win playing and outside shot have never watch him bowl...2 weeks ago in caseleberry i bowl in the same pair with him on a flatt pattern he starts in the 2 board and score something like 1160 on 6 (really tough shot the cut was in 190),then he move to 26th bopard and score 249-268 to lesad the field after match play... i know you can not really understand how a player with his mechanics can be that freaking good...but believe me  HE IS.
He is a machine i mean he repeat the same angle,speed,almost every frame
and second for those guys that said that he can only win in the inside shot (thing thats not true,there a lot of tournaments to proove that),when was the last time you saw tommy jones or amleto winning without playing an inside shot? why is it bad for walter that he mostly plays on the outside but amleto and tommy jones are great player because they only bowl inside ????
AND I AM A CRANKER

Pinbuster

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2005, 07:59:27 AM »
Morpheous - who’s record are you looking at?  

Prior to resin (1992) Walter Ray won 6 titles, a player of the year, and over $100k 4 years, and 41 TV appearances. That would be considered an outstanding career for most pro bowlers.

I discount his first two years as he was a part time player. Virtually every player out there will tell you it takes several years of touring to learn how to excel.

As he reached his early 30’s, generally the 30’s are a bowlers peak performance times, he started winning more.

How much of his surge was fueled by resin? I don’t know and neither does anyone else.

Did he adapt to resin or resin fit his game better than many of the other players out there? Possibly so but so what? Every change in the scoring environment has helped some set of bowlers and hurt others. Adapt or you get left behind.

I have seen him play any part of the lane. If memory serves me right he won the US open a couple years back playing around third arrow.

The biggest thing is the respect he has from the other touring pro’s. Whether they like him personally or not they all respect his abilities.

Arguments on whether he is the greatest of all time can have merit on both sides but the mere fact that his name is mentioned in those arguments says that he is one of the all time greats.