Author Topic: Wes Malott=Choker?? (Read 11810 times)

tonybowls · « **on:** December 09, 2007, 10:13:18 PM »

For all you Chris Barnes haters I have a question. Is Wes Malott a choker? 2-6 lifetime in TV Finals. 15 times made TV and only 2 titles. So I'm wondering why he doesn't take some heat for not winning more. Maybe some of you bowling guru's can fill me in on this.

Monster Pike · « **Reply #46 on:** December 10, 2007, 01:00:26 PM »

If he needs a 7 pin spare or another very makeable spare & blows it, that would be choking. Or needing a strike & not even hitting the 1-3 pocket, that might be considered choking. But throwing it right in the pocket? That's not choking. It takes a more precise shot to get a strike than to pick up a 1 pin spare. Now, you can talk about his lack of adjustment on the left lane where he left the 2-8 a couple times, but other than that he was pretty much bowling a decent game & hung in the match until the end.
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Just grip it & rip it!

Platinum Bowler · « **Reply #47 on:** December 10, 2007, 01:27:45 PM »

IMHO, this nails it...

quote:
Malott was a choker early in his TV career when he had problems with the foul line against Liz Johnson and threw it in the gutter on the TV pattern against Tommy Jones. This season, his two losses in championship matches aren't because he choked them away. In Indiana against Haugen, he lost because of a couple of ringing 10s and the transition got him last night.

Barnes, on the other hand, needs good count and a mark to win and throws a bad shot for 7 to lose the match. Barnes has "earned" his choker status over the years, Wes just hasn't got the breaks. His time will come.

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B-Car

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #48 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:24:11 PM »

wes malott is a top player----a choker ? hardly. chris barnes...a choker ? he's one of the best for the past 10 years. i suppose walter ray williams, jr., is a choker since he didn't win again ?

« **Reply #49 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:52:02 PM »

None of these guys are "chokers". It has everything to do being HUMAN and also the fact that the competition is also extremely talented.

Sometimes we're bowling and things just "fall into place" and other times we seem to work really hard but don't always score. That's life.

These guys are also bowling on very tough patterns where missing target by one board can make a huge difference, as opposed to your typical house shot.

Every one of them who is honest with himself and others will admit that there's also some "luck" (good and bad) in bowling.

"Choking" is not a word that these guys use or understand, or they simply would not be where they are. Their mental games are tough because they've been through the fire so many times, and yet still relish the opportunity to compete on difficult shots, with the whole country watching. No, these guys are very, very good.

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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah

CHawk15 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 10, 2007, 11:10:54 PM »

Maybe the term "choker" is a bit harsh, but there are several players on tour that are different bowlers on TV than they are during the week. Chris Barnes is the poster boy for this unfortunately IMHO. Don't get me wrong, Barnes is one of the smartest and most versatile bowlers on the tour today. That being said, the fact that he's been on somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 shows and only has a handful of titles to show for it says something. Barnes tends to overthink and overanalyze things on TV day, there have been several times where I believe he outsmarted himself. Example, last year at the Denny's World Championship, he had a pretty good look in the semi-final match with a Big Shot, but in the title match on one of the lanes, he switches bowling balls (to an Apogee, I believe) and proceeds to lose that lane for half of the title match before switching back to the Big Shot. That move probably cost him the match. I'm sure he saw something in practice that made him believe it was the right move, but it backfired on him. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough for people to notice. There are several other guys that are as bad or worse (Brad Angelo and Mike Scroggins come to mind) on TV day.

ccrider · « **Reply #51 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:14:28 PM »

High Horse? Hardly. Don't confuse arrogance with intelligence.

When it boils down to it, bowling is a somewhat simple game. If I had been bowling 20 years, it would not change the validity or invalidity of what I have said. However, those of you who are mentally challenged and lack the ability to respond to a valid argument, are left with your only recourse --- weak personal attacks. Sadly, I see this all too often from certain members on this board. Of course, this is America and I would not deprive you of your right to free speech, although it does not add much to the discussion.

The fact is that some people have to deal with, and thus better understand, what it is to deal with pressure on a daily basis. Pressure can and does effect how one performs. Some people choke under pressure; some blossom. Clearly, Wes and all of the bowlers who make the show, have progressed through various levels of pressure situations. But that begs the question to some extent. Historically, Wes has not performed well on stage. Some of you may think its bad luck, I think "2 and 15" is a result of the pressure.

,

quote:
Malot two weeks ago throws absolute beautiful shot dead flush and leaves ringing ten and loses to Haugen. Was that a choke? No way. Choking is throwing a bad shot when it is on the line. Bad break is not carrying when you do perform. Calling any pro a choker is just a joke. Wait until you get up there and have to make a ten pin to win a $1,000 tourney. Or have to throw a strike for your first 300. Multiply that by a factor of 1000 when the ABC Masters is on the line or a tour exemption is on the line.

ccrider, get off your high horse. Your posts come off as arrogant. Tone it down a bit and people might try to see your view point. I will be totally honest and tell you that I cannot take a guy a guy serious when they have only bowled for one year and has a five ball "arsenal" with six more waiting to be drilled up. Tells me you are not experienced enough to understand what choking in bowling is really all about. My opinion.

86camaroman · « **Reply #52 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:29:04 PM »

I will put it simple. Pros are only human. No matter how many times you have been there at one point or another it is possible to choke. The first show wes made he didnt choke he threw a great shot and left a 10 pin but this last one I would say his nerves got to him. It happens to everyone the more you are there the less it will happen with experience. But again it can and will happen to everyone. Heck I choked last night front 11 then throw an 8 count on a horrible shot. I was just too nerveous and choked. When you are dealing with humans it can and will happen at some time. We are not machines we have emotions

BowlingWolf · « **Reply #53 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:38:42 PM »

Seems like there's only one intelligent poster on this particular thread, and if he says that Wes choked, well, by Golly, Wes choked, and the rest of us don't have a clue.

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Regards,
BowlingWolf

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #54 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:45:10 PM »

I think of Tom Kite as analgous to Chris Barnes.

Kite A great qualifier...and a great major player as long as he didn't have a real chance to win...then finally he won a big one the US open and this cleared his record with the fans....but...frankly he would get tight on the final day.

I believe there are so many levels of choking and types that many people don't understand what they are seeing.

I really know golf so I'll try to make my analogies there.

Mike Weir....a crooked driver of the golf ball with a small technique flaw....sometimes looks unflappable and then he gets in trouble of the tee a few times and it snowballs out of control. Then beats Tiger in match play in the Presidents cup.

Greg Norman a great driver of the golf ball with a technique flaw in his iron game....right to rights when swinging hard at it and doesn't know how to fix it! Loses a bunch of majors when the premium is on precision to the greens and his short game can't bail him out. Note I made some money on Norman's 96 master's collapse and the bet was placed when he had a 12 shot lead on Faldo!
(I like Norman and was rooting FOR Him).

SO in bowling.....most of the time Chris Barnes would screw the ball in the lane and end up with a split due to the decreased velocity. Now he seems to throw it better and just be throwing balls that are great for the early session but not enough backend for the conditions of TV?? My view.

As to Wes Malott. The shots he throws under pressure look great to me. So languid and relaxed and no pull(the usual mistake of all who are tight).

But maybe they are just a little wider a little softer(that's why they recover so well) than usual and end up giving him those ringing 10s and 9 pins he seems to get when he throws well at the end of the match.

REgards,

LUckylefty
PS he sure looks good to ME while under pressure that Wes Malott!

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Danes07 · « **Reply #55 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:56:20 PM »

quote:
quote:
You know, according to your logic, ccrider, everyone who doesn't shoot a 300 every single game is a choker...

Wrong again. According to my logic, when one needs 10 to win, and he throws 9 or less, he choked.

Or, if one needs 161 to win, and he bowls 154, he choked. The person that bowls the 161 did what he needed to do to finish.

My allegiance to Wes is not newly founded. There was a post on here months ago and and I stated then that I thought Wes would be the best this year, if he conquered his nerves.

Again, I would like to know whether the robot chokes regularly, or if, as I have read, when one throws the ball right, all ten pins fall.

So, by your logic...I get up in the 10th frame needing a strike to win. I execute my shot perfectly and hit dead flush in the hole and leave the ringing 10 pin of all time....that makes me a choker?

If you want to believe this, by all means go right ahead....the rest of us centered in reality know the difference between making a good shot and getting tapped and letting the pressure get to you and making a poor shot.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #56 on:** December 12, 2007, 07:50:45 AM »

I would believe if throwbot was adjusted slightly during the game he could be set up to throw a 300 nearly ever time!

Are they just throwing the same line??

In fact with a little intelligent application he could be programed and adjusted to shoot 900 every few sets! I THINK!

REgards,

LUckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

BowlingWolf · « **Reply #57 on:** December 12, 2007, 09:33:32 AM »

quote:
I would believe if throwbot was adjusted slightly during the game he could be set up to throw a 300 nearly ever time!

Are they just throwing the same line??

In fact with a little intelligent application he could be programed and adjusted to shoot 900 every few sets! I THINK!

REgards,

LUckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

While the possibility of throwbot throwing 300s and 900s with human aided adjustments certainly appears feasible due to the machine's uncanny accuracy, there exist a couple of elements that might just mess up that equation.

For one thing, the human operators would have to make perfect adjustments, and again, not even the best pros can do that, and secondly, even if every adjustment was perfect, every shot would need to be a strike, which as we know (except perhaps for one very obdurate respondent on this thread that rejects logical replies), is an accomplishment that is quite difficult to attain.

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Regards,
BowlingWolf

ccrider · « **Reply #58 on:** December 12, 2007, 07:02:23 PM »

It seems that some of you get it, and some of you can't. Pressure has an impact on how one performs. Either Wes has succombed to the pressure 13 out of 15 times on TV, or he needs to invest in a better rabbit's foot because its all about luck.

Again, for the mentally challenged, what does how long I have bowled have to do with the issue on the table. From an analytical standpoint, the answer is nothing. Wes has not come through on T.V., and this would be true, even if I had been bowling for 20 years.

What does how many bowling balls I have purchased have to do with whether Wes has chokes under pressure? If this matters, maybe Wes should contact me and ask me to purchase fewer or more balls. Your arguments in this regard are absurd.

I made no affirmative statement about the robot. I asked a question which has been answered.

I agree that showing up at the big dance time and time again does help some to improve on there performance. Maybe Wes will improve over time, maybe he will not.

Make whatever excuses you like. I still say, if you get up and throw 9 when you need 10, over and over again, while your opponent makes 10 when he needs it and beats you, you are choking. This presumes that one has the talent and ability to make the shot, but fails to execute and make the shot. Clearly, Wes having the talent is not an issue.

It can't be a "perfect" shot if you leave a pin. It may look perfect, but the "perfect" shot knocks ten pins down. I agree, the "perfect" shot changes based on lane conditions. However, these guys are the elite and it is their job to read and adjust to the changes. This is not easy. It was not meant to be. The best of the elite figure it out and outperform the rest over time. Wes has not done this to date. I happen to think that his failure to do so is not based on his inability to do it. I think it is his nerves.

Also, I don't take pity for any of you who do not have the mental discipline to address argument, and regress to personal attacks. I find it quite amusing. The bad thing is, those of you who do this don't seem to understand that you serve no purpose in addressing the matter on the table.

Last, I laugh at the remark about being backed or painted into a corner. Get real. We are talking about bowling. This is a game. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Now, for all of you that say that Wes has not choked on T.V., why is he 2 and 15??? Bad luck. If so, let's buy him a new good luck charm, the same model that WRW, PW or ND uses. If not, let's give him time and see if he conquers his nerves, because that is clearly the only thing holding him back.

quote:
Believe me, I know the difference between arrogance and intelligence. It is always the psuedo-intellegencia that hides behind the oh-so sanctimonius attitude of taking pity on us poor un-washed wretches who can only hope to comprehend one tenth of what your true genius has to offer us.

Say what you will. You still have only bowled for a year. You still are trying to buy a game as evidenced by your truly wonderous arsenal.

So.....I don't know if you are just young and because of your callowness has been ineffectively trying to prove your point or if you are older guy who has foolishly painted himself in a corner and is kicking himself for doing so when he knows better.

PS You can look all these words up in a dictionary if you don't understand them, ccrider.

charlest · « **Reply #59 on:** December 13, 2007, 05:56:39 AM »

ccrdier wrote:

quote:

Luckylefty

You may be correct, but I must ask, if the ball is thrown correctly, will it strike. Or, is there some unknown force that will stop a properly thrown ball from striking. I know men are not machines. But, I was under the impression that if the ball is thrown correctly to the pocket, all of the pins will fall, and if they don't fall, there was a problem with how the ball was thrown. The problem could be speed, angle to the pocket,etc.

Asked a different way, what percentage of balls strike when being shot by a robot? Do they habitually leave ringing 10's or eight pins?
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

[/quote]

This does reflect that you are very new to bowling. Observation over time will let you see that many, many balls thrown that look absolutely dead perfect will leave a stoned 7, 8, 9, or 10 pins PLUS sometimes the ball will hit that first patch of carrydown never before seen on that lane and will therefore hit light to sometimes carry a swishing strike but may more often leave almost anything from a 2 to 4 to 7 pin to possible 7 - 10.

All that does not detract from the fact that the bowler did NOT choke and did execute almost a perfect release hitting his target with excellent release and ball speed.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

charlest · « **Reply #60 on:** December 13, 2007, 06:09:22 AM »

quote:
quote:
You know, according to your logic, ccrider, everyone who doesn't shoot a 300 every single game is a choker...

Wrong again. According to my logic, when one needs 10 to win, and he throws 9 or less, he choked.
...
Again, I would like to know whether the robot chokes regularly, or if, as I have read, when one throws the ball right, all ten pins fall.

You are wrong as I already replied above. There are too many circumstances where 9 is as godd as you will ever get. There is just too much luckinvovled with getting a strike, even with a perfect delivery.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Author Topic: Wes Malott=Choker?? (Read 11810 times)

tonybowls

Wes Malott=Choker??

Monster Pike

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Platinum Bowler

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DON DRAPER

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CHawk15

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ccrider

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86camaroman

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BowlingWolf

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LuckyLefty

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Danes07

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LuckyLefty

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BowlingWolf

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ccrider

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charlest

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charlest

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