Author Topic: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA (Read 6961 times)

K_Korner · « **on:** April 01, 2004, 05:36:25 PM »

Justin Warhol Recently won a spot in the PBA Regional at Patchogue Bowl on March 4th, 2004. He used an Ultimate Inferno drilled by The Perfect Fit. He then bowled in the Regional and qualified 11th to make it into the finals. In his first round of match play, he was leading 1-0. He seemed to be a lock to win the match, when the tournament director approached him in the middle of the second game, in which he was also leading. he was told that the Master Wrister that he was wearing was not a PBA sponsored item. He was forced to take it off and fined $100 for his actions. He could not bowl properly after that because his wrist was weakened by the removal of the Wrister and wound up losing the match. We then looked at the packaging for the Master Wrister and it had the PBA logo on it. What does this mean? Should he have been forced to take it off even though the packaging said "PBA sponsored item"? We looked closer at the packaging and it said, "Copyright 2001." Now whose fault is this? Do we blame Master for not updating their packaging? Justin was a first time PBA Regional bowler and the director had mentioned that the rules of the tournament were on-line and should be read before bowling. What if someone doesn't have on-line access (There are still a few people without it)? In conclusion, Justin lost the chance to maybe place higher in the tournament and collect a larger check.
Bowling is Justin's life, that is his career, he is very good at it. He is extremely down on bowling anymore PBA sponsored events. To lose someone like this for the future of the tournament and the future of the PBA would be a disgrace because of something that was the fault of the Manufacturer. Feedback please. Thanks for reading.

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Shonk · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2004, 01:47:04 PM »

My PBA #022227 - and I have a question concerning PBA Approved Equipment. Justin Warhol was recently fined in a NW regional, and forced to remove the unapproved item, when it was noticed that he was wearing a "Master" wrist support. Although "Master" is not on the PBA approved equipment list, neither are Mongoose and Robby's. By looking at the approved equipment listing (on the PBA website), there are no companies approved who produce wrist supports with the exception of Storm. Under rule #23, do wrist supports fall under the definition of "equipment"? Please explain why or why not.

Merriam Websters states that "equipment" is:

1 a : the set of articles or physical resources serving to equip a person or thing: as (1) : the implements used in an operation or activity : APPARATUS (2) : all the fixed assets other than land and buildings of a business enterprise (3) : the rolling stock of a railway b : a piece of such equipment
2 a : the equipping of a person or thing b : the state of being equipped
3 : mental or emotional traits or resources : ENDOWMENT

My concern is that there are only a handful of companies that produce wrist supports that actually function properly, why has the PBA chosen to not support Robby's, Mongoose, and Master as PBA approved equipment?

Doug Shonkwiler
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co.
System Design Engineer Sr.
(817)777-3609
22/3/D8
douglas.d.shonkwiler@lmco.com

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Shonk

Shonk · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2004, 01:48:08 PM »

The above e-mail was sent to the PBA Legal Department for review.
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Shonk

channel surfer · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2004, 02:18:21 PM »

My dad was wearing a wrister on his first pba regional, they told him to take it off. I guess it didnt bother him to much.

The wrister DOES work. I used one myself for about 2 years when I had wrist pains, bad ones. My dad bought me the wrister and it cured it while i was bowling. I no longer use it now because those pains went away after adjustments.
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michelle · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2004, 02:23:00 PM »

quote:

My concern is that there are only a handful of companies that produce wrist supports that actually function properly, why has the PBA chosen to not support Robby's, Mongoose, and Master as PBA approved equipment?

Easy answer there...it isn't up to the PBA to support them, it is up to the manufacturer to pay whatever fee the PBA charges. Unless things have changed, you become a manufacturer of an approved product when you write a rather large check to the boys and girls in Seattle.

Same principle held true in the PWBA, but the checks were not quite as large from my understanding of the registration requirements.

WRT Robby's, I thought they fell under the Ebonite umbrella, but looking at the list I may have my companies mixed up...perhaps not enough guys using braces to justify the registration?

Platinum Bowler · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2004, 04:26:09 PM »

Now I may be wrong, but doesnt PDW wear a golf glove when he bowls? Im pretty sure a glove is considered equipment, if a wrist supporter is. And I really doubt the PBA is sponsored by a golf company. And I understand somewhat letting some companys stuff to be used by the bowlers and not others due to sponsorship, but yet I think its also kind of bogus.
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B-Car

K_Korner · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2004, 11:58:08 PM »

Wow, I guess I stirred up a good topic. thanks for all of the insight. Having never bowled in a regional event, if I do, I know what to do now. Correct, Justin may have gotten what he deserved, but if you are right about PDW wearing a golf glove, is it because of his Name? Is that why you let him wear it? Do you bend the rules for the better bowlers? Also, why couldn't they just make him take it off? He bowled the whole qualifying round with it. After losing the first game and being down 20 in the 6th frame of the 2nd game, the opponent saw the wrist device and complained. That is the reason Justin got fined and was forced to remove it.
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UCFKnight300 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2004, 12:35:32 AM »

I don't think it has anything to do with bending the rules for Weber. I am pretty sure his glove has no logos and therefore does not advertise another product. That is the main concern for the PBA, they don't want to advertise someones product and not be compensated for it. A friend of mine bowled a regional a couple weeks ago and he was not allowed to use his Minnie Mouse spare ball. Yes it sounds funny and he got the ball as a joke, but they said it promotes disney products and isn't allowed, even though it is made by brunswick, go figure. So it's their tour if you want to bowl in it you must comply.

Mike
-UCF-

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #23 on:** April 03, 2004, 12:51:47 AM »

Would Tape over the MasterLogo have worked!

Again what does any of this have regarding giving an unfair advantage to an opponent. Answer = nothing! That is why pure crap.

REgards,

Luckylefty

seadrive · « **Reply #24 on:** April 03, 2004, 09:26:19 AM »

quote:
Again what does any of this have regarding giving an unfair advantage to an opponent. Answer = nothing! That is why pure crap.

LL, it has nothing to do with giving someone an advantage. It's about sponsors and money, nothing more, nothing less.

Personally, although I understand the rule, I think it should only apply to televised events. Who really gives a rat's hind quarters if someone uses a non-sponsored product in a regional viewed by, what, 50 people? Who cares?

But, the rule is the rule, and this guy should have made himself aware of the rules before competing. Shake it off, forget it, let it go.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl

bass · « **Reply #25 on:** April 03, 2004, 10:25:03 AM »

Putting tape over the logo might have worked.
A few years ago you had to trim the tags of your pants(i.e. dockers) or blaken them out.
It was basically a running joke during roll call to look for offenders and have their pants "altered" before competition.
It's probably best to ask a tournament official about a product before using it in competition.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #26 on:** April 03, 2004, 10:54:38 AM »

I understand that Sea! That's why it's crap.

I can enter tournaments all the time where there is more money than regionals without having to put up with that crap! I wouldn't even waste my time unless it was the only thing in the world I could do for money! That's why there are so many great bowlers making a living just off brackets, pot games and tournaments in Vegas.

Now a sport that has some money like golf, well that's a different story.
If they told me I had to wear a Hairpiece with a logo Jimmy's Sushi Palace for that type of money I'd do it!

For $1,000 or $2,000 dollars at the first sign of BS like that I'm outta there!

REgards,

Luckylefty

seadrive · « **Reply #27 on:** April 03, 2004, 01:47:39 PM »

Okay LL, we're on the same page.

As I said, I think this sponsor stuff should only apply to televised tour stops. At the regional and senior (not televised for past two years) levels, you're right, it's a bunch of crap.

Also, the guy who complained about the Wrister in the 2nd game of the match, after losing the first game, comes off as a sore loser and a crybaby. I can't imagine pulling that kind of crap in the middle of a match.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #28 on:** April 04, 2004, 12:58:46 AM »

Oh, I can definitely see people pulling that in a match.

One of the greatest eye openers of my life came when I was in my early 20s.
I'd grown up at a local golf course playing with my Dad and always had been treated great by people, I was only a so so player.

After a few years in College I came back a much stronger player and became a member of this club that had 30,000 members(work oriented). In my first two weeks there I won the club championship, smokin some other well known players by quite a bit.

It was very exciting for me and many seemed very gracious. I was invited to play in the scratch league by the league secretary in the upcoming fall.
As I step up to the tee, this little guy the league secretary who had been runnerup in the tournament I won a couple times of about 25 years of trying. Cleared his throat as loud as he could during my backswing of my first shot in league.

I thought it was an accident. As the year went on this guy pulled similar crap repeatedly. He was the father of an acquaintance of mine from elementary school and a somewhat respected member of the work community. His position in the work community kept him from becoming rapidly horizontal.

I lost all respect for him and was quite happy to play with him as he contended for the title a couple of years later and in the final round while I didn't win I was able to watch him virtually self destruct while I roared near the top the final day. Him coughing and hacking many a time during mine and other players shots. It cleared up after the round. This man was a small, little mean unhappy person jealous of the success of others. Others that have this trait become smaller become smaller and pettier every day.

At that time I realized that many people will resent success and while others will truly share ones joy with them. It is quite the measure of a man where he fits in this spectrum!

Over the years I have gained some wonderful perspective on people and this is a defining trait of people that I enjoy. The ability to enjoy the success of others.

REgards,

Luckylefty

Shonk · « **Reply #29 on:** April 05, 2004, 09:03:24 AM »

Here is the e-mail I received from Kirk Von Kruegor, the PBA Tour Tournament Director:

Dear Mr. Shonkwiler,

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Yes, it is correct that Mongoose and Master are among those companies whose equipment is not cleared for use in PBA competition. However, Robby's (an Ebonite product), Columbia, Storm, Ebonite (main line) and Hi Sports (under the Storm umbrella) all make excellent products and offer wide variety of wrist supports and gloves.

The companies listed above have chosen to support the PBA by participating in the Product Registration Program. We in turn support those companies who have a vested interest in registering their products for use in PBA competition. To allow other, non-product registered equipment in PBA competition would not be in the best interest of those product registered companies who have stepped up to support the PBA.

I hope this satisfactorily answers all of your questions concerning the product registration policy. If you have further questions feel free to contact me directly at kirk.von.krueger@pba.com

Sincerely

Kirk von Krueger
Director, PBA Tour

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Shonk

Leftyhi-trak · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2004, 01:41:24 PM »

It just all depends on who you are or aren't. I still know Norm Duke used Asics bowling shoes and never had found them on the approved list. Why if your a non-member should you have to comply with any more than ball restrictions. If its a member understood, but the weekend warrior in it for one or two tourneys a year its a bit bogus and if it was his competitor who turned it into the director during the match I say he is a puss. Shoe up and let who's best settle the score. I believe in mental aspects but that is in poor standing in my estimation. I know it might mean you lose money but it has more to do for me than just the cash.

Author Topic: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA (Read 6961 times)

K_Korner

The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

Shonk

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

Shonk

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

channel surfer

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

michelle

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

Platinum Bowler

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

K_Korner

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

UCFKnight300

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

LuckyLefty

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

seadrive

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

bass

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

LuckyLefty

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

seadrive

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

LuckyLefty

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

Shonk

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA

Leftyhi-trak

Re: The Downfall of a possible New Member to the PBA