Author Topic: Medford stop??? (Read 8136 times)

sdbowler · « **on:** November 13, 2009, 06:41:41 AM »

Have any of you guys heard about this yet?http://www.pba.com/news/feature.asp?ID=1672
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Kyle

Krakken · « **Reply #31 on:** November 16, 2009, 01:23:50 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Krakken wrote: "People want to watch the best in the world, not who is hot that week."

That really hasn''''t been demonstrated to me - the low ratings of the PBA shows indicate the current format is not succeeding.

Now I personally like to see all my old favorites - but the PBA get''''s my viewership anyway.

You will still watch, but names are what drive the sport on TV. Have a few weeks with all relative "nobodys" on the show and watch the ratings plummet.

You don''''t want people turning on the TV going "Who is this?" Sure fire way to have them turn it off.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

Edited on 11/16/2009 9:25 AM

Not necessarily.

Sometimes, when a relative unkown that rises to the task, such as 2002 Masters champion Brett Wolfe, and 2009 Masters champion John Nolen, it creates rabid excitement into an otherwise mundane sport, due to their unexpected and spectacular performances.

--------------------
Wise men talk because they have something to say--Fools, because they have to say something.

Edited on 11/16/2009 10:37 AM

True, that is one guy on the show with a bunch of names. If it were all no ones then there would be ratings trouble.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

Curt_Dupre · « **Reply #32 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:49:22 PM »

quote:
Gee - things must be tough - I had hoped that last post would at least stir up some conversation.

The reason I called the PBA a touring circus is that the cards are stacked against the local competitors.

The pros travel with factory reps and so much equipment a local bowler feels like they brought one person to a team sport event.

Too even things out, I would much prefer:
1. You can bring a 4-ball bag in the house - that is what you can bowl with that day - this should help local bowlers some and add some brand interest relevant to league and recreation bowlers.
2. No practice on the pair where you will bowl next - warm up on other lane pairs.
3. No ball can have more surface than 500 Abralon.
4. #2 & #3 are designed to keep bowlers from throwing a 60 grit surface in practice then using completely different balls using the created out of bounds.
5. The tournament lane condition shall be the US Open lane condition - yep it will change and invert - so be it. Different houses will not play the same but it will even the playing field and make it simpler for the hosting house. The changing lane conditions will demand good ball choices. The limited number of balls available will result in less use of completely different arsenals on each lane. Bowlers will, as in the past, have to adjust their line and delivery.
6. Forget exempt spots, or lack there of, they have not helped the PBA survive.

Any suggestions?

Edited on 11/15/2009 12:13 PM

Do you really think this is the reason people do not bowl PBA events? How is this for example, even though the pba has the exempt tour they have had at least 4 to 5 OPEN tournaments. Did you see how many entries they get? Maybe 130 at most. This is not enough people. When the pba was in its heyday they had 300-400 every tournament hell probably more than that. A big problem to the sport is not whether the pba has coaches, so what if that was the case then all of the free agents out there would not bowl. League bowlers can't compete with the pros anymore. When the PBA was big in the 80s, everyone bowled on the so called house shot. When the pba bowled it was on their house shot, but it was a little tougher. BUT it wasn't such a huge gap that we have now. League bowlers bowl on a house shot which is 7 to 1 ratio. Its an easy shot people love to strike. But the PBA bowls on 3 to 1 ratios or lower. This is a huge gap. Bowlers have such a bigger learning curve than any other sport. I am 21 I have a regional title, and I am still not as good as any of those guys out there. But any other sport you can be 17 and be just as good as the pros. This is the big problem with bowling. THS are killing the game. If league shots were close to the pba shots, then we can have more participation in the PBA. Hopefully one day the USBC will implement all houses to have at most a 5 to 1 house shot. Maybe this can help.

Dave_in_Rio_Rancho · « **Reply #33 on:** November 16, 2009, 06:03:47 PM »

You raise some valid points, once again I feel I must take a different direction on this. I do agree with you on the gap and its causes, just not on the cure.

The PBA moved away from us, the US Open conditions have been long and flat for a very long time - this shot is the amateur gold standard the house shot is the sliver standard - I suppose recreational bowling is the bronze.

The PBA moved on to different standards, what I think of as the circus trick shot standard. Heck, they even have a trick shot event. The amateurs have not intentionally changed the conditions they bowl on with the obvious exception that modern materials are now used.

If the PBA wants our respect, bowl on our conditions - I find I really don''t care what they do on their conditions - it doesn''t directly relate to what we do on ours. Do I care how they manipulate and control the ball? - You bet, these guys and gals are true technicians. However, it is becoming like miniature golf putting versus actually putting on the greens - no comparison although both require skill and have some things in common.

Are the PBA guys good, darned straight. Are they better than the amateurs, yep as long as they have the home field advantage on conditions. The more versatile bowlers will win anywhere. Most of the pros would have to dial down their power to survive on house conditions - otherwise it would look like the Six Flags event. Would they win against the best in your house on the leopard pattern - spots of oil left here and there after the first game? Heck of question, might make a good tour.

Personally I would bet on the the pros but lets stir the troops up

!!!!!!!

Edited on 11/16/2009 7:06 PM

Krakken · « **Reply #34 on:** November 16, 2009, 06:32:41 PM »

quote:
quote:
Gee - things must be tough - I had hoped that last post would at least stir up some conversation.

The reason I called the PBA a touring circus is that the cards are stacked against the local competitors.

The pros travel with factory reps and so much equipment a local bowler feels like they brought one person to a team sport event.

Too even things out, I would much prefer:
1. You can bring a 4-ball bag in the house - that is what you can bowl with that day - this should help local bowlers some and add some brand interest relevant to league and recreation bowlers.
2. No practice on the pair where you will bowl next - warm up on other lane pairs.
3. No ball can have more surface than 500 Abralon.
4. #2 & #3 are designed to keep bowlers from throwing a 60 grit surface in practice then using completely different balls using the created out of bounds.
5. The tournament lane condition shall be the US Open lane condition - yep it will change and invert - so be it. Different houses will not play the same but it will even the playing field and make it simpler for the hosting house. The changing lane conditions will demand good ball choices. The limited number of balls available will result in less use of completely different arsenals on each lane. Bowlers will, as in the past, have to adjust their line and delivery.
6. Forget exempt spots, or lack there of, they have not helped the PBA survive.

Any suggestions?

Edited on 11/15/2009 12:13 PM

Do you really think this is the reason people do not bowl PBA events? How is this for example, even though the pba has the exempt tour they have had at least 4 to 5 OPEN tournaments. Did you see how many entries they get? Maybe 130 at most. This is not enough people. When the pba was in its heyday they had 300-400 every tournament hell probably more than that. A big problem to the sport is not whether the pba has coaches, so what if that was the case then all of the free agents out there would not bowl. League bowlers can't compete with the pros anymore. When the PBA was big in the 80s, everyone bowled on the so called house shot. When the pba bowled it was on their house shot, but it was a little tougher. BUT it wasn't such a huge gap that we have now. League bowlers bowl on a house shot which is 7 to 1 ratio. Its an easy shot people love to strike. But the PBA bowls on 3 to 1 ratios or lower. This is a huge gap. Bowlers have such a bigger learning curve than any other sport. I am 21 I have a regional title, and I am still not as good as any of those guys out there. But any other sport you can be 17 and be just as good as the pros. This is the big problem with bowling. THS are killing the game. If league shots were close to the pba shots, then we can have more participation in the PBA. Hopefully one day the USBC will implement all houses to have at most a 5 to 1 house shot. Maybe this can help.

Apples and oranges my man. Making the house shot tougher is not going to lead to more people watching the PBA, and isn't going to lead to better amateur bowler. All it will do is frustrate the marginal bowler and cause them to quit, which isn't good for bowling as a whole.

There are sport leagues for the better bowler that wants the challenge and house shot for the guys that want to hang out with buddies and score no matter how they throw the ball.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

Curt_Dupre · « **Reply #35 on:** November 16, 2009, 11:24:01 PM »

quote:
You raise some valid points, once again I feel I must take a different direction on this. I do agree with you on the gap and its causes, just not on the cure.

The PBA moved away from us, the US Open conditions have been long and flat for a very long time - this shot is the amateur gold standard the house shot is the sliver standard - I suppose recreational bowling is the bronze.

The PBA moved on to different standards, what I think of as the circus trick shot standard. Heck, they even have a trick shot event. The amateurs have not intentionally changed the conditions they bowl on with the obvious exception that modern materials are now used.

If the PBA wants our respect, bowl on our conditions - I find I really don''t care what they do on their conditions - it doesn''t directly relate to what we do on ours. Do I care how they manipulate and control the ball? - You bet, these guys and gals are true technicians. However, it is becoming like miniature golf putting versus actually putting on the greens - no comparison although both require skill and have some things in common.

Are the PBA guys good, darned straight. Are they better than the amateurs, yep as long as they have the home field advantage on conditions. The more versatile bowlers will win anywhere. Most of the pros would have to dial down their power to survive on house conditions - otherwise it would look like the Six Flags event. Would they win against the best in your house on the leopard pattern - spots of oil left here and there after the first game? Heck of question, might make a good tour.

Personally I would bet on the the pros but lets stir the troops up !!!!!!!

Edited on 11/16/2009 7:06 PM

So you are saying that the pba should bowl on house shots? This is a huge problem because it doesn't show who the better bowler is. Making good shots makes a better bowler. The tour is not a circus show. The best bowlers bowl on tour. The reason they have the patterns is to show how good they are. I take it you don't bowl in PBA events. The problem is that bowlers that think they are good, really aren't. The pro bowlers always used different patterns when they came into town on tour even in the 80s. The lane man would use a spray gun or whatever to put out a shot. So no they didn't use the house shot. This is the problem. People always want the pros to bowl on a house shot. A house shot levels the playing field. This is why the pba has its patterns. They are tough to bowl on. This makes a bowler make shots and spares. Not many people can do it. How about nationals, its now a sport shot. What should they do make it a house shot and then you will bowl? I mean its ridiculous. The reason no one watches the PBA is because house bowlers feel that they can beat the pros. They see the pros strike and they feel that they can do the same thing. In reality they can't PERIOD. The Pros are better but house bowlers never want to admit that. You know why people watch golf, its because they know that they can't hit a 300 yard drive. They know they can't make a hole in one. They know that they can't make those shots. This is the problem with our sport. Take away the house shots, and then people will realize how good the pros really are. But of course you rather them bowl on house shots.

Boos · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:36:12 AM »

I think most High average bowlers that think they are good are not. Agreed. But... what is wrong with them thinking that? They join 4 or 5 leagues. Bring money in the house by buying drinks and bowling open play. I am not good enough to be a pro but watch the Pros as much as I can. I average around 195 now. I used to average 213. But injuries have kept me from it. Let the big shots think they are all that. As long as they bowl and get others to join, let them be. We need MORE sanction Bowlers. Everyone needs to get involved and get people to have fun bowling. Not throw fits when they miss a spare or purposely throw away pins to hurt a team. Lower average bowlers don't want to see that garbage. They are out to have fun. If the big shots are so good they need to bowl in scratch leagues and tournaments.

Krakken · « **Reply #37 on:** November 17, 2009, 12:36:51 PM »

Brunswickballbowler it is obvious that you hate the house shots. That is fine, but saying the house shot being too easy is causing the PBA to fail is like saying your elbow hurts because you have an ear infection. They aren't related.

I played golf with my brother in law for the first time and I birdied the first hole. Immediately he said the same thing that people say about bowlers who shoot a 279 game in house league "you should be on the PGA/PBA tour" it happens in golf too.

House shots serve a purpose, they are there for recreational leagues. Mixed leagues, or Men's leagues that want to score well.

PBA X and sport leagues are there for bowlers who want the challenge, which you obviously do. If it drives you that nuts that the league shot is too easy, then don't bowl on it. If you don't like movies with Jim Carey then don't watch movies with Jim Carey.

Making the house shot harder will only drive some bowlers out of the sport(probably more than you think), and that would hurt bowling as a whole way more than the PBA folding.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

n00dlejester · « **Reply #38 on:** November 17, 2009, 12:54:22 PM »

Not to completely hijack said thread, but the whole THS being too easy argument has been addressed by the USBC with the institution of those Red, White, and Blue patterns starting in 2010.

http://www.bowl.com/news/xmlburner.jsp?xa=./webapps/ROOT/news/main/data/111309RedWhiteBlue.xml
--------------------
Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.

BrianCRX90 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:12:16 PM »

While I was tired of the PBA going to Medford every year only because I love going to see it live throughout the whole tour and want to see it every year in Dallas/Fort Worth this is horrible news. I do know everyone says Lava Lanes is a terrific center with a great owner and the tour members love it. This is getting to the point where someone needs to buy out the PBA and improve it.
Canceling Medford may not be the beginning of the end but the "series of bowling" certainly may be. I have faith the PBA will rebound.

BrianCRX90 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:16:37 PM »

I got to say the more Fred Schreyer speaks, the more I can't stand this man. Seriously grow a pair and do your job.

Curt_Dupre · « **Reply #41 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:30:57 PM »

quote:
Brunswickballbowler it is obvious that you hate the house shots. That is fine, but saying the house shot being too easy is causing the PBA to fail is like saying your elbow hurts because you have an ear infection. They aren't related.

I played golf with my brother in law for the first time and I birdied the first hole. Immediately he said the same thing that people say about bowlers who shoot a 279 game in house league "you should be on the PGA/PBA tour" it happens in golf too.

House shots serve a purpose, they are there for recreational leagues. Mixed leagues, or Men's leagues that want to score well.

PBA X and sport leagues are there for bowlers who want the challenge, which you obviously do. If it drives you that nuts that the league shot is too easy, then don't bowl on it. If you don't like movies with Jim Carey then don't watch movies with Jim Carey.

Making the house shot harder will only drive some bowlers out of the sport(probably more than you think), and that would hurt bowling as a whole way more than the PBA folding.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

I don't hate house shots as I bowl in three leagues a week. All I am saying is that house shots are detremental to the sport becoming better. Dave made a point saying that the pba should use house shots to bowl on. But that should not be the case because it doesn't show who the better bowler is. The whole argument I was talking about is why people do not watch bowling. I am trying not to make it about house shots suck. People don't watch bowling because they feel they are better than the pros. When you play golf do you think that you are better than Tiger Woods??? Well probably half of house hacks think they are better than all of the pros. Which of course is not the case. You know what maybe we would lose participation if we go to tougher shots, but it should happen because it will be the only thing to help bowling. Bowling will die as a whole not just the pba. So get off of thinking that I hate house shots, I was just saying that it will help bowling as a whole.

n00dlejester · « **Reply #42 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:35:16 PM »

quote:
Yeah but how many are actually going to use the red or blue patterns (I think those are the tougher patterns)

I think the leagues are going to be categorized for those interested. Beginners, intermediates, and majors. Personally, I would love to get the best in the county together for a scratch league on a trickier condition. We had a great turnout in the PBA Experience league around my area with some regular Regional players in the mix, so I am optimistic about the success of these patterns. I imagine the easier one will yield 230+ as highest averages, the middle will be 220-ish, and the hardest at 210-ish. That's just a generalization, I'm sure there will be a bowler or two who go bonkers and average 230 on the tricky ones too.
--------------------
Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.

TDC57 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:59:44 PM »

mumzie,

I think scratch competitions have went away because many scratch bowlers now either sandbag their averages to clean up in handicap tournaments (they do around here) or they are spending their money whacking all the "joe bowlers" at 9-pin tournaments which use to be the place where mainly handicap bowlers went. Now the big dogs spend ungodly amounts of money bowling in these tournaments, scores of times, to make sure they scavenge every penny they can.

Krakken · « **Reply #44 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:58:55 AM »

quote:
quote:
Brunswickballbowler it is obvious that you hate the house shots. That is fine, but saying the house shot being too easy is causing the PBA to fail is like saying your elbow hurts because you have an ear infection. They aren't related.

I played golf with my brother in law for the first time and I birdied the first hole. Immediately he said the same thing that people say about bowlers who shoot a 279 game in house league "you should be on the PGA/PBA tour" it happens in golf too.

House shots serve a purpose, they are there for recreational leagues. Mixed leagues, or Men's leagues that want to score well.

PBA X and sport leagues are there for bowlers who want the challenge, which you obviously do. If it drives you that nuts that the league shot is too easy, then don't bowl on it. If you don't like movies with Jim Carey then don't watch movies with Jim Carey.

Making the house shot harder will only drive some bowlers out of the sport(probably more than you think), and that would hurt bowling as a whole way more than the PBA folding.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

I don't hate house shots as I bowl in three leagues a week. All I am saying is that house shots are detremental to the sport becoming better. Dave made a point saying that the pba should use house shots to bowl on. But that should not be the case because it doesn't show who the better bowler is. The whole argument I was talking about is why people do not watch bowling. I am trying not to make it about house shots suck. People don't watch bowling because they feel they are better than the pros. When you play golf do you think that you are better than Tiger Woods??? Well probably half of house hacks think they are better than all of the pros. Which of course is not the case. You know what maybe we would lose participation if we go to tougher shots, but it should happen because it will be the only thing to help bowling. Bowling will die as a whole not just the pba. So get off of thinking that I hate house shots, I was just saying that it will help bowling as a whole.

Tell me how people quitting the sport will help bowling? Because that is exactly what will happen if you make the house shots harder.

The house hacks that think they are better than the pro's will never go away. Golf is a much harder sport than bowling, always has been always will be, so using that as an example isn't a great comparison. Bowling is uniquie i nthe fact that a lot of your recreational bowlers can strike multiple times a game even while drinking.

Look at Chris Paul's charity PBA event that was on TV last year? The NBA guys were striking more than the pros at one point. That was on a PBA shot not a house shot. Bowling is a unique sport in the sense that it is easier to succeed at in small increments than any other sport.

I wasn't trying to get under your skin, just from the tone of your e-mails you bash the house shot so much you give the indication that you hate how easy it is.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

Author Topic: Medford stop??? (Read 8136 times)

sdbowler

Medford stop???

Krakken

Re: Medford stop???

Curt_Dupre

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Dave_in_Rio_Rancho

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Krakken

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Curt_Dupre

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Boos

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Krakken

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n00dlejester

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BrianCRX90

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BrianCRX90

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Curt_Dupre

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n00dlejester

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TDC57

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Krakken

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