BallReviews
General Category => PBA => Topic started by: Juggernaut on December 03, 2008, 03:06:57 AM
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Wouldn't it be strange to have a woman bowling on T.V in the finals when the women have their own "womens series".
I mean, if the ladies want to bowl, let them do it. Get in their and beat the guys, earning your way into the show.
There are several of the girls out there who could do it. Liz Johnson, Kelly Kulick, Michelle Feldman, Missy Bellinder, Carolyn Dorin-Ballard are a few names that come to mind.
If you are going to let them into the regular tournament, then they shouldn't be having a "womens series" just to showcase the ladies and if you have a "womens series" specifically for them, they shouldn't be allowed in the regular tqr or tournament.
C'mon P.B.A., are the women regular members or not? And, if you have a "special" division for them, how long before you have to have an "special", hadicap division for men who can't compete at the top scratch level?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the ladies bowling. But I think they should either bowl as a regular member and have to qualify under the regular rules, or opt out and compete in the "womens series". I don't think you should be able to do both because the men don't have that option.
What made me start thinking is the fact that Liz Johnson is in second place after five games.
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Norm Duke was right
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Edited on 12/3/2008 12:07 PM
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Liz Johnson is the MAN!
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
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quote:
Liz Johnson is the MAN!
That dude can bowl.
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James Goulding
Moores Pro Shop
Ball Driller / Consultant
USBC Blogger
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The biggest issue would be if one made it to the round of 16 on both sides.
They would be scheduled to bowl a regular tournament match and a womens match the same time.
I assume she would have to withdraw from one or the other and give a bye.
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The biggest issue would be if one made it to the round of 16 on both sides.
They would be scheduled to bowl a regular tournament match and a womens match the same time.
I assume she would have to withdraw from one or the other and give a bye.
This is what I'm talking about, I think. They should have to choose one or the other, not be eligible for both.
If you want to bowl with the other ladies, that would DQ you from bowling the regular TQR and tournament. However, choosing to bowl the TQR and tournament should DQ you from bowling the womens series.
Problem with it like it is would be trying to explain why or how a woman just made the finals in the regular tournament ( if one did ) and still having a so called "womens series".
IMHO, having a special "womens series" is tantamount to saying you don't think the women can compete with the men in the first place. Creating the "womens series" is kind of like telling the ladies "Here is where you belong, not out ther competing with those big, strong guys". That's not considered too "P.C.", know what I mean?
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Edited on 12/3/2008 12:36 PM
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The Women's Series is an attempt to restart or replace the defunct PWBA.
The women who are exempt compete along side the men for qualifying and are not competing in both tournaments. Liz Johnson did not make it as exempt on the Women's Series, she is competing with the BIG boys and is not eligible for the Women's tournament.
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
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quote:
The Women's Series is an attempt to restart or replace the defunct PWBA.
The women who are exempt compete along side the men for qualifying and are not competing in both tournaments. Liz Johnson did not make it as exempt on the Women's Series, she is competing with the BIG boys and is not eligible for the Women's tournament.
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Just so people don't get confused, I should point out that Liz Johnson HAS been an alternate in Women's Series events when one or two of the exempt ladies did not enter.
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quote:
The Women's Series is an attempt to restart or replace the defunct PWBA.
The women who are exempt compete along side the men for qualifying and are not competing in both tournaments. Liz Johnson did not make it as exempt on the Women's Series, she is competing with the BIG boys and is not eligible for the Women's tournament.
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
TP,
Yes, I know what Liz is doing. What I am saying is this. Say she qualifies and makes the tounament. Not only that, but she actually does well enough to make it to the televised finals. She is that good, and well capable of doing this.
When they have the finals, how are you supposed to explain that here is this woman who is well able to compete with the men on a equal basis, then expect the "womens series" to have any validity at all? Wouldn't people question why there was a seperate "womens series" in the light of having a woman beating out most of the mens competitors? I mean, are the women competing in the "womens series" worse bowlers than her? Or do they just want to compete against "easier" competition? Or is this just some stupid "gimmick" to get women to watch bowling.
If you are going to have a "womens series" at all, then ALL the ladies should HAVE to compete there and not be eligible for the main tournament. If you are going to let them be eligible for the main tournament, you should do away with the "womens series", as it is then only a laughable facsimile of what it was originally meant to be.
I'm afraid if this scenario were to come to fruition, it would do the P.B.A. more harm than good. It would seem they were trying to seperate the truly "gifted" from the "inferior" competitors, and that they saw many of the female bowlers as "inferior" by having to have their own, "special" category.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Edited on 12/3/2008 2:11 PM
Edited on 12/3/2008 2:12 PM
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If Liz can bowl in the regular mens' event...can I bowl in the Womens Series...lol. My GF would kill me but it would be an experience!
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Should I, at the age of 26, be then allowed to bowl on the Senior Tour? That makes as much sense as the argument women shouldn't be allowed to bowl the men's tour, that men should be allowed to bowl the women's tour, etc.
They're trying to promote women's bowling, if Liz wants to bowl in the TQR, so be it, it's not like she finished dead last, she made it out into the Round of 64!
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Andrew Loose
"Technology is anything that's really cool that you don't know how it works, and if it breaks, you have to buy a new one!"
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naw....y'all got it all wrong!!!the "dude" that can bowl is michelle feldmen!!!!
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Go hard or go home!!!!!Bowl your best...ALWAYS!!!
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If they had a qualifier to include more than the 16 exempt ladies, I would agree with you. They don't which means any lady who wants to compete at this level must compete in the "Men's" PBA qualifying. She does not have an option to qualify with the Women, until that happens, a few women will compete in the "Men's."
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
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quote:
They're trying to promote women's bowling, if Liz wants to bowl in the TQR, so be it, it's not like she finished dead last, she made it out into the Round of 64!
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Andrew Loose
"Technology is anything that's really cool that you don't know how it works, and if it breaks, you have to buy a new one!"
Andrew,
I agree. Liz is a GREAT bowler. What I am saying is, if they want to bowl, then let them bowl in the TQR and tounament, just like the men do. Don't create a special event "womens series", or special division for them
If this "Special" series or division exists, then how do you try to explain that some women are good enough for the regular tour and some aren't? And then try to explain the logic in catering to the few women who want to make money bowling, but aren't good enough to compete on the regular tour, taking potential prize money out of the pockets of the regular tour players who ARE good enough?
All I am getting at ( and people seem to keep missing the point ) is that the "womens series" exists to highlight the most talented women bowlers. But, if the best ones are capable of competing with, and beating, the men on the regular tour, why have a "special" womens event?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. That is what the P.B.A. is trying to do. They need to either validate the "womens series" by having ALL competing women in it, or do away with it and let ALL the women compete in the TQR's and regular tournaments if they wish to bowl.
I, personally, would like to see the women get their own tour back and not have to be a "sideshow" to the P.B.A. circus.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
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I agree.
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If they want to do both... why not let them? Bowling is small enough of a niche sport that nobody (except you, Juggernaut) will care or even notice.
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If this "Special" series or division exists, then how do you try to explain that some women are good enough for the regular tour and some aren't? And then try to explain the logic in catering to the few women who want to make money bowling, but aren't good enough to compete on the regular tour, taking potential prize money out of the pockets of the regular tour players who ARE good enough?
The women paid $750 to compete for twelve spots, the 4 title winners from last season earned an automatic pass to exempt. I am not certain about this year, but I believe last year the USBC bankrolled at least in part the Women's Series. Also this year the women had to become PBA members, last year they did not require them to purchase their card. So they have put more money into the PBA this year than last.
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All I am getting at ( and people seem to keep missing the point ) is that the "womens series" exists to highlight the most talented women bowlers. But, if the best ones are capable of competing with, and beating, the men on the regular tour, why have a "special" womens event?
I don't think anyone is missing your point, some of us just don't agree with it and are stating why. You feel like the women have more opportunity than the men to compete at a high level. As I stated earlier, if they had as many women allowed to participate, an open qualifier for each tournament, then I would agree with you. They do not, making the "Men's" PBA the only option.
As far as the Women's Series featuring the BEST, with only 12 coming from the Tour Qualifiers you are not necessarily going to get all of the best. It is the best 12 over the 5 days of the US Women's Open/ Tour Qualifier that will be featured in the Women's Series. When and if they can grow the Women's Series into a full blown tour, then I can see them keeping everyone separate, but until then this is the best option.
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. That is what the P.B.A. is trying to do. They need to either validate the "womens series" by having ALL competing women in it, or do away with it and let ALL the women compete in the TQR's and regular tournaments if they wish to bowl.
Why do they have to do away with it. Consider it a step to growing a separate tour for the women and deal with the perceived unfairness that women can be in either tournament for the interim period. If a woman competes with the men and does not cash, is there a problem with her donating to the men? I think not, so if she happens to cash, more power to her.
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I, personally, would like to see the women get their own tour back and not have to be a "sideshow" to the P.B.A. circus.
On this we agree 100%. I was disgusted this past Sunday to hear them interview Malott through the first 5 frames of the Women's final. It was as if the women's bowling was just something to fill the picture.
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")